Lets talk Spring Load, Not the usual Spring Rate thread

[Dialcaliper]

I did get this back from Flatout suspension today -

To be fair, it does look like a good kit, but I don’t know of many people that have them on their cars to get an idea of what they’re like.

The B6 with the swift spec r springs could work out well, but I noticed that they’re the same rate front and back, so I’m not sure if it would make the car oversteer too much?

There’s not an issue with oversteer with the Swifts. Even the stock sway bar and rear beam, which are quite stiff for a stock vehicle dominate the understeer/oversteer balance of the car, doubly so if you add aftermarket bars. It takes a pretty severe spring rate imbalance to make a dent in the F/R roll stiffness and I do have some suspension calculations I’ve been working on to back up that statement.

 

[Rutschpartie]

There’s not an issue with oversteer with the Swifts. Even the stock sway bar and rear beam, which are quite stiff for a stock vehicle dominate the understeer/oversteer balance of the car, doubly so if you add aftermarket bars. It takes a pretty severe spring rate imbalance to make a dent in the F/R roll stiffness and I do have some suspension calculations I’ve been working on to back up that statement.

can you show them to us? would be very interesting for me

 

[Dialcaliper]

can you show them to us? would be very interesting for me

Hoping to - got busy at work and stalled out on working on it for a while so it’s a bit messy. When I get a chance I’ll come back to it.

 

[Rhys1983]

There’s not an issue with oversteer with the Swifts. Even the stock sway bar and rear beam, which are quite stiff for a stock vehicle dominate the understeer/oversteer balance of the car, doubly so if you add aftermarket bars. It takes a pretty severe spring rate imbalance to make a dent in the F/R roll stiffness and I do have some suspension calculations I’ve been working on to back up that statement.

Ah right. The same spring rates front and back always put me off them. It’s good to know that it won’t make much of a difference as it’s another option that I could look at. Although at the moment I think I’ll either keep the Eibach springs, or fit the slightly softer ‘16+ springs for a slightly softer ride.

 

[Rhys1983]

I did find out more info from Flatout suspension as well. The kit that they recommended to me was the GR40 which are inverted struts which run a 200/175 spring, but can be made slightly stiffer or slightly softer and use liner valved strut and springs which could be made to work at oem height or up to 30mm higher. The rear spring and strut are also divorced which is good.
They’re a rallycross set up so they’re made to work on uneven tarmac and off-road.
Thought you might be interested @M-Sport fan as they seem to fit your needs perfectly.
I might be tempted to get some if my current set up isn’t very good. I’m taking my car into the suspension expert who’s worked with F1 teams, WRC, LeMans and British rally at the end of the month and he’s going to assess everything and give his recommendations.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Maybe I will consider them once again, depending on their prices for each 'stage' of damper adjustability (none, 2 way, 3 way, and whether or not the 2 ways are of the usual 'all in one' type of adjustment, etc.).

Given that this car is my only ride, and it IS used in our salt/brine soup winters (NO fair weather garage queen here!), I wanted to avoid coil overs altogether, but if the price is right, and it checks all of the other boxes (like not requiring the car to be slammed, and maintaining the correct suspension geometries), I may have no other choice.

Let us know precisely what that suspension guy says/suggests, especially as it pertains to rough/broken up tarmac road suspensions.

 

[the duke]

^^^Maybe I will consider them once again, depending on their prices for each 'stage' of damper adjustability (none, 2 way, 3 way, and whether or not the 2 ways are of the usual 'all in one' type of adjustment, etc.).

Given that this car is my only ride, and it IS used in our salt/brine soup winters (NO fair weather garage queen here!), I wanted to avoid coil overs altogether, but if the price is right, and it checks all of the other boxes (like not requiring the car to be slammed, and maintaining the correct suspension geometries), I may have no other choice.

Let us know precisely what that suspension guy says/suggests, especially as it pertains to rough/broken up tarmac road suspensions.

I'm liking my drop-in B6s an pre-16 OEM springs. Id sufgest you do what I did and make a new assembled cartridge so it's a few bolts and the front pops right in.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm liking my drop-in B6s an pre-16 OEM springs. I'd suggest you do what I did and make a new assembled cartridge so it's a few bolts and the front pops right in.

I wanted a bit more spring rate than even the early springs offered, but if I do not/cannot go the coil over route, I will do either this, or the Swifts over B6es with a small front strut top spacer, and rear weight jackers on the spring if necessary.

 

[Rhys1983]

The B6 with either swift springs or standard springs would be a solid option that won’t cost too much.
The Flatout GR40 also sounds really promising but would cost a lot more at $3,380 and are actually designed for rallycross rather than low and stiff for track work like a lot of high end coilovers which is a good thing! I believe that they are only adjustable for height, camber and rebound and NOT rebound and compression in one like a lot of coilovers. I don’t mind this as long as the base tune is spot on.
I will keep you all updated as to what the expert says and to what set up I finally end up with!

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^I am guessing that being only rebound adjustable these are also NOT remote reservoir either, correct?

If I remember correctly, yes, it was the price (along with their reticence about being forthcoming with info) which turned me off to these in the first place, given that they (at that time at least) were closing in on half the co$t of the new 3 way/remote reservoir Reiger R2s, and the same, or even more than the price of a set of used but rebuilt/refurbished Reigers.

But if they really are a motorsport diameter piston/shaft, inverted damper, I guess one has to pay to play with something that strong.

 

[Rhys1983]

^^^I am guessing that being only rebound adjustable these are also NOT remote reservoir either, correct?

If I remember correctly, yes, it was the price (along with their reticence about being forthcoming with info) which turned me off to these in the first place, given that they (at that time at least) were closing in on half the co$t of the new 3 way/remote reservoir Reiger R2s, and the same, or even more than the price of a set of used but rebuilt/refurbished Reigers.

But if they really are a motorsport diameter piston/shaft, inverted damper, I guess one has to pay to play with something that strong.

I’m not sure if they have a remote reservoir? A set of refurbished tarmac reigers would be my first choice as they’re tried and tested, but it’s getting rarer and rarer to find a refurbished second hand set in good condition and even second hand ones are a lot more expensive now.

 

[tri-pedaler]

I'm liking my drop-in B6s an pre-16 OEM springs. Id sufgest you do what I did and make a new assembled cartridge so it's a few bolts and the front pops right in.

Just curious - Any reason to go with the B6s over Koni yellows?

 

[the duke]

Just curious - Any reason to go with the B6s over Koni yellows?

I didn't want to have to worry about messing with damper settings as I only hit the track a few times a year. Partly the PIA to remove the lower bolt and rotate the body on the Konis each time didn't interest me (We don't have an external knob). Also from what I've seen dyno'd Konis, they're a bit inconsistent part to part and if you want accuracy you really should have them dyno'd and assembled an entire matching batch, much like blueprinting.

Besides, my OEM dampers were so dead ANYTHING new was better.

 

[tri-pedaler]

I didn't want to have to worry about messing with damper settings as I only hit the track a few times a year. Partly the PIA to remove the lower bolt and rotate the body on the Konis each time didn't interest me (We don't have an external knob). Also from what I've seen dyno'd Konis, they're a bit inconsistent part to part and if you want accuracy you really should have them dyno'd and assembled an entire matching batch, much like blueprinting.

Besides, my OEM dampers were so dead ANYTHING new was better.

Makes sense for those needs.

Thinking of going with yellows so I can set to full soft in the rear when I put my winters on, then adjust for AX season. But I do wonder about build quality

 

[Fusion Works]

Minor update on this one. I ran the Stock ST spring crammed onto the B8 damper. It lowered the car a bit, not a whole lot compared to stock. Definitely not as low as with a proper lowering spring. I wasn't super impressed with the feel of the car on turn in. It felt lazy compared to my custom dampers and even the OE Ford dampers with the Crappy ST lowering springs I was running before. Not sure I would recommend this to anyone.
If you wanted a slight lowering effect and need dampers anyways, just get the B8s and bolt the stock springs on. It will require a spring compressor.

On another note. I took my rear damper apart and found a damaged divider piston which leaked nitrogen into the oil portion of the damper. That caused all kinds of issues. After replacing that and refilling and recharging, everything is great. Ride quality is substantially better. I am currently running 250/250 with 75lbs of rubbers jammed in the rear from Grid Life a couple of weekends ago at Barber. Also haven't hooked the front bar back up where I disconnected it.

I am going back to Barber at the end of August for SCCA TT and will probably be upping the front springs to 350-400 depending on what I have on the shelf and the rear spring rate to 450 and use spring rubbers to tune from there. Expect to have 50lbs of rubber in by the end of the first day. LOL