2 liter isntead of 1.6

[Stkid93]

Does anyone else think that ford should have used a de-tuned 2 liter EcoBoost in the fist instead of using the 1.6, While I love tuner 4 cylinders I have never really liked the trend of making smaller and smaller motors especially when it comes to performance cars. This engine is amazing for what it is, but it feels like a tuned up economy car motor and just seems too small. My previous 2 cars were the dodge neon srt4 with a 2.4 liter turbo and a Mazdaspeed 3 with the 2.3 liter turbo. So the little 1.6 just feels weak where the other motors didn't. And yes, I realize the point of this car is lightweight and track use, but using the 2 litre instead of the 1.6 only adds about 70 pounds, but the increased torque can really help you. When you get on the gas before the boost fully kicks in, the 1.6 has no torque without the turbo. And even with the turbo spooled the focus st still makes way more torque. i think if they detuned the 2 liter EcoBoost down to 230 horsepower 250 torque and put it in the fiesta st it would make the car that much better. Then if you wanted to tune it, you could get it up to 300 whp and 400 wheel torque on e30.

 

[SteveS]

No.

It's a subcompact. 2 liter engines are what goes in compacts and bigger cars.

 

[Jabbit]

The 2L Ecoboost seems sluggish to me compared to the 1.6.

 

[vivix]

The Focus ST is more in line with the SRT4 and MS3. We have the baby version.

Although they couldve hit the 200hp target in these cars with a mildly warmed up N/A 2.5 Duratec, which wouldve been interesting

 

[Stkid93]

interesting that jabbit finds the 2 liter more sluggish… In what way is it more sluggish? (Never driven a focus st) are you talking overall power? Turbo lag? From what I’ve read the 2 liter is far punchier because of the larger size it’s not so turbo dependent. Then when the turbo comes on, it feels like a large v6 or v8. I got my fist tuned on e30 and The 1.6 on boost just feels like a larger turbo 4 banger. At some point, displacement starts to have a huge affect

 

[Dpro]

A number of points to make here. First off the Fiesta ST was around before the Focus ST and has a storied small engine history in the UK and Europe. This car was not made or designed in the U.S. It never had the U.S. as its target market per se. So it was always along the lines of smaller car smaller engine. Plus the 2.0 liter ecoboost while being a timing chain engine vs our timing belt is not nearly as robust engine as the our 1.6 . Plus if they can get the numbers they are shooting for with the 1.6 which is lighter why put in a 2 liter believe it or not 70-100lbs can make a hell of a difference.
Oh and that liter in the FoST is a TQ Steer monster. Ya just no.

Oh sorry but while the FoST is fast it feels more like my BMW M3 inline six than a V8 . Oh and ya you want that kind of feel out your engine go hybrid or S280 turbo even on pump gas you will be grinning for days.

 

[Stkid93]

So none of you are even a little interested in what the car could have been like if they put the 2 liter in it? Imagine 300 whp with 400 wtq in this thing, plus not having to go hybrid turbo to get 300 wheel horsepower is huge.

 

[Dpro]

So none of you are even a little interested in what the car could have been like if they put the 2 liter in it? Imagine 300 whp with 400 wtq in this thing, plus not having to go hybrid turbo to get 300 wheel horsepower is huge.

Ford would not have done that with the car having a bigger brother. Though like I said the FiST‘s have a long history , so does previous incarnations of the Focus and non ST but performance versions. The Focus and the Fiesta were very popular cars in the UK and Europe Ford sold a shit ton of both. They did the the MK7 FiST at the same time they did the FoST . It would have invaded market share of the FoST sales wise to make an equally powered FiST as it was because the FiST is 400lbs lighter than a FoST it already could give a stock FoST a decent run.
Oh and ya I own a S280 powered FiST and can personally tell you that for a lot of drivers 300-400 whp in our cars is pretty crazy. I have hit 300whp and 340 wtq and I can tell you if it had come from the factory like that it would have been a much more expensive car due to all the upgrades in engine mounts , LSD , and whatnot to handle the extra power. You clearly have not ridden in or driven a bigger turbo FiST. Not saying they aren’t fun I love my car BUT ….. I had to do certain mods specifically for the sake of reining in TQ steer due to more power.
Stock the car is a reasonable trade off for little to no TQ steer in fact that is a lot of what attracted me to the car in the first place outside of the incredible handling. I test drove a FoST was not a nimble and did not feel as positive. It also TQ steered right off the showroom floor.
FiST on the other hand was fricken blast right off the floor. Fun , peppy point and shoot handling. Almost drove like a RWD drive car in comparison. I only upgraded my turbo to keep up with my buddies on the straights who already had upgraded their turbo’s.

 

[rallytaff]

I agree with Dave. My 'little beast' only has 197 whp and 271 ft/lbs of wheel torque and has been totally reliable throughout its life. It's even more fun than the Vauxhall Chevette HS2300 I had before coming to the States which I upgraded to 160hp was back in the early 80's through Peter Maiden in Birmingham. Only other mod was the Matter roll cage I installed while in Germany. By the way, I test drove the FOST and was not impressed by it. When I attended the Octane Academy, guys from the east coast were sorry they'd bought their cars after driving the Academy FISTS.

 

[gtx3076]

So none of you are even a little interested in what the car could have been like if they put the 2 liter in it? Imagine 300 whp with 400 wtq in this thing, plus not having to go hybrid turbo to get 300 wheel horsepower is huge.

They could also put the 2.3 EB in the Focus, and the 2.7 in the RS. These threads quickly devolve into one upping to the next bigger motor, until we end up with an LS-swap.

 

[Stkid93]

well that’s why I was talking about a de tuned 2 liter making maybe 220/250or even a little less. Plus not everyone wants such a small car. Even if the fist and focus had equal power a lot of people would still buy the focus just for the size of it. I don’t think it would have necessarily invaded on the focus’s market. I do understand the uk thing but they could have done different motors like they do now. The uk fiesta st gets a 1.5 3 banger. So they could have done the 2 liter for us (where we like bigger engines) and the 1.6 for uk( where they like smaller engines). Idk if it would ever be possible and yes the car probably would have been more money if they did it like that. But I think it would have been worth the extra money.
Really interesting discussion all around regardless

 

[FJ16]

well that’s why I was talking about a de tuned 2 liter making maybe 220/250or even a little less. Plus not everyone wants such a small car. Even if the fist and focus had equal power a lot of people would still buy the focus just for the size of it. I don’t think it would have necessarily invaded on the focus’s market. I do understand the uk thing but they could have done different motors like they do now. The uk fiesta st gets a 1.5 3 banger. So they could have done the 2 liter for us (where we like bigger engines) and the 1.6 for uk( where they like smaller engines). Idk if it would ever be possible and yes the car probably would have been more money if they did it like that. But I think it would have been worth the extra money.
Really interesting discussion all around regardless

Calling the Fiesta "such a small car" in relation to the Focus is kinda funny, the Focus is a whole foot longer and like 4 inches wider than the Fiesta. They were not going to do different motors because there was no reason to, 200hp is great for this car - see the myriad of glowing reviews for the fist and somewhat lack of for the Fost as proof... they accomplished exactly what they set out to do, in a compact and light package. Not to mention, just a few mods gets you to ~300hp; that's pretty reasonable.

 

[Stkid93]

There’s no question that the fist is an amazing car. Never questioned that, the question was more from a curiosity standpoint. Wondering if anyone else was curious about how the car would be if it had the 2 liter. Would it have destroyed the balance of the car and what the car is all about? Probably? But I still think it Would have been loads of fun, just in different ways. Would love to test drive a swapped fist just to see what it’s like.

 

[the duke]

Nah, I'm good.

 

[M-Sport fan]

They could also put the 2.3 EB in the Focus, and the 2.7 in the RS. These threads quickly devolve into one upping to the next bigger motor, until we end up with an LS-swap.

or....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCPZhfcYf30

 

[NOVA_Ranger]

Why stop there? Ford should have dropped a 5.0L Coyote engine in the Fiesta ST! Haha

 

[M-Sport fan]

A number of points to make here. First off the Fiesta ST was around before the Focus ST and has a storied small engine history in the UK and Europe. This car was not made or designed in the U.S. It never had the U.S. as its target market per se. So it was always along the lines of smaller car smaller engine. Plus the 2.0 liter ecoboost while being a timing chain engine vs our timing belt is not nearly as robust engine as the our 1.6 . Plus if they can get the numbers they are shooting for with the 1.6 which is lighter why put in a 2 liter believe it or not 70-100lbs can make a hell of a difference.
Oh and that liter in the FoST is a TQ Steer monster. Ya just no.

Oh sorry but while the FoST is fast it feels more like my BMW M3 inline six than a V8 . Oh and ya you want that kind of feel out your engine go hybrid or S280 turbo even on pump gas you will be grinning for days.

The Fiesta was designed to be Ford's "World Car", meaning that some (many??) of the markets it would be sold in severely penalize anything with an engine bigger than a 1.6 liter, surcharging them with crazy taxes.

So this is what it ended up with.

I am surprised that they even bothered to offer the 1.0 liter 3 banger, except that even despite being boosted, it falls into an even lower yet 'taxation category' with that displacement, therefore saving it's buyers that much more at the point of purchase, and potentially after that in fuel economy.

Remember, that as much as we complain about fuel co$t$, the Euros/rest of world would consider our high peaks (even the $6.00+ per gallon for premium in Cali at peak) of fuel prices to be giving the stuff away, by comparison, to what they pay.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Does anyone else think that ford should have used a de-tuned 2 liter EcoBoost in the fist instead of using the 1.6, While I love tuner 4 cylinders I have never really liked the trend of making smaller and smaller motors especially when it comes to performance cars. This engine is amazing for what it is, but it feels like a tuned up economy car motor and just seems too small. My previous 2 cars were the dodge neon srt4 with a 2.4 liter turbo and a Mazdaspeed 3 with the 2.3 liter turbo. So the little 1.6 just feels weak where the other motors didn't. And yes, I realize the point of this car is lightweight and track use, but using the 2 litre instead of the 1.6 only adds about 70 pounds, but the increased torque can really help you. When you get on the gas before the boost fully kicks in, the 1.6 has no torque without the turbo. And even with the turbo spooled the focus st still makes way more torque. i think if they detuned the 2 liter EcoBoost down to 230 horsepower 250 torque and put it in the fiesta st it would make the car that much better. Then if you wanted to tune it, you could get it up to 300 whp and 400 wheel torque on e30.

Have you seen what we didn't get here in NA? But in Europe they got the 3 pot 1.5 liter which has been pretty stellar from what i've seen

 

[Jabbit]

I have nothing additional to add other than I'd really like a Mazda 2 with manual everything to see if the Fiesta ST running gear would fit. You could probably get it down to 2,200 lbs. My Fiesta is rowdy at 2500 lbs, 300 more would be crazy.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I have nothing additional to add other than I'd really like a Mazda 2 with manual everything to see if the Fiesta ST running gear would fit. You could probably get it down to 2,200 lbs. My Fiesta is rowdy at 2500 lbs, 300 more would be crazy.

I don't know if it is just a visual 'optical illusion' or not, but every Mazda 2 I ever see looks/'appears to be' quite a bit smaller/more compact than our rides.

Are they different dimensionally?