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Fiesta ST Intercooler Info Thread
- Thread starter rodmoe
- Start date
- Tags fiesta st intercooler fiesta st intercooler review fiesta st intercoolers
Looks like a knock-off of our design, but definitely not "COBB components". Sad to see, but it happens often in this industry. 
Ian
Ian
What is sad to see is that a shop across the pond is outselling you guys by a long shot even with larger core options out there simply because of the price and proven performance of this sized core already. I am sure if Cobb started offering their intercooler without logos or a polished finish for the same price they would sell like MTC is selling theirs. At the end of the day its a piece of aluminum welded together and bolted on the car. It doesn't need to look nice to work well enough to be worth the price, which at sub $400 most certainly is.
Imagine Cobb selling an intercooler for $375 shipped next day air..... you'd make a killing. Kinda like MTC is doing..... I love competition..
![[cool]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_cool.gif "Cool [cool]"){kind=icon}
Sad for you maybe, but not for the consumer or the market, or anyone posting on this forum.
What is sad to see is that a shop across the pond is outselling you guys by a long shot even with larger core options out there simply because of the price and proven performance of this sized core already. I am sure if Cobb started offering their intercooler without logos or a polished finish for the same price they would sell like MTC is selling theirs. At the end of the day its a piece of aluminum welded together and bolted on the car. It doesn't need to look nice to work well enough to be worth the price, which at sub $400 most certainly is.
Imagine Cobb selling an intercooler for $375 shipped next day air..... you'd make a killing. Kinda like MTC is doing..... I love competition..
What is sad to see is that a shop across the pond is outselling you guys by a long shot even with larger core options out there simply because of the price and proven performance of this sized core already. I am sure if Cobb started offering their intercooler without logos or a polished finish for the same price they would sell like MTC is selling theirs. At the end of the day its a piece of aluminum welded together and bolted on the car. It doesn't need to look nice to work well enough to be worth the price, which at sub $400 most certainly is.
Imagine Cobb selling an intercooler for $375 shipped next day air..... you'd make a killing. Kinda like MTC is doing..... I love competition..
Looks like a knock-off of our design, but definitely not "COBB components". Sad to see, but it happens often in this industry.
Ian
Ian
Also, I thought people might be interested in seeing how well the MTC intercooler performs over the course of rowing through multiple gears to the top of 4th. I took a datalog of such an activity below:
Went from about 2,300 RPM in second to the top end of 4th gear and only managed a 17 degree rise in charge temps. It's a solid unit to say the least in my opinion and I am extremely satisfied with it.
http://datazap.me/u/commonplatypus/mtc-intercooler-multi-gear-datalog?log=0&data=0-1-3-4-5-7-9-20
Went from about 2,300 RPM in second to the top end of 4th gear and only managed a 17 degree rise in charge temps. It's a solid unit to say the least in my opinion and I am extremely satisfied with it.
http://datazap.me/u/commonplatypus/mtc-intercooler-multi-gear-datalog?log=0&data=0-1-3-4-5-7-9-20
Sad for you maybe, but not for the consumer or the market, or anyone posting on this forum.
What is sad to see is that a shop across the pond is outselling you guys by a long shot even with larger core options out there simply because of the price and proven performance of this sized core already. I am sure if Cobb started offering their intercooler without logos or a polished finish for the same price they would sell like MTC is selling theirs. At the end of the day its a piece of aluminum welded together and bolted on the car. It doesn't need to look nice to work well enough to be worth the price, which at sub $400 most certainly is.
Imagine Cobb selling an intercooler for $375 shipped next day air..... you'd make a killing. Kinda like MTC is doing..... I love competition..
What is sad to see is that a shop across the pond is outselling you guys by a long shot even with larger core options out there simply because of the price and proven performance of this sized core already. I am sure if Cobb started offering their intercooler without logos or a polished finish for the same price they would sell like MTC is selling theirs. At the end of the day its a piece of aluminum welded together and bolted on the car. It doesn't need to look nice to work well enough to be worth the price, which at sub $400 most certainly is.
Imagine Cobb selling an intercooler for $375 shipped next day air..... you'd make a killing. Kinda like MTC is doing..... I love competition..
Price vs perception
I wanted to chime in here and give a different perspective. No one know me personally on this forum but I come to the fiesta st world from the ls1 world. I used to own a company that sold performance aftermarket clutches for the ls1 world. First not knowing anything about Cobb personally I can tell you their intercooler is not manufacturered by them and by that I mean the core. Their simply not big enough to do that and be price effective. They are sourcing that core from somewhere and perhaps they put their end tanks on it and polish it or perhaps they source that too. Both of the latter are within their scope.
With clutches their are only 3-4 suppliers in the world for the pucks on the discs. Their are more than 3-4 clutch companies so do the math. No clutch company out there is making their own pucks. I don't care what they tell you and as for cost hold on to your hats. .$50.00 is what it cost me to build a clutch disc capable of holding a t-56 transmission with 700rwhp on a ls1 car weighing 3400lbs all day long. It cost me 50.00 for the same pressure plate and $100.00 to have a custom flywheel cut from scratch in Australia (because steel is cheaper there) and I could have 100 of them overnighted air freight at a cost of $15,000 and still make a profit. We were selling our clutches for $1100.00. The clutch was so popular in Australia Holden sourced our clutch for threir racing team and excedy sourced our clutch in Australia to resell under their name. You could even choose our clutch in the Fronza video game for the corvette.
Cobb has made a name for themselves delivering quality product and when you do that over time it affords you the ability to sell your product at a premium. It is called price vs perception. Are you getting what you are paying for?it was costing us 350.00 to make and we were selling for 1100.00 because we made a clutch that was a single disc that you could drive in the street everyday and would hold 700rwhp.
So.....is the mtc the same core as the cobb? Maybe maybe not but it doesn't matter. The mtc is probably the Walmart brand and the Cobb is the polo brand but if they do the same thing then you have to decide do you want the Walmart shirt or the polo shirt. Not cover you up both are made of thread but one has a horse in it. Does it make it better......nope. But if you mark the price up then the perception is it is better. I hope I am not telling anyone here something they don't already know but if I did then you gained from the reading. Their are only so many companies who make I/c cores.
As for 2j racing I was a hater. I purchased a Wilwood kit for them and it didn't do anything they said it did and to add injury to insult they didn't understand the product they were selling and I had to enlist Wilwood direcltly to resolve the problem. If your going to sell something you need to understand what your selling and not push it off onto the manufacturer which is what 2j did. Wilwood does not make a lot for the fiesta. 2j sourced the parts from Wilwood then created a bracket without understanding all of the ins and outs of the product they were selling and maybe this is what makes the Cobb stuff the better product. They know what they sell and perhaps that is what your paying for.
I wanted to chime in here and give a different perspective. No one know me personally on this forum but I come to the fiesta st world from the ls1 world. I used to own a company that sold performance aftermarket clutches for the ls1 world. First not knowing anything about Cobb personally I can tell you their intercooler is not manufacturered by them and by that I mean the core. Their simply not big enough to do that and be price effective. They are sourcing that core from somewhere and perhaps they put their end tanks on it and polish it or perhaps they source that too. Both of the latter are within their scope.
With clutches their are only 3-4 suppliers in the world for the pucks on the discs. Their are more than 3-4 clutch companies so do the math. No clutch company out there is making their own pucks. I don't care what they tell you and as for cost hold on to your hats. .$50.00 is what it cost me to build a clutch disc capable of holding a t-56 transmission with 700rwhp on a ls1 car weighing 3400lbs all day long. It cost me 50.00 for the same pressure plate and $100.00 to have a custom flywheel cut from scratch in Australia (because steel is cheaper there) and I could have 100 of them overnighted air freight at a cost of $15,000 and still make a profit. We were selling our clutches for $1100.00. The clutch was so popular in Australia Holden sourced our clutch for threir racing team and excedy sourced our clutch in Australia to resell under their name. You could even choose our clutch in the Fronza video game for the corvette.
Cobb has made a name for themselves delivering quality product and when you do that over time it affords you the ability to sell your product at a premium. It is called price vs perception. Are you getting what you are paying for?it was costing us 350.00 to make and we were selling for 1100.00 because we made a clutch that was a single disc that you could drive in the street everyday and would hold 700rwhp.
So.....is the mtc the same core as the cobb? Maybe maybe not but it doesn't matter. The mtc is probably the Walmart brand and the Cobb is the polo brand but if they do the same thing then you have to decide do you want the Walmart shirt or the polo shirt. Not cover you up both are made of thread but one has a horse in it. Does it make it better......nope. But if you mark the price up then the perception is it is better. I hope I am not telling anyone here something they don't already know but if I did then you gained from the reading. Their are only so many companies who make I/c cores.
As for 2j racing I was a hater. I purchased a Wilwood kit for them and it didn't do anything they said it did and to add injury to insult they didn't understand the product they were selling and I had to enlist Wilwood direcltly to resolve the problem. If your going to sell something you need to understand what your selling and not push it off onto the manufacturer which is what 2j did. Wilwood does not make a lot for the fiesta. 2j sourced the parts from Wilwood then created a bracket without understanding all of the ins and outs of the product they were selling and maybe this is what makes the Cobb stuff the better product. They know what they sell and perhaps that is what your paying for.
Antartica24 its funny you bring up the clutch thing... I was recently at the track with a friend. He has a very high powered car that is on a relatively young platform. At the time, he thought his $1,000,000 clutch was slipping (turned out to be another issue ). But I suggested since he lives in Tampa Florida where "bay city clutch" is ( tampabay clutch I think its called
Now ), that he should call them for a new disk instead of spending another $1,000,000. He looked at me like I had six legs and only 5 knees.
They custom build clutches. They are basically a machine shop that custom builds clutches other people sell.
They offered me a clutch for my G35 for less than 1/2 the price and had 30% better torque handling with stock feel.
Lots of locals use them for clutches for high hp clutches.
We have a local drive shaft shop that builds shafts for mine equipment. My buddy spent $900 for a driveshaft on his new 5.0 instead of paying them $250. Jeeps have "Tom Woods driveshafts" that are $650 PER SHAFT. That shop built me identical custom length shafts for the front and rear for less than $300 COMBINED
Crazy how people ignore perfectly good solutions for that "polo shirt effect".
Now ), that he should call them for a new disk instead of spending another $1,000,000. He looked at me like I had six legs and only 5 knees.
They custom build clutches. They are basically a machine shop that custom builds clutches other people sell.
They offered me a clutch for my G35 for less than 1/2 the price and had 30% better torque handling with stock feel.
Lots of locals use them for clutches for high hp clutches.
We have a local drive shaft shop that builds shafts for mine equipment. My buddy spent $900 for a driveshaft on his new 5.0 instead of paying them $250. Jeeps have "Tom Woods driveshafts" that are $650 PER SHAFT. That shop built me identical custom length shafts for the front and rear for less than $300 COMBINED
Crazy how people ignore perfectly good solutions for that "polo shirt effect".
Big brake kit problem
First I drive an enormous amount of miles every month. To the tune of 6000 miles a month.
I spoke to them and they ensured me the kit they sell as is would work fine and using the bp20 pads would be ok. After 30 days the rotors were warped these were the cross drilled rotors. Also the rotors they sold me were out of round from Wilwood. 2j said it was not their fault and that they had sold many kits and had not had any problems. Well first problem they haven't sold more that 20 kits at most and they certainly had not tested that brake kit with 12,000 miles that would be 1 year worth of driving that I cover in 2 months. So you see the delimma.
I threw the cross drilled rotors in the trash. And ordered a set of the solid rotors that 2j sold. I checked the rotors with a micrometer in 12 positions before putting them on the car one of them was out of round from Wilwood. 2j said not their fault and Wilwood said not their fault but Wilwood finally came around and asked me to send it to them and Wilwood replaced the rotor but it took them 2 weeks.
Once I had the rotors on the car it was warped with 30 days.
Wilwood had no idea what was causing the problem and 2j had no clue and all they could say was we have sold many kits but have not had any problems.
Again also not driving with any miles either.
So I took an initiative. I called Wilwood back and got an engineer on the phone and we covered my driving style and mileage. I came to the conclusion the pads were too aggressive and the rotors were not strong enough. Wilwood makes a heavy duty rotor and I dropped to a bp10 pad. I have been on this combo for over 4 months and had no problems.
Everyone on this forum said the bp10 was not strong enough to stop the car and my response is they don't know what their talking about. From 100mph I can stop the car so aggressively that I can lift you out of your seat with zero fade even when driving aggressively on the twisties.
The point being 2j was selling a product they knew nothing about and offer zero customer service. They pushed the whole problem back to Wilwood and Wilwood said it was not their problem because they don't sell a kit for the fiesta. If I didn't have experience working with Wilwood in the past I would not have figured any of this out.
If your going to sell something you have to know and understand what your selling and when your going to build a kit from scratch you need to stand behind it.
As for Cobb they stand behind and understand what they are doing. Does mtc? Can you call mtc and have them walk you through the install? I am not standing up for Cobb and their pricing but those are the kind of things you pay for.
As for the brake bracket and the kit it bolted right up. They just didn't do proper testing. They just put the kit together and assumed if it worked for a little time it was good to go and just because they race on the brakes I promise you the daily driving I am doing on the brakes is putting much more load on them than they are racing in them.
I hope that helps.
First I drive an enormous amount of miles every month. To the tune of 6000 miles a month.
I spoke to them and they ensured me the kit they sell as is would work fine and using the bp20 pads would be ok. After 30 days the rotors were warped these were the cross drilled rotors. Also the rotors they sold me were out of round from Wilwood. 2j said it was not their fault and that they had sold many kits and had not had any problems. Well first problem they haven't sold more that 20 kits at most and they certainly had not tested that brake kit with 12,000 miles that would be 1 year worth of driving that I cover in 2 months. So you see the delimma.
I threw the cross drilled rotors in the trash. And ordered a set of the solid rotors that 2j sold. I checked the rotors with a micrometer in 12 positions before putting them on the car one of them was out of round from Wilwood. 2j said not their fault and Wilwood said not their fault but Wilwood finally came around and asked me to send it to them and Wilwood replaced the rotor but it took them 2 weeks.
Once I had the rotors on the car it was warped with 30 days.
Wilwood had no idea what was causing the problem and 2j had no clue and all they could say was we have sold many kits but have not had any problems.
Again also not driving with any miles either.
So I took an initiative. I called Wilwood back and got an engineer on the phone and we covered my driving style and mileage. I came to the conclusion the pads were too aggressive and the rotors were not strong enough. Wilwood makes a heavy duty rotor and I dropped to a bp10 pad. I have been on this combo for over 4 months and had no problems.
Everyone on this forum said the bp10 was not strong enough to stop the car and my response is they don't know what their talking about. From 100mph I can stop the car so aggressively that I can lift you out of your seat with zero fade even when driving aggressively on the twisties.
The point being 2j was selling a product they knew nothing about and offer zero customer service. They pushed the whole problem back to Wilwood and Wilwood said it was not their problem because they don't sell a kit for the fiesta. If I didn't have experience working with Wilwood in the past I would not have figured any of this out.
If your going to sell something you have to know and understand what your selling and when your going to build a kit from scratch you need to stand behind it.
As for Cobb they stand behind and understand what they are doing. Does mtc? Can you call mtc and have them walk you through the install? I am not standing up for Cobb and their pricing but those are the kind of things you pay for.
As for the brake bracket and the kit it bolted right up. They just didn't do proper testing. They just put the kit together and assumed if it worked for a little time it was good to go and just because they race on the brakes I promise you the daily driving I am doing on the brakes is putting much more load on them than they are racing in them.
I hope that helps.
I think this is being repeated with their intercooler aswell, they made a product that they had zero experience with and just pushed the product out. A friend of mine tried to install their IC on his 2015 and it was not a drop in like they said it would be, he in the end did not install the unit as it does not fit and Joe has not chimed in once to say the least. You will get your fan boys that will say get over the poor workmanship or get over this but if the cooler doesn't even fit now.... Worst company going atm! Would not recommend 2J
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