Fiesta ST Lowering Springs and spring rate Thread

[Fusion Works]

Have you actually confirmed the Suspension Techniques spring rate? Last i talked with them it wasnt that high but they didnt seem 100% sure of what the actual rate was.

I know this is a bit old, but you are correct. ST was basically useless when asking about a real spring rate. They are not 240/250. I have been to lazy to measure the front, but the rear ST from my kit measured 111-117lbs/in. They are linear. I can measure the fronts, but I am pretty sure they are about the stock 170ishlbs based on the wire sizes and such.

 

[Fusion Works]

Gotta add an update to this. I measured the ST front springs from my set today. It measures out to an average rate of 130-135lbs. So not even a stock rate. Lame. Also a LONG way from their BS number of 244lbs.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Gotta add an update to this. I measured the ST front springs from my set today. It measures out to an average rate of 130-135lbs. So not even a stock rate. Lame. Also a LONG way from their BS number of 244lbs.

Yeah, I wish that someone/anyone (Hyperco, Eibach, Swift, Suspension Spring Services, etc.) made some stock ride height, but higher rate than factory L-I-N-E-A-R rate, factory diameter/spring mount size springs for this car, without having to force us to get a 500 set group buy together!!

 

[Fusion Works]

There seems to be nothing wrong with the Swifts. I could make a different spring top hat that could fix the "lowering portion" of the Shorter spring. You just swap it in and use the OE spring parts, boots, bumpstops, etc. However you are limited by the travel of the stock damper as to what can be done.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Do the B6es have the same/identical travel as the factory dampers, or is it even a minuscule bit more?

 

[Fusion Works]

Same as B4 they offer, so I would speculate they are the exact same length of travel.

 

[kevinatfms]

Yeah, I wish that someone/anyone (Hyperco, Eibach, Swift, Suspension Spring Services, etc.) made some stock ride height, but higher rate than factory L-I-N-E-A-R rate, factory diameter/spring mount size springs for this car, without having to force us to get a 500 set group buy together!!

Ground Control needs to get off their ass and make a kit for the FiST.

 

[Fusion Works]

What will that accomplish?

 

[kevinatfms]

What will that accomplish?

A coilover conversion for those that want to keep Koni Sports as the main damper.

 

[Fusion Works]

The draw back to that is the customer will pick too much spring rate and the damper won't have any control of the spring.

 

[kevinatfms]

The draw back to that is the customer will pick too much spring rate and the damper won't have any control of the spring.

They can put together packages for whatever lunatic spring rate people want up to and including Sports that have been revalved.

 

[Fusion Works]

I don't think Koni is doing revalves like they used to. Plus their revalves are still pretty soft. Had them do a set for a Focus several years ago. Sent them the shocks, they disassembled them, send them back I cut the perch off and welded on a stop ring to use a GC type coil over sleeve. Worked well, just they didn't have enough rebound to deal with 800lb springs.

Plus their "official rebuilder" couldn't refill the nitrogen in the damper when they refilled it. Said they didn't have the machine to mix the oil and the nitrogen like Koni does. "It will be fine without nitrogen". WTF.

 

[kevinatfms]

I don't think Koni is doing revalves like they used to. Plus their revalves are still pretty soft. Had them do a set for a Focus several years ago. Sent them the shocks, they disassembled them, send them back I cut the perch off and welded on a stop ring to use a GC type coil over sleeve. Worked well, just they didn't have enough rebound to deal with 800lb springs.

Plus their "official rebuilder" couldn't refill the nitrogen in the damper when they refilled it. Said they didn't have the machine to mix the oil and the nitrogen like Koni does. "It will be fine without nitrogen". WTF.

Dont know who you used but plenty guys out there revalving them in the racing community without issue to handle some insane spring rates. Koni may stop at a spring rate limit but last i checked they would revalve it to whatever you wanted. Fat Cat, Predator and a few others can revalve them to any rate.

Also, degassing the Sports was a big thing in the autocross world for a while. Dont know anyone who still does that?

 

[Fusion Works]

These were done by Precision Shock out in California. At the time they were one of three places that Koni authorized to rebuild their shocks. Koni is real protective about who gets their parts. There is no way Fat Cat and Predator are revalving the Koni twin tube emulsion type shocks. They may revalve the Koni Monotubes and that is a whole different game. Those are similar to Bilstein motorsport internals.

Yeah Degassisng isn't a thing anymore. Its a great way to create cavitation though.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Yeah, I wish that someone/anyone (Hyperco, Eibach, Swift, Suspension Spring Services, etc.) made some stock ride height, but higher rate than factory L-I-N-E-A-R rate, factory diameter/spring mount size springs for this car, without having to force us to get a 500 set group buy together!!

They wouldn’t sell well I would guess

If you really wanted it bad regardless of money, because the FiST uses flat face 2.5 ID rear and 3.0” ID front springs, you might be able to cobble together a set from coilover springs. The issue is that the stiffer springs don’t have a long enough free length for the droop, so you’d need tenders to keep the springs from falling out, and maybe change the isolators to hold the flat tender springs. A long enough spring (12”) would make the car sit way too high. All of which makes the cost shoot up.

Since I’ve been muddling through the ride height math for a coilover setup anyway, I looked through the catalogs, and while the helper springs are too thin when compressed, Eibach makes linear tender springs in 2.5” and 3.0”. The 50 lb/in tenders have a block height that might work with an 8” main spring, but only specific rates would work - you could make a 250F/225R set that might end up about stock ride height, and the stock or B6 dampers *might* be able to handle it. 225/200 might work, but will sit a bit lower.

The issue is that you’d be in on the order of $800 for the spring setup (using new Eibach/Swift/Hyperco springs) which is expensive and not that far from going to a coilover setup. On the plus side, Stock or B6 dampers are significantly better quality and will last a lot longer than some of the cheap coilovers.

It’s possible you could find cheaper offbrand or maybe used springs for less money, but an issue with offbrand and even some of the Eibach straight springs is they use thicker wire and without the OEM barrel shape, you might not have a lot of travel before coilbind. Swift/Hyperco are a little better there using thinner wire that isn’t actually round

I’m not sure you’ll get below the $500 group buy price even then (but you wouldn’t need a group buy). If the price is not a turnoff let me know and I can give a parts list of what you’d need

 

[M-Sport fan]

They can put together packages for whatever lunatic spring rate people want up to and including Sports that have been revalved.

This is what I had (a Ground Control/Eibach/Koni double adjustable Sport coil over conversion) on my LS1 Z28, and they were pretty good with the supplied spring rates, albeit probably not 'perfectly' dialed-in.

In any case MUCH better (on the street at least) than the LG Motorsport totally non adjustable for compression/rebound Bilstein full threaded body coil overs with Hyperco springs on them I had installed previous to the GC setup (at least partially due to the GC setup/Koni Sport damper mounts NOT having spherical bearing mounts on BOTH ends, front and back which knocked like jackhammers over even relatively smooth roads, like the LGM setup did ).

I was pressing GC to make up a setup for OUR rides, and they kept promising it would be out "In a few months, we just have other more popular platforms to get to FIRST" BS.
They kept stringing me along, and then finally admitted that they gave up on our platform after about 2 years of this, starting in mid 2016.

With our cars now being officially 'dead' in this land, we have no chance of them building a conversion.

 

[M-Sport fan]

They wouldn’t sell well I would guess

If you really wanted it bad regardless of money, because the FiST uses flat face 2.5 ID rear and 3.0” ID front springs, you might be able to cobble together a set from coilover springs. The issue is that the stiffer springs don’t have a long enough free length for the droop, so you’d need tenders to keep the springs from falling out, and maybe change the isolators to hold the flat tender springs. A long enough spring (12”) would make the car sit way too high. All of which makes the cost shoot up.

Since I’ve been muddling through the ride height math for a coilover setup anyway, I looked through the catalogs, and while the helper springs are too thin when compressed, Eibach makes linear tender springs in 2.5” and 3.0”. The 50 lb/in tenders have a block height that might work with an 8” main spring, but only specific rates would work - you could make a 250F/225R set that might end up about stock ride height, and the stock or B6 dampers *might* be able to handle it. 225/200 might work, but will sit a bit lower.

The issue is that you’d be in on the order of $800 for the spring setup (using new Eibach/Swift/Hyperco springs) which is expensive and not that far from going to a coilover setup. On the plus side, Stock or B6 dampers are significantly better quality and will last a lot longer than some of the cheap coilovers.

It’s possible you could find cheaper offbrand or maybe used springs for less money, but an issue with offbrand and even some of the Eibach straight springs is they use thicker wire and without the OEM barrel shape, you might not have a lot of travel before coilbind. Swift/Hyperco are a little better there using thinner wire that isn’t actually round

I’m not sure you’ll get below the $500 group buy price even then (but you wouldn’t need a group buy). If the price is not a turnoff let me know and I can give a parts list of what you’d need

THANKS!

But at this point I will either go the Spec Rs on the B6es with ~0.5" top mount spacers route, or just save up for 5+ years and get a (used?) set of the M-Sport Poland, tarmac R2T/Rally 4, remote reservoir, 3 way Reigers.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Stumbled across some internet hearsay - in case anyone cares, farther down, the base Fiesta spring rates are supposedly 131lb/in front, 108lb/in rear “according to Eibach”, at least back in 2011. Seems plausible.

https://www.fiestafaction.com/threads/2011-2012-fiesta-spec-b-suspension-kit.35091/page-3

 

[Fusion Works]

This would line up with the Suspension Techniques lowering spring rates. Plus the fact that they lower the ST too much because its lower to begin with.