car feels slower after whoosh v3 install

[dhminer]

@Dialcaliper

remember that the 22.5 lb/min airflow was in 30 degree weather while the 21.5 was in 65-70 degree weather. This could cause the drop in mass airflow no ?

Charge temps matter more than ambient. What was the difference there?

 

[Stkid93]

@dhminer

In the stock intercooler run the charge temps started off at 40 degrees and hit 70 by the very end. In the v3 run it started at 68 and stayed there through the pull. But the mass airflow reading is calculated when the air is pulled through the intake correct by the mass airflow sensor? So charge temps shouldn’t matter for that.

 

[dhminer]

@dhminer

In the stock intercooler run the charge temps started off at 40 degrees and hit 70 by the very end. In the v3 run it started at 68 and stayed there through the pull. But the mass airflow reading is calculated when the air is pulled through the intake correct by the mass airflow sensor? So charge temps shouldn’t matter for that.

I’m not sure our cars use the MAF reading to adjust boost, timing, fuel. My understanding is the MAP on the intake manifold and the thermistor on the cold side charge pipe are what the ECU uses to make adjustments in addition to the O2 sensor, of course. Is it possible air is entering the intake tract somewhere after the MAF?

 

[oldedub]

I’m not sure our cars use the MAF reading to adjust boost, timing, fuel. My understanding is the MAP on the intake manifold and the thermistor on the cold side charge pipe are what the ECU uses to make adjustments in addition to the O2 sensor, of course. Is it possible air is entering the intake tract somewhere after the MAF?

This is consistent with my understanding, as well. The mass airflow rate value on the Accessport is calculated from other sensor data.

 

[oldedub]

@dhminer

In the stock intercooler run the charge temps started off at 40 degrees and hit 70 by the very end. In the v3 run it started at 68 and stayed there through the pull. But the mass airflow reading is calculated when the air is pulled through the intake correct by the mass airflow sensor? So charge temps shouldn’t matter for that.

I think I lost the plot a bit here.

Are you looking for a boost/vacuum leak? What is the actual question?

If you aren't using it already, datazap is very useful for reviewing datalogs.

 

[Stkid93]

@oldedub @dhminer

I’m just wondering if the reduction in boost and in mass airflow lb/min is an issue/what’s causing it. The pressure drop from the v3 easily explains the slight drop in boost.

so that really just leaves the mass airflow reduction. according to you guys, the new intercooler won’t affect the lb/min reading and neither will the air intake temps? So what would cause this? Again, we are talking about a 1 lb/min reduction and i only had 1 datalog to compare to. So it’s not exactly scientific. I would have liked to have a few datalogs for a bigger and more accurate sample size.

everything else is fine, afr, ignition corrections and timing, etc. i still have to post my datalogs for you guys

 

[Dialcaliper]

@Dialcaliper

remember that the 22.5 lb/min airflow was in 30 degree weather while the 21.5 was in 65-70 degree weather. This could cause the drop in mass airflow no ?

That could be related - I didn’t quite catch the second temp number from the original post (for some reason I thought he’d skipped to talking about charge air temperatures, not weather)

 

[oldedub]

@oldedub @dhminer

I’m just wondering if the reduction in boost and in mass airflow lb/min is an issue/what’s causing it. The pressure drop from the v3 easily explains the slight drop in boost.

so that really just leaves the mass airflow reduction. according to you guys, the new intercooler won’t affect the lb/min reading and neither will the air intake temps? So what would cause this? Again, we are talking about a 1 lb/min reduction and i only had 1 datalog to compare to. So it’s not exactly scientific. I would have liked to have a few datalogs for a bigger and more accurate sample size.

everything else is fine, afr, ignition corrections and timing, etc. i still have to post my datalogs for you guys

So there is no problem, but you're scrutinizing the hell out of two parameters, one of which is not directly measured, because they changed in a way that you did not expect after you swapped the intercooler?

I would advise unhooking the Accessport and putting it in the glove box until it's time to log for a tune revision or there is a problem to troubleshoot, if it's causing you any anxiety at all.

For real, though, throw some logs up on datazap if you want to nerd out on them and for sure do this if you want anyone else to nerd out on them or offer possible explanations for what you are seeing.

 

[Stkid93]

Update,

decided to do a jam reset and power is back, mass airflow reading is back up to 22.5. @oldedub

you are right I really shouldn’t have my accessport up every time I drive I just feel so naked without it

 

[Wolfsbora]

In all of the years I have been on a site, and the thousands of post I have read. The stock turbo in my opinion does not need upgraded hoses. The only hose I would recommend is the hot side charge pipe, because there is a baffle in it to help with noise. It could reduce air flow. @jeff Had one of the best builds on this site in my opinion he has a youtube channel that covers a lot. He no longer has the car he did a hose upgrade, and in his opinion it doesn't do a whole lot. He did get some power Increase but he did a few other things at the same time. He didn't even have his hot side charge pipe upgraded. He also has an upgraded turbo. https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/review-whoosh-intercooler-charge-pipe-kit.19343/

These cars in the American market are tuned off the MAP sensor. Not the MAF.
I have the mountune intercooler and I did notice a increase in performance even the wife noticed in the passenger seat, but I live in a hot climate.

I know I’m late on a response but here is a reference to my point. Here is what Jason from Dizzy recommends for his stage 2 tune. Upgraded hoses with an upgraded intercooler.

 

[Ford ST]

I know I’m late on a response but here is a reference to my point. Here is what Jason from Dizzy recommends for his stage 2 tune. Upgraded hoses with an upgraded intercooler.

I still do not agree, but you do you.

 

[Stkid93]

I think the upgraded hoses are mainly to help with them popping out under boost? Not so much for performance. Right? I can’t see you getting more than maybe 3 horsepower from the hoses unless you have a big turbo

 

[Dialcaliper]

I know I’m late on a response but here is a reference to my point. Here is what Jason from Dizzy recommends for his stage 2 tune. Upgraded hoses with an upgraded intercooler.

I would say upgraded clamps is the most important part of that statement. Maybe *new* hoses if the existing ones have a lot of miles on them (at which point the cost of silicone hoses isn’t much higher).

 

[Wolfsbora]

I still do not agree, but you do you.

You don’t have to agree but I proved my point. I never said they increase horsepower specifically but that professionals had recommended them to me when I bought my Whoosh V3 intercooler and aftermarket tunes. Jason’s power ratings in that chart are based on the upgrades that he tested and researched. Which means, to get the most out of that tune, aftermarket hoses and clamps were proven to be beneficial.

 

[DEss]

Which means, to get the most out of that tune, aftermarket hoses and clamps were proven to be beneficial.

Using that logic, so then are exhaust hangers

 

[New_Daily]

I think the upgraded hoses are mainly to help with them popping out under boost? Not so much for performance. Right? I can’t see you getting more than maybe 3 horsepower from the hoses unless you have a big turbo

There is a theoretical advantage in that high performance boost hoses are supposed to resist “growing” or ballooning out under boost as they are reinforced more than the stock hoses. Ballooning hoses would also increase pressure drop. But the degree to which this actually occurs is debatable and would very likely be much less than the difference due to an IC with a much larger internal volume.

 

[Wolfsbora]

Using that logic, so then are exhaust hangers

Not to be rude but that’s not at all a reasonable comparison. I’ll say it and show it again - to attain Jason at Dizzy’s stage 2 tunes, he lists hoses and clamps as a must. All of his tunes have been tested using various components. He narrowed them down to the essentials. Hoses and clamps being one of them. He’s more of an expert than 99% of us here. The attached pic is directly off of his website.

 

[oldedub]

Not to be rude but that’s not at all a reasonable comparison. I’ll say it and show it again - to attain Jason at Dizzy’s stage 2 tunes, he lists hoses and clamps as a must. All of his tunes have been tested using various components. He narrowed them down to the essentials. Hoses and clamps being one of them. He’s more of an expert than 99% of us here. The attached pic is directly off of his website.

To be fair, exhaust hangers are also on the list that you shared.

 

[dhminer]

Not to be rude but that’s not at all a reasonable comparison. I’ll say it and show it again - to attain Jason at Dizzy’s stage 2 tunes, he lists hoses and clamps as a must. All of his tunes have been tested using various components. He narrowed them down to the essentials. Hoses and clamps being one of them. He’s more of an expert than 99% of us here. The attached pic is directly off of his website.

That list shouldn't be thought of as the only way to do things. Just saying.

 

[Wolfsbora]

That list shouldn't be thought of as the only way to do things. Just saying.

I actually agree with you. But the original disagreement was that I was out of left field with my suggestion with multiple people pointing it out. I just wanted to show that there are experts that agree with me.

To be fair, exhaust hangers are also on the list that you shared.

You’re right.

There is a theoretical advantage in that high performance boost hoses are supposed to resist “growing” or ballooning out under boost as they are reinforced more than the stock hoses. Ballooning hoses would also increase pressure drop. But the degree to which this actually occurs is debatable and would very likely be much less than the difference due to an IC with a much larger internal volume.

This is exactly how it was explained to me by multiple people.