Fiesta ST Intercooler Info Thread

[danbfree]

Basically if you drill holes in your bumper crossbar as well it would make a difference. The solid part is right in front of the bumper bar which is why Ford did not leave the part of that honeycomb drilled out.

Isn't it counter intuitive to drill holes into a crossbar that is there for the sole purpose of keeping you safe? Do you need lower temps that bad?

Guys, don't cut holes in safety devices.

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I see the one bar going across the radiator, I would think that just doing a few rows of holes in the solid lower grill itself should help, unlike that cross bar it's almost certain those grill solid sections are just to help with aerodynamics/MPG's and certainly wouldn't hurt that much drilling those out but probably wouldn't think drilling holes in a safety bar would be a good idea, and the additional grill air itself will work it's way right around that bar anyway...

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[Dpro]

Isn't it counter intuitive to drill holes into a crossbar that is there for the sole purpose of keeping you safe? Do you need lower temps that bad?

Guys, don't cut holes in safety devices.

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Oh I dom’t disagree with you. I would not do it. Though some would and I have seen it done for weight reasons as well. I was just mentioning the fact that to really take advantage airflow wise it would be the way.
Seen track car guys do this thing all day long on different models of cars. Mainly for weight reasons as a lot of crash bars on cars were stamped boxed steel.

To surmise.....
Would I do it personally to my car? Ah no. Lol.

Do I recommend it? Ah no.

Was I recommending it in my post? Ah no.

Was I mentioning that to really take advantage of the cutting out the boxed in honeycomb of our grills that it would , ah yes again as a matter of fact not recommendation.

The cutting out of the Honeycomb of our grills has been gone over in the past, my conclusion was you did not pick up enouh airflow by doing it due to the location of the stock crashbar.

Some have even gone as far as a custom aftermarket crashbar and then done it. Would the aftermarket crashbar be safe? One wonders, is it ok for track? Usually and depending on if its meant to be competive i.e. class wise or just a fun track day car.
Not really meant to be driven on the street.

 

[danbfree]

Oh I dom’t disagree with you. I would not do it. Though some would and I have seen it done for weight reasons as well. I was just mentioning the fact that to really take advantage airflow wise it would be the way.
Seen track car guys do this thing all day long on different models of cars. Mainly for weight reasons as a lot of crash bars on cars were stamped boxed steel.

To surmise.....
Would I do it personally to my car? Ah no. Lol.

Do I recommend it? Ah no.

Was I recommending it in my post? Ah no.

Was I mentioning that to really take advantage of the cutting out the boxed in honeycomb of our grills that it would , ah yes again as a matter of fact not recommendation.

The cutting out of the Honeycomb of our grills has been gone over in the past, my conclusion was you did not pick up enouh airflow by doing it due to the location of the stock crashbar.

Some have even gone as far as a custom aftermarket crashbar and then done it. Would the aftermarket crashbar be safe? One wonders, is it ok for track? Usually and depending on if its meant to be competive i.e. class wise or just a fun track day car.
Not really meant to be driven on the street.

FWIW, I definitely understood where you were coming from, but that's really some kind of safety "crash bar"? It seems like it's just a radiator flex support or something, not sure how that little bar would help in a crash, hmmm, but what do I know, maybe I'll just drill a couple of rows in the grill from the bottom then so a bit more air can pass through maybe... I am just wondering if a Dremel/rotary style tool would leave nice clean surfaces behind so it doesn't look terrible...

 

[koozy]

that little bar is welded to the bumper. that little bar also holds the airbag sensors. I personally wouldn't mess with that little bar, not worth the trouble.

 

[danbfree]

that little bar is welded to the bumper. that little bar also holds the airbag sensors. I personally wouldn't mess with that little bar, not worth the trouble.

Ahh, I saw sensors on each end of it while examining it after this discussion and thought "Are those temp sensors or what?"... Guess I know now... But this pic also shows the main bumper support is right below that too, hence why they may as well have sealed that whole lower part of the grill, it's all solid bumper there anyway!

Now does someone have a pic like this for how the whole IC, turbo, DV, symposer and all that work together? I have gotten myself confused trying to figure it all out... I'm trying to determine if I want to do a BOV/DV that deletes the symposer or just replace DV with GFB DV+ since I plan to stay recirc anyway...

 

[deadlast]

FWIW, I definitely understood where you were coming from, but that's really some kind of safety "crash bar"? It seems like it's just a radiator flex support or something, not sure how that little bar would help in a crash, hmmm, but what do I know, maybe I'll just drill a couple of rows in the grill from the bottom then so a bit more air can pass through maybe... I am just wondering if a Dremel/rotary style tool would leave nice clean surfaces behind so it doesn't look terrible...

Yes, that bar transfers the energy of the head on collision to the frame around you. Drilling holes in it to any degree will substantially weaken the structure and it will not do its job of protecting all occupants. Those bumper crash bars are one of the main things that separate USDM from EUDM.

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[danbfree]

that little bar is welded to the bumper. that little bar also holds the airbag sensors. I personally wouldn't mess with that little bar, not worth the trouble.

Yes, that bar transfers the energy of the head on collision to the frame around you. Drilling holes in it to any degree will substantially weaken the structure and it will not do its job of protecting all occupants. Those bumper crash bars are one of the main things that separate USDM from EUDM.

Thanks for explaining... although not obvious to those of us who haven't researched it before I guess I can now see how that bar would help transfer energy of the impact to the rest of the frame... Initial though was "Geez, why did they use a solid metal bar to just hold the air bag sensors at the right spot..." hehe...

 

[koozy]

Now does someone have a pic like this for how the whole IC, turbo, DV, symposer and all that work together? I have gotten myself confused trying to figure it all out... I'm trying to determine if I want to do a BOV/DV that deletes the symposer or just replace DV with GFB DV+ since I plan to stay recirc anyway...

good luck.

 

[LaserWhisperer]

Ahh, I saw sensors on each end of it while examining it after this discussion and thought "Are those temp sensors or what?"... Guess I know now... But this pic also shows the main bumper support is right below that too, hence why they may as well have sealed that whole lower part of the grill, it's all solid bumper there anyway!

Now does someone have a pic like this for how the whole IC, turbo, DV, symposer and all that work together? I have gotten myself confused trying to figure it all out... I'm trying to determine if I want to do a BOV/DV that deletes the symposer or just replace DV with GFB DV+ since I plan to stay recirc anyway...

So, a blow off valve and a diverter valve ARE NOT the same thing. Neither have anything to do with the symposer in stock form.

A DV, or diverter valve, redirects or "diverts" unused boost pressure back into your intake system via a small, maybe 3/4" slot machined into the turbo housing (at least on our turbos) located in the piston bore where the DV is mounted. DVs are quieter in operation by design, although if you have an open element air intake it will be louder. It redirects the pressure when the solenoid is commanded open, and snaps closed when under load. See the DV+ video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgXspDfI08&t=1s

A BOV, or Blow Off Valve, vents the same unused boost pressure to atmosphere when commanded open, whether via electronic solenoid or vacuum actuated (in which case, you'll need a few other parts).
A 50/50 set up is exactly that, half recirc and half VTA.

The sound symposer, is simply a box with a rubber diaphragm which vibrates when exposed to vacuum. Useless and detracts from the true experience of the car, IMO.

All that said, there is also the option to remove the complete DV assembly from the turbo housing, remove the symposer assembly, install a block-off plate and CEL defender (at the turbo), install a vacuum reference adapter (usually at MAP sensor), and install a BOV into the hole where the symposer used to live.

There are also options available to install a BOV on charge pipes (CP-E) and on a few intercoolers (none of the factory fit options from most manufacturers have this option).

All in all, the DV+ is very good and robust. Some people experience some trouble with it, I personally have had it installed for 40k+ miles and 2 years of daily driving without issue.
Ron@Whoosh usually has the best prices for the DV+ too!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Some have even gone as far as a custom aftermarket crashbar and then done it. Would the aftermarket crashbar be safe? One wonders, is it ok for track? Usually and depending on if its meant to be competive i.e. class wise or just a fun track day car.
Not really meant to be driven on the street.

I would probably trust an aftermarket, welded tubular (DHM/DaVinci) crash bar over a 'swiss cheesed' factory bar, but your insurance company (in a claim involving the front clip, or ANY medical claims) most likely would NOT 'take kindly' to EITHER!

 

[koozy]

several with DHM crash bar with Race Intercooler setup have been involved in front end accidents, none were denied by their insurance. of course your experience may differ.

 

[M-Sport fan]

several with DHM crash bar with Race Intercooler setup have been involved in front end accidents, none were denied by their insurance. of course your experience may differ.

Good to know, especially if these occurred in Cali!

 

[danbfree]

good luck.

Well, seriously, that's a start.. never seen a pic like that before, it's actually helpful!

 

[danbfree]

So, a blow off valve and a diverter valve ARE NOT the same thing. Neither have anything to do with the symposer in stock form.

A DV, or diverter valve, redirects or "diverts" unused boost pressure back into your intake system via a small, maybe 3/4" slot machined into the turbo housing (at least on our turbos) located in the piston bore where the DV is mounted. DVs are quieter in operation by design, although if you have an open element air intake it will be louder. It redirects the pressure when the solenoid is commanded open, and snaps closed when under load. See the DV+ video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgXspDfI08&t=1s

A BOV, or Blow Off Valve, vents the same unused boost pressure to atmosphere when commanded open, whether via electronic solenoid or vacuum actuated (in which case, you'll need a few other parts).
A 50/50 set up is exactly that, half recirc and half VTA.

The sound symposer, is simply a box with a rubber diaphragm which vibrates when exposed to vacuum. Useless and detracts from the true experience of the car, IMO.

All that said, there is also the option to remove the complete DV assembly from the turbo housing, remove the symposer assembly, install a block-off plate and CEL defender (at the turbo), install a vacuum reference adapter (usually at MAP sensor), and install a BOV into the hole where the symposer used to live.

There are also options available to install a BOV on charge pipes (CP-E) and on a few intercoolers (none of the factory fit options from most manufacturers have this option).

All in all, the DV+ is very good and robust. Some people experience some trouble with it, I personally have had it installed for 40k+ miles and 2 years of daily driving without issue.
Ron@Whoosh usually has the best prices for the DV+ too!

Ugh, now I feel guilty for exaggerating my lack of knowledge, I did know most of this just a little confusion on which direction I should go, but thanks for all the detail in one post to clarify! So someone is offering me a Synchronic universal BOV with required adapters that can be mounted in the Symposer spot with choice to go with recirc or VTA. From there, he said I could either just unplug the stock DV, I could have my tune changed to block the code it throws or was told I could leave it connected, that it won't interfere with the vacuum operation of the BOV... But considering that I'd probably stay recirc anyway, I'm definitely leaning towards just going the DV+ route, but also heard the BOV on Symposer spot was actually an easier install... hmmm. I do know I don't mind the Symposer as I only have a drop in that does give me some stock DV release sound anyway, but would want exhaust mods to get more natural feedback before I just delete it... I personally think it gets a lot of unnecessary hate from people who don't even have any exhaust mods to hear what their car is doing, but I digress, it comes down to personal choice to keep the kazoo box or not, heh...

 

[deadlast]

Thanks for explaining... although not obvious to those of us who haven't researched it before I guess I can now see how that bar would help transfer energy of the impact to the rest of the frame... Initial though was "Geez, why did they use a solid metal bar to just hold the air bag sensors at the right spot..." hehe...

Just want you to be safe. Not worth a few degrees off your coolant temp.

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[Jerickson88]

I would love to use a much larger core for my FMIC when I upgrade, but I feel that Cobb has cornered the market on bolt on effectiveness. Maybe they aren’t “top level performance” like a DHM race, but to fully bolt to a stage 3 using their stuff, you’ll have a well rounded daily that probably won’t puke before 100k

I know me and if I go extreme on one I’ll be extreme on another and end up with a blown motor and a car payment.

 

[M-Sport fan]

but I feel that Cobb has cornered the market on bolt on effectiveness. Maybe they aren’t “top level performance” like a DHM race, but to fully bolt to a stage 3 using their stuff, you’ll have a well rounded daily that probably won’t puke before 100k

The very same could be said for the Mountune 'stage' packages as well.

I know me and if I go extreme on one I’ll be extreme on another and end up with a blown motor and a car payment.

WHY I will not even consider going to a hybrid/BT setup until this car is paid off FULLY.
(I don't have the coin like some on here do, to be 'fickle', jaded, or restless/bored, and drop this car like a white hot rivet for the next 'big thing' hot hatch from Japan/Korea coming down the pike, even after throwing BIG coin at it with HEAVY, extensive mods. )

 

[GotVic]

WHY I will not even consider going to a hybrid/BT setup until this car is paid off FULLY.

Ding, ding, ding! Winner, winner chicken dinner!

 

[stascom]

Initial though was "Geez, why did they use a solid metal bar to just hold the air bag sensors at the right spot..." hehe...

Because you're not talking about the same bar.

 

[danbfree]

Because you're not talking about the same bar.

Well, it's the one that goes across the front of the radiator behind the grill... noticed there were sensors on each end of it and someone had said earlier that's what they were...