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Fiesta ST Intercooler Info Thread
- Thread starter rodmoe
- Start date
- Tags fiesta st intercooler fiesta st intercooler review fiesta st intercoolers
![[twothumb]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_twothumbs.gif "Two Thumbs [twothumb]"){kind=icon}
![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
) to get the cp-e, and Mountune hose kit installed.don't need a manual. the cp e directions have only one problem. the bottom lip piece is held on with three bolts. the middle plastic support piece needs to come off completely. it will stab the center of the new intercooler.
....make it a weekend project. bumper cover off, new cooler in place saturday. Sunday reassemble. just saying
....make it a weekend project. bumper cover off, new cooler in place saturday. Sunday reassemble. just saying
^^^EXCELLENT video, as usual, Brian!
GREAT points, some of which no one else it seems has even considered yet (condensation).
I also am more than a little paranoid about blocking too much of the radiator, whether the almost inadequate factory unit, OR higher capacity for heat dissipation aftermarket, with a giganormous IC, even if it is a tube and fin type which supposedly flows more (now extra HEATED, remember!) air through it.
GREAT points, some of which no one else it seems has even considered yet (condensation).
I also am more than a little paranoid about blocking too much of the radiator, whether the almost inadequate factory unit, OR higher capacity for heat dissipation aftermarket, with a giganormous IC, even if it is a tube and fin type which supposedly flows more (now extra HEATED, remember!) air through it.
Thanks M-Sport Fan!
I am still running comparisons, but so far, it seems that my oil temp has come down a few degrees at the end of my commute. Pretty sure the coolant temp would also drop a few as well. I normally idle at the end of my commute until the oil temp reaches 189'F and then shut down. It usually takes 30 seconds or so to bring the oil temp down under 190'F, but this morning it was already in the 180's when I arrived. Now, it was a few degrees cooler this morning. I still need more testing, but the Mountune intercooler surely keeps the charge temp more consistent with less spikes under boost, but also seems to flow more air to the radiator as well. Looking at the open area between the tubes compared to the factory one, this would indeed indicate there is some truth to it. The other day I saw a ST online with a massive intercooler, big mouth intake, and Hella horns installed. I bet the effective area of the radiator was about the size of an 8 x 10 photo. I really think putting in a big intercooler and a bunch of stuff in front of the radiator is just asking for overheating issues. There is also overcooling the air and getting condensation. That is why the RS used a block-off plate. Too much cooling and condensation inside the system.
I am still running comparisons, but so far, it seems that my oil temp has come down a few degrees at the end of my commute. Pretty sure the coolant temp would also drop a few as well. I normally idle at the end of my commute until the oil temp reaches 189'F and then shut down. It usually takes 30 seconds or so to bring the oil temp down under 190'F, but this morning it was already in the 180's when I arrived. Now, it was a few degrees cooler this morning. I still need more testing, but the Mountune intercooler surely keeps the charge temp more consistent with less spikes under boost, but also seems to flow more air to the radiator as well. Looking at the open area between the tubes compared to the factory one, this would indeed indicate there is some truth to it. The other day I saw a ST online with a massive intercooler, big mouth intake, and Hella horns installed. I bet the effective area of the radiator was about the size of an 8 x 10 photo. I really think putting in a big intercooler and a bunch of stuff in front of the radiator is just asking for overheating issues. There is also overcooling the air and getting condensation. That is why the RS used a block-off plate. Too much cooling and condensation inside the system.
^^^Yes, and some even have MORE blocking the radiator than that, the humongous IC, horns, BIG MOUTH, PLUS; a light bar, and Mishi oil cooler*!! ![[crazyeye]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_eyecrazy.gif "Crazy Eye [crazyeye]")
Then they wonder WHY their factory radiator cannot keep up in 100*F+ ambient temps. LOL
*Which is why I would like to find another location for an oil to air cooler than what everyone currently uses.
Then they wonder WHY their factory radiator cannot keep up in 100*F+ ambient temps. LOL
*Which is why I would like to find another location for an oil to air cooler than what everyone currently uses.
It flows more air to the rad because its a tube and fin. It allows more air through but doesn't shed heat as efficiently. Condensation is only a problem in colder climates even then its rare.
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/
Which for me, works just fine. I worry about condensation in the stock intercooler in the winter when the charge temps are in the single digits. I won't run the Mountune intercooler in the winter as it will just get damaged from all the stones/sand/salt/ice that hammers the front of my car and I don't need any additional cooling.
From Ken @ Mountune original post: http://fiestast.net/threads/intercoolers-which-is-better-black-or-silver-tube-fin-or-bar-plate.2021/
Since you asked.
As you more than likely know the only real choice for any inter-cooler is the extruded tube and fluxed fin arrangement.
The main point worth noting is that bar and plate cores are designed for use in oil heaters and other industrial applications and tube and fin cores are designed for air heat transfer.
The low cost option primarily used is the bar and plate arrangement which is extremely cost effective but has the added penalty of weight, poor heat transfer from the external ambient air cooling source and very high pressure drop internally from its core design. The bar and plate inter-cooler matrix tempts the user into thinking they have purchased a road usable product because it performs extremely well for short periods of time typically on dynos. The mass of the unit is the key to its ability to give good air charge temperatures, however once warmed up it is very difficult for the bar and plate core to dissipate this heat. The other issue with bar and plate inter-coolers are the matrix core density which hinders across core airflow (ambient side). This causes cooling issues for any other radiators or cooling requirements packaged behind it. In other words you get great air charge temperature reduction on a dyno, but the engine temperature sky rockets as the radiator can't get enough cooling because its behind the intercooler.
The advantage of a tube and fin unit is that it has good heat transfer properties with low weight and low pressure drop across its core. They work much better than any other type of intercooler core. They also allow a higher quantity of air to flow across the outer of the core matrix (ambient) and onto other cooling items mounted behind it like the radiator. This is of particular advantage for road cars as most cooling packs include at least three/four items stacked all requiring airflow. The internal design also helps with reducing pressure drop across the core and this in turn allows a much larger core for a given pressure drop. The only real disadvantage to the tube and fin intercooler core is increased manufacturing cost.
As most of our products are warranty friendly with Ford the use of the tube and fin intercooler is paramount as it allows us to gain power increases by maximising the cooling pack efficiency with reduced air restriction.
As for the color - in real world driving the difference is negligible.
Ken.
Since you asked.
As you more than likely know the only real choice for any inter-cooler is the extruded tube and fluxed fin arrangement.
The main point worth noting is that bar and plate cores are designed for use in oil heaters and other industrial applications and tube and fin cores are designed for air heat transfer.
The low cost option primarily used is the bar and plate arrangement which is extremely cost effective but has the added penalty of weight, poor heat transfer from the external ambient air cooling source and very high pressure drop internally from its core design. The bar and plate inter-cooler matrix tempts the user into thinking they have purchased a road usable product because it performs extremely well for short periods of time typically on dynos. The mass of the unit is the key to its ability to give good air charge temperatures, however once warmed up it is very difficult for the bar and plate core to dissipate this heat. The other issue with bar and plate inter-coolers are the matrix core density which hinders across core airflow (ambient side). This causes cooling issues for any other radiators or cooling requirements packaged behind it. In other words you get great air charge temperature reduction on a dyno, but the engine temperature sky rockets as the radiator can't get enough cooling because its behind the intercooler.
The advantage of a tube and fin unit is that it has good heat transfer properties with low weight and low pressure drop across its core. They work much better than any other type of intercooler core. They also allow a higher quantity of air to flow across the outer of the core matrix (ambient) and onto other cooling items mounted behind it like the radiator. This is of particular advantage for road cars as most cooling packs include at least three/four items stacked all requiring airflow. The internal design also helps with reducing pressure drop across the core and this in turn allows a much larger core for a given pressure drop. The only real disadvantage to the tube and fin intercooler core is increased manufacturing cost.
As most of our products are warranty friendly with Ford the use of the tube and fin intercooler is paramount as it allows us to gain power increases by maximising the cooling pack efficiency with reduced air restriction.
As for the color - in real world driving the difference is negligible.
Ken.
Yes, in the winter I use a fine mesh stainless steel grille in front of the intercooler. It did help, but the fins were still in bad shape when I removed it in the spring. Of course the more you move them back into place and they get smashed again, the weaker the fins become. The mesh I used was similar to that of a screen door, but much stronger.
Clean, but still stuck in winter mode by Bryan Redeker, on Flickr
OK, given, but, does he have a point about the sustained power capabilities of the tube and fin design, due to NOT heat soaking like bar and plate setups?
When you say "power cars", are you talking about drag race/dyno/street race scenarios where one hard blast is enough, heat soak AFTER that be damned, or sustained hard use, like on a road course, or mountain driving/etc.?
Also, he is correct about the 'flow through' to the radiator being better on the tube and fin ICs, than on the bar and plate deals, no?
I am NOT defending one over the other, in fact, I actually HOPE you are correct since I have a brand new, still in box, uninstalled cp-e IC sitting in my basement, and I seriously want to know what is what BEFORE I either install it, OR sell it, and install the largest drop-in, factory fit tube and fin i can find.
When you say "power cars", are you talking about drag race/dyno/street race scenarios where one hard blast is enough, heat soak AFTER that be damned, or sustained hard use, like on a road course, or mountain driving/etc.?
Also, he is correct about the 'flow through' to the radiator being better on the tube and fin ICs, than on the bar and plate deals, no?
I am NOT defending one over the other, in fact, I actually HOPE you are correct since I have a brand new, still in box, uninstalled cp-e IC sitting in my basement, and I seriously want to know what is what BEFORE I either install it, OR sell it, and install the largest drop-in, factory fit tube and fin i can find.
Last edited:
OK, given, but, does he have a point about the sustained power capabilities of the tube and fin design, due to NOT heat soaking like bar and plate setups?
When you say "power cars", are you talking about drag race/dyno/street race scenarios where one hard blast is enough, heat soak AFTER that be damned, or sustained hard use, like on a road course, or mountain driving/etc.?
Also, he is correct about the 'flow through' to the radiator being better on the tube and fin ICs, than on the bar and plate deals, correct?
I am NOT defending one over the other, in fact, I actually HOPE you are correct since I have a brand new, still in box, uninstalled cp-e IC sitting in my basement, and I seriously want to know what is what BEFORE I either install it, OR sell it, and install the largest drop-in, factory fit tube and fin i can find.
When you say "power cars", are you talking about drag race/dyno/street race scenarios where one hard blast is enough, heat soak AFTER that be damned, or sustained hard use, like on a road course, or mountain driving/etc.?
Also, he is correct about the 'flow through' to the radiator being better on the tube and fin ICs, than on the bar and plate deals, correct?
I am NOT defending one over the other, in fact, I actually HOPE you are correct since I have a brand new, still in box, uninstalled cp-e IC sitting in my basement, and I seriously want to know what is what BEFORE I either install it, OR sell it, and install the largest drop-in, factory fit tube and fin i can find.
But keep this in mind, I think if Mountune engineering thought that a bar and plate was superior for the car's existing design they would have used one.
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OK, given, but, does he have a point about the sustained power capabilities of the tube and fin design, due to NOT heat soaking like bar and plate setups?
When you say "power cars", are you talking about drag race/dyno/street race scenarios where one hard blast is enough, heat soak AFTER that be damned, or sustained hard use, like on a road course, or mountain driving/etc.?
Also, he is correct about the 'flow through' to the radiator being better on the tube and fin ICs, than on the bar and plate deals, no?
I am NOT defending one over the other, in fact, I actually HOPE you are correct since I have a brand new, still in box, uninstalled cp-e IC sitting in my basement, and I seriously want to know what is what BEFORE I either install it, OR sell it, and install the largest drop-in, factory fit tube and fin i can find.
When you say "power cars", are you talking about drag race/dyno/street race scenarios where one hard blast is enough, heat soak AFTER that be damned, or sustained hard use, like on a road course, or mountain driving/etc.?
Also, he is correct about the 'flow through' to the radiator being better on the tube and fin ICs, than on the bar and plate deals, no?
I am NOT defending one over the other, in fact, I actually HOPE you are correct since I have a brand new, still in box, uninstalled cp-e IC sitting in my basement, and I seriously want to know what is what BEFORE I either install it, OR sell it, and install the largest drop-in, factory fit tube and fin i can find.
Mountune egineering? HA you mean the ones who put a 11psi wg spring on a 2554 saying it will hold 26+ to redline? You give them way to much credit.
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