Bosch Uprated Injectors

[Dpro]

Not at all.

Not exactly correct. While it won’t change spoil time it can affect Tq curves . If one is running a HpFp and injectors with E30 it will change the TQ band a bit as I have personally experienced running E30 with the S280 and it brought in more bottom end tq than the normal s280 pump gas tune. Have charts to prove it.
So ya there is a difference but part is up to the tuner and how he tunes it. If I drop my injectors in then Adam can tune it more and possibly smooth out the massive TQ bump that makes it kick like a hybrid when on E30. Though ya that does qualify as a power band change.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Not exactly correct. While it won’t change spoil time it can affect Tq curves . If one is running a HpFp and injectors with E30 it will change the TQ band a bit as I have personally experienced running E30 with the S280 and it brought in more bottom end tq than the normal s280 pump gas tune. Have charts to prove it.
So ya there is a difference but part is up to the tuner and how he tunes it. If I drop my injectors in then Adam can tune it more and possibly smooth out the massive TQ bump that makes it kick like a hybrid when on E30. Though ya that does qualify as a power band change.

If I’m understanding you, the difference is a function of the tune, not the injectors…, right?

 

[esp_martin]

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Not sure if anyone replied to you but all the posts here talk about the Jaguar injectors as the ones you want for the 1.6L engine. Bosch 62120 on Rock Auto (SKU 0261500298) is around $300 total and the ones on Whoosh are $500. Maybe those XDI injectors are what your tuner is comfortable with but I'm not sure if your tuner is worth the $1000 premium if that's the case.

EDIT: the XDI injectors seem to be Bosch (SHO instead of jaguar...which might be the same) injectors but sleeved for direct replacement. which you can do by yourself if you read around the forum. you just take off a bottom rubber or plastic piece from the OEM injectors and install them on the jaguar injectors before install. XDI DI-Injectors 4 Pack - Unleashed Tuning

 

[esp_martin]

Key word is “potential” in their ad description, doesn’t mean it’s been done or that they are going to do. But if someone’s build is requiring that capacity this may have the potential. That conclusion may be based on math and their experience.

I don't think they're knocking the 500bhp claim in a vacuum. It just doesn't make sense that the claim is it has 125bhp more potential on gasoline vs e30. If the company is claiming 500bhp on gas they better be able to get more than 500bhp on e30. *Unless* the claim is based on race gas.

 

[jeffreylyon]

I don't think they're knocking the 500bhp claim in a vacuum. It just doesn't make sense that the claim is it has 125bhp more potential on gasoline vs e30. If the company is claiming 500bhp on gas they better be able to get more than 500bhp on e30. *Unless* the claim is based on race gas.

I think that they're saying that the pump flows enough gas for a theoretical 500HP engine. E85 has about 75% of the energy than gasoline so, given the same fluid flow, an engine fueled by E85 is going to make less power than an engine fueled by gasoline.

 

[esp_martin]

I think that they're saying that the pump flows enough gas for a theoretical 500HP engine. E85 has about 75% of the energy than gasoline so, given the same fluid flow, an engine fueled by E85 is going to make less power than an engine fueled by gasoline.

that's a fair point i hadn't thought about. thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dpro]

If I’m understanding you, the difference is a function of the tune, not the injectors…, right?

the difference is the function of the Tune yes… which can also be affected by adding injectors.

My E30 tune is effectively a base E30 tune because it cannot be tuned farther without minimum of injectors with this Turbo due to the flow rate of this Turbo.

With injectors alone I would pick up another 30-40 whp dyno proven by Adam and shown In Wes’s own charts for his car. Effectively altering the power and tq band to a certain extent . In Wes’s chart you see that Adam was able to tune the excessive TQ bump my base tune exhibits out to a more even steady rise bump that is broader.

 

[Alvzl14]

I'm going to go ahead and pre order the norstum hpfp.

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[Dialcaliper]

https://nostrum.mybigcommerce.com/1-6l-ecoboost-fiesta-st-high-pressure-fuel-pump-kit/

500WHP on Gasoline, but only 350WHP on E85?

They’re basically comparing potential volume flow of race gas with E85, with a simple limit of total fuel volume.

In addition to being less energy dense, E85 requires a much higher volume of fuel at the same lambda ratio.

put a different way, with a limited volume of fuel, the leaner AFR of race gas means a lot more air - you will be supporting a much more bonkers setup of turbo/boost/tune than with the E85.

Its not at all like comparing the same turbo setup and supporting mods and swapping fuel types.

To put it in perspective, you can top out that E85 number on a Hybrid turbo, but the same volume of pure race gas will support a much more extreme big turbo setup. E30/40/50 is great in our engines because it’s somewhere in between - you can go farther on lower budget mods given the limitations of the direct injection fueling system and the limited choices in stock/upgrade injectors and HPFP.

On a standard port injected engine (or using Aux fuel) you can go E85 and just toss in a tank pump and massive plug and play 2150cc injectors and call it a day without being anywhere near fuel limited.

If you’re not fuel limited, then yes, comparing the same turbo and supporting engine mods with E85 in many cases is capable of slightly more power than 100oct race gas.

If you’re still thinking in the pump gas/E30 realm, ethanol makes more power because your setup is usually limited by heat and timing/knock, and not fuel flow or even airflow since you can just increase boost and add more sauce.

 

[AzNightmare]

Not sure if anyone replied to you but all the posts here talk about the Jaguar injectors as the ones you want for the 1.6L engine. Bosch 62120 on Rock Auto (SKU 0261500298) is around $300 total and the ones on Whoosh are $500. Maybe those XDI injectors are what your tuner is comfortable with but I'm not sure if your tuner is worth the $1000 premium if that's the case.

EDIT: the XDI injectors seem to be Bosch (SHO instead of jaguar...which might be the same) injectors but sleeved for direct replacement. which you can do by yourself if you read around the forum. you just take off a bottom rubber or plastic piece from the OEM injectors and install them on the jaguar injectors before install. XDI DI-Injectors 4 Pack - Unleashed Tuning
View attachment 52144

What's the actual YouTube link? I can't tell if that's I or l or what in that url. No video is found when I manually type it out.

 

[Dpro]

What's the actual YouTube link? I can't tell if that's I or l or what in that url. No video is found when I manually type it out.

His estimate on the Rockauto price is off they are exactly what I am selling my unused 30% larger ones that I purchased from RockAuto for $333 not $300! Oh and they are Bosch!
Bosch is the OE for Jaguar please guys get your info straight!

 

[esp_martin]

His estimate on the Rockauto price is off they are exactly what I am selling my unused 30% larger ones that I purchased from RockAuto for $333 not $300! Oh and they are Bosch!
Bosch is the OE for Jaguar please guys get your info straight!

@Dpro yeah i made my post before you put your injectors up for sale and i agree with everything you wrote but i'm not sure where you're thinking we're not getting our info straight about.

@Alvzl14 was just asking about xdi injectors and i was telling him don't bother because based on the description they're Bosch "SHO" injectors on XDI's site. Said I didn't know the difference between SHO and Jaguar Bosch injectors but they're probably the same so just go with the known Jaguar injectors.

and $300 was a ballpark figure (and if $333 is the exact cost then i was pretty close); i was just giving him a heads up that he shouldn't be paying $1500

 

[esp_martin]

What's the actual YouTube link? I can't tell if that's I or l or what in that url. No video is found when I manually type it out.

that youtube URL is not mine. that's a screenshot of XDI's site page describing their injectors. i didn't go to to it so i have no idea if it works or not.

i was posting the screenshot for proof that XDI states they're Bosch "SHO" injectors which I'm assuming means Ford SHO (maybe Taurus?) injectors. Since they're Bosch injectors, his tuner should be fine tuning Jaguar Bosch injectors so he should just get those which are $333 on Rock Auto or get them from @Dpro as he's selling them right now on the For Sale page.

 

[Dpro]

@Dpro yeah i made my post before you put your injectors up for sale and i agree with everything you wrote but i'm not sure where you're thinking we're not getting our info straight about.

@Alvzl14 was just asking about xdi injectors and i was telling him don't bother because based on the description they're Bosch "SHO" injectors on XDI's site. Said I didn't know the difference between SHO and Jaguar Bosch injectors but they're probably the same so just go with the known Jaguar injectors.

and $300 was a ballpark figure (and if $333 is the exact cost then i was pretty close); i was just giving him a heads up that he shouldn't be paying $1500

I was just trying to be clear for the sake of clarity, because when stuff gets posted that is not quite correct it creates confusion or even looks incorrect. One would be well the XDI say they are this but the Rock auto are that or they are not OE Jaguar I can’t trust them type scenario’s . You see this type of stuff all the time in the automotive aftermarket.
In my sake it would be the guy p.m.ing me saying you can get them for $300 not $333 because he saw a post saying that. Now that has not happened this time but when I have sold things in the past that very type of thing has happened based on peoples guess of the cost and saying that it could be acquired for that and posting it.
Call this a jaded statement but a lot of prospective buyers will resort to any edge they can find to try and negotiate the asking price down.

 

[koozy]

I apologize if that post misconstrued what you said it was late when I posted. I was just trying to be clear for clarity.

senioritis is real.lol

 

[Dpro]

senioritis is real.lol

lol I edited that post.

 

[AzNightmare]

that youtube URL is not mine. that's a screenshot of XDI's site page describing their injectors. i didn't go to to it so i have no idea if it works or not.

Do you have the link of where you took that screenshot so I can check out the video?

 

[esp_martin]

Do you have the link of where you took that screenshot so I can check out the video?

google XDI injectors and it'll be one of the first hits you get. it's on their XDI injector page. i didn't save a link and don't feel like going back to find the page.

 

[esp_martin]

I was just trying to be clear for the sake of clarity, because when stuff gets posted that is not quite correct it creates confusion or even looks incorrect. One would be well the XDI say they are this but the Rock auto are that or they are not OE Jaguar I can’t trust them type scenario’s . You see this type of stuff all the time in the automotive aftermarket.
In my sake it would be the guy p.m.ing me saying you can get them for $300 not $333 because he saw a post saying that. Now that has not happened this time but when I have sold things in the past that very type of thing has happened based on peoples guess of the cost and saying that it could be acquired for that and posting it.
Call this a jaded statement but a lot of prospective buyers will resort to any edge they can find to try and negotiate the asking price down.

I get it. The For Sale thread is pretty weird. In my opinion, many sellers here set an unrealistic price floor on their used parts. Like as in, "been on my car of 3+ years. significant wear. i want half what i paid when new".

I can understand there's a flip side where buyers here are trying to haggle for an unrealistic price ceiling cause they "heard about a price from someone somewhere".

p.s. I have bought all of my bracing/wheels from people on this forum parting out their Fiestas so overall I have nothing but good things to say about the For Sale thread and the people selling their parts. And I get it, might as well hold out for the highest bidder if you don't have a time/money crunch and need it now. I'm not knocking anyone who tries to set a high price and stick to it. It's your stuff and you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[initiation]

What's the final verdict on stock Jaguar seals vs. Puma double sealed? Do the unmodified injectors seal ok or nah?