used accessport bought unmarried but my power numbers are abysmal (estimated 150-162hp and 160-175ft-lbs). help?

[esp_martin]

Partiers,

I bought an ummarried used AP from another member on the forum and it had adapt-x and cobb stage 1,2,3 tunes. The adapt-x tunes are VIN locked to the previous owner but the AP let me flash my ECU with the program so I decided to give it a try. Did 5 and 6th gear pulls per the instructions pwnall gave to members here but the estimated HP numbers never went about 155hp and the torque stayed around 170ft-lb. I figured the adapt-X IS actually VIN locked and if you load it you're basically putting the car into a nanny state with no real boost (even though my AP said i was getting between 22-23lbs of boost at peak).

So this morning I switched to the Cobb Stage 3 tune and estimated HP went up to 162ish but torque stayed at about 175ft-lbs and boost got up to 22 or 23. I know these numbers are estimates but they are putrid and I'm not really noticing ANY changes on the butt dyno either.

I have one step colder plugs gapped for tune+ (bought from tune+ and I've been told they're about 0.025-0.026) and a ramair drop in filter and that's it. If anyone can give some insight I'd appreciate it. I know Cobb 3 calls for an intercooler, downpipe and catback exhaust but everything I've read has stated they're unnecessary other the FMIC so you can avoid heat soak. I only like doing a couple pulls in a day so figured at the least the first pull would get me 200-210 estimated hp and more importantly 260-300 estimated torque.

I can post datalogs when I get home tonight so also just giving me advice on what to monitor would be great. Right now it's:
ignition correction cyl 1-4, ignition timing 1-4, hp, torque, rpm, transmission gear, oil temp, charge temp, boost

 

[rcnut14]

are you watching your intake temp? what's it reading? it's been very hot this week and the stock intercooler can't keep up STOCK, no way it'll keep up with any type of tune.

air temp will drastically change the feeling of the car as far as "power" is concerned.

 

[esp_martin]

is intake temp the same as charge temp? I thought it was and this morning it was about 115degF. Yesterday it hovered around 130-140degF.

I was wondering if that might be the case as you're right that this Northeast heat wave has been brutal but would that really rob me of 50ish HP and 100lb-ft of torque? If so maybe I need to have that whoosh FMIC shipped immediately...

 

[rcnut14]

so I'm in southern PA, only about an hour and a half from you, and this weekend I never got above 105° with a whoosh V3 while moving (it'll heatsoak while sitting, but then will cool back down pretty much instantly)

That DOES seem like more loss than I would expect, but you never know.

What I would do, is take a day that's not as hot like today, flash stage 1 Cobb, as we know that the factory intercooler can handle that, and we know exactly what power you should be making. Then report back.

If you are making around what stage 1 should be making, we know it's heat soak. If not then you know it's something else.

 

[esp_martin]

i support this troubleshooting idea. I'll do that and update.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Why on God's green earth would you be doing pulls in 5th and 6th gear? Every one knows if you wanna get moving shift down into 3rd or 4th based on what gear you're in.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

 

[rcnut14]

Why on God's green earth would you be doing pulls in 5th and 6th gear? Every one knows if you wanna get moving shift down into 3rd or 4th based on what gear you're in.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

oh, Jesus, yea I glossed over that part

Do pulls in 3 or 4th from like 2k to redline

 

[esp_martin]

Why on God's green earth would you be doing pulls in 5th and 6th gear? Every one knows if you wanna get moving shift down into 3rd or 4th based on what gear you're in.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

lol, i should have been more detailed. apparently the adapt-x tune does it's learning in 5th and 6th gears. like pedal to the floor for 6-10s and then coasting while staying in gear.

the HP/torque readings i was getting after the learning were in 2nd/3rd gear all the way to redline. same for the cobb stage 3 tune.

no matter what gear and at what rpm i never got better than 163HP and 175ish ft-lbs of torque.

 

[esp_martin]

so I'm in southern PA, only about an hour and a half from you, and this weekend I never got above 105° with a whoosh V3 while moving (it'll heatsoak while sitting, but then will cool back down pretty much instantly)

That DOES seem like more loss than I would expect, but you never know.

What I would do, is take a day that's not as hot like today, flash stage 1 Cobb, as we know that the factory intercooler can handle that, and we know exactly what power you should be making. Then report back.

If you are making around what stage 1 should be making, we know it's heat soak. If not then you know it's something else.

decided to put the adapt-x 87-93 map back on the car this morning before heading to work to find out if it really was putting my car in a nanny state. changed the datalog map to what the adapt-x tune calls for and added estimated HP and torque. also changed my gauge from CHARGE temp to INTAKE temp.

ambient temp was 77-80deg through the whole run and intake temp started around 80ishdeg and topped out at about 95deg. During that whole ride the best HP number was about 168 and the best torque was around 190. So it seems like the adapt-x tune is doing it's thing and learning and adjusting and not putting the car in a nanny/valet state. that said...anyone have ideas? i can post the datalog tonight but any advice ahead of time and what to watch out for would be appreciated.

just a heads up, my drivetrain is completely STOCK except for a ramair drop in filter

also @TyphoonFiST i was doing 2K to redline pulls in 3rd and 4th. promise.

 

[Business6]

lol, i should have been more detailed. apparently the adapt-x tune does it's learning in 5th and 6th gears. like pedal to the floor for 6-10s and then coasting while staying in gear.

Can anyone explain to me how this is a good idea? How does this not create the exact scenario for LSPI to donate your engine to a junkyard?

And not to hijack, I'm genuinely concerned by that.

 

[esp_martin]

Can anyone explain to me how this is a good idea? How does this not create the exact scenario for LSPI to donate your engine to a junkyard?

And not to hijack, I'm genuinely concerned by that.

from what pwnall writes on the forum (the developer of this tune)

Appreciate the feedback, even if there are negative corrections, corrections are the offset to the final commanded timing curve. For example if the ecu commands 5 degrees of spark, and knock advance adds 2 degrees that's +2 or if you knock the car pulls 1-2 degrees from the commanded timing that's -2.

It's commonly practiced by a handful of tuners to run a very conservative timing curve, and then add in tons of advance at a very fast rate at wot, this is mostly in part due to the OTS maps having reduced knock retard values (50% over oem) and increased knock advance rates (lots of tuners used OTS as a starting point), so instead of 1 degree pulled on the lightest itensity knock event only half a degree of timing is pulled (0.50). Keep that in mind when you are +10 correction at wot and you could be knocking 15-20 times and because the advance is drastically sped up and the knock retard is halved, you'll never see a negative correction.


Adapt-X uses factory knock retard values and the OAR gets the base timing as close as possible to the knock threshold and then you'll see roughly 2-3 degrees at wot added in by knock advance up to 6-8 degrees. You can also pull -6 degrees as well and the engine can be perfectly safe as knock retard is doing it's job. For example, your OAR is -0.90 or higher from 93 octane and you put in 87 octane and do a pull right away. The ecu did not have ample time to adjust and learn a more positive OAR (only learns in cruising conditions) so to prevent engine damage it will reduce engine load with the pre ignition LSPI blend modifier and up to -6 degrees of knock retard to keep the engine safe.

During normal driving conditions it's normal to see -4/+4 as well. If you are consistently getting -4 or higher at wot and your octane ratio does not adjust then there could be a problem, but the calibration is extremely safe and there are 0 failures documented ever on Adapt-X. On the Focus ST Adapt-X is actually safer than OEM because it runs richer at power demand to keep the ringlands safe. Looking at a lot of the newer ecoboosts, you will see ford runs them much richer (the ecoboost mustang dips into the 10's afr wise), as ford realized the ringlands were being compromised from high heat exposure over time.

Adapt-X is a stock style tune that will give you max power and adjust to your mods as long as you keep the stock fuel system, stock wastegate, and stock turbo. There's nothing to gain moving to a custom dyno tune, the Adapt-X always ensures you're maxing out your performance based on your fuel quality and weather conditions.

he says similar on his website
https://monstertuned.com/products/Fiesta-ST-Adapt-X-Tune-p358859436

 

[esp_martin]

@Clint Beastwood do you mind chiming in? I think the hot as BALLS ambient temp and me not having a FMIC is what's keeping my car at or below stock levels

 

[Clint Beastwood]

@Clint Beastwood do you mind chiming in? I think the hot as BALLS ambient temp and me not having a FMIC is what's keeping my car at or below stock levels

Oh - hey

2 things:
1. Ignore the estimated power meters from the AP. They are always off, though maybe useful for differentials.
2. I think the adapt-x tunes are VIN locked, so if you run someone else's Adapt-X tune it might lock you to a "safe" baseline.

To do the learning, make sure your oil temp is at least 176f and go on the freeway and give it like 60-70% throttle in 5th gear for as long as possible, several times. Then, get frustrated that nothing is happening and ignore it for a few weeks, then you'll look down and it will have learned as soon as you stopped waiting for it.

That being said, I am pretty sure it's not going to work correctly unless you actually buy the adapt-x tune. If the hot temps are potentially an issue, throw a gallon of e85 in, then fill up with premium and see if it's happier. Our cars are already under-cooled, so flogging it on an exceptionally hot summer with the stock IC and a tune not coded for your car might not be the best decision.

Personally: If you like what vendors do, support them by buying their products/tunes/etc. I don't *need* to own a tune from every major vendor, but I appreciate what they do so I've bought them all.

 

[4DGC]

If you are gonna keep the car you will eventually get an intercooler. Everyone does, just bite the bullet now. Then a Dizzy stage 2 tune is only $75. Jason will check your logs and then you'll know what you got. There are many ways to get where you want to go but this is a good start. IMHO

 

[Business6]

from what pwnall writes on the forum (the developer of this tune)

Certainly an interesting method for tuning.

 

[esp_martin]

Oh - hey

2 things:
1. Ignore the estimated power meters from the AP. They are always off, though maybe useful for differentials.
2. I think the adapt-x tunes are VIN locked, so if you run someone else's Adapt-X tune it might lock you to a "safe" baseline.

To do the learning, make sure your oil temp is at least 176f and go on the freeway and give it like 60-70% throttle in 5th gear for as long as possible, several times. Then, get frustrated that nothing is happening and ignore it for a few weeks, then you'll look down and it will have learned as soon as you stopped waiting for it.

That being said, I am pretty sure it's not going to work correctly unless you actually buy the adapt-x tune. If the hot temps are potentially an issue, throw a gallon of e85 in, then fill up with premium and see if it's happier. Our cars are already under-cooled, so flogging it on an exceptionally hot summer with the stock IC and a tune not coded for your car might not be the best decision.

Personally: If you like what vendors do, support them by buying their products/tunes/etc. I don't *need* to own a tune from every major vendor, but I appreciate what they do so I've bought them all.

Thanks for the heads up. I think I'll buy the combo tune from pwnall tonight just to get the support (and support his tune).

Yeah this all makes sense. Have a 600 mile road trip this week so maybe I'll get both tunes sorted out on the way down, have him look a the maps and update on the way back.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Thanks for the heads up. I think I'll buy the combo tune from pwnall tonight just to get the support (and support his tune).

Yeah this all makes sense. Have a 600 mile road trip this week so maybe I'll get both tunes sorted out on the way down, have him look a the maps and update on the way back.

Before a long sustained trip in hot weather on the stock IC, please flash back to stock first.

They'll send you specific monitors to activate on your AP - do that just to hit the required temp then stop watching it. The more you watch it, the longer it'll take to learn.

 

[New_Daily]

If you are gonna keep the car you will eventually get an intercooler. Everyone does, just bite the bullet now. Then a Dizzy stage 2 tune is only $75. Jason will check your logs and then you'll know what you got. There are many ways to get where you want to go but this is a good start. IMHO

I did exactly this, and completely agree. Jason's tune feels great, the fact that you can have him review your personal logs is a good feeling of security that your car is performing (and safe) and totally worth it.

 

[pwnall1337]

Adapt-X learns like the OEM tune, our calibrations have factory octane learning.

OAR ranges:

87 gas 0.10 to -0.10
89 gas -0.20 to -0.40
91 gas (sea level) -0.60 to -0.80
93+ -0.80 to -1.00

You are not causing LSPI in 5th/6th gear by cruising low rpm 30-50% throttle. You cause LSPI by low RPM wot operation.

The reason we have to suggest low rpm moderate load for octane learning is because you need to generate engine load for OAR listening, this is easiest to do 30-60% throttle on the highway in overdrive gears.

This is only for people who have issues learning OAR on manual cars because they tend to drive them at higher rpm and don't load the engine at all, this is not an issue on automatic cars like the ranger, explorer st, f150, ecoboost mustang 10 speed where just driving the car will put you in the OAR listening range because the auto trans keeps the rpms lows when cruising. Lots of manual drivers like to cruise 2500-3500 which makes octane learning harder because the vehicle sees less load.

 

[esp_martin]

If you are gonna keep the car you will eventually get an intercooler. Everyone does, just bite the bullet now. Then a Dizzy stage 2 tune is only $75. Jason will check your logs and then you'll know what you got. There are many ways to get where you want to go but this is a good start. IMHO

absolutely i have every intention of getting the whoosh FMIC but I don't have a driveway or garage so finding the time to go to a friend's place to do the work is gonna be needed. I'll most likely be doing it next month. i'm not trying to find ways around it. just don't have the time.