Still having suspension issues, what to check next?

[mosephuss]

Hi all, I've posted here a few times looking for advice, tried different things and am still dealing with issues in the way my car handles and feels. I'm gonna start off with what I'm experiencing then go over what's been replaced.

I had a spinout in some pretty bad weather and right off the bat could tell something wasn't right with my car. I've put a ton of money into my car to fix what I thought was wrong with it, then taken it into the dealer but they couldn't figure anything out. I'm still here not being able to enjoy my car the way it's meant to be.

When the car is stationary I can push on it from the side and it wobbles a decent amount, it will wobble when I close my door, get in and out of the car. There's a decent amount of bump steer, which I know is from lowering it. There's a ton of torque steer, especially on uneven road surfaces. The car tramlines considerably. And overall the car just doesn't feel very stable, I avoid going on the highway now because it doesn't feel safe, I really have to keep my car going in a straight line. When taking a corner aggressively, the car feels kinda wobbly and bouncy as opposed to flat and composed, it still handles well, but it just doesn't feel right.

I'm hesitant but not opposed to saying that one of the parts I've changed might be bad, but after driving around after installing new parts I can't say there were any huge improvements in how the car drove except for getting the broken tie rod end replaced.
I've hit a limit for how long my post is I think so I'll make another post in this thread with what's been replaced and the work that's been performed. One thing to note is the car has been aligned multiple times, and had it's most recent one less than a week ago after getting the second tie rod end replaced.

 

[mosephuss]

• Both tie rod ends replaced, each one done at different times, OEM(first one was close to failing completely, the other I did just to have them both be new)
• Stock shocks and springs replaced with mountune Clubsport suspension kit (Bilstein b8+mountune springs) I also put in powerflex spring pads for the rear springs
• Both control arms replaced, OEM
• Sway bar end links replaced, OEM
• Passenger side and driver side motor mounts replaced with vibra technics fast road mounts, the outgoing OEM mounts were completely gone, I could wiggle them around with one hand. RMM wasn't replaced recently, but when I bought my car I got an AWR RMM installed.
• Brand new tires fitted, pilot sport as4

Off the top of my head, that's everything that's been done. With everything that's been replaced I don't feel as if my car should be acting this way.

What should I check next? I'm beginning to get really antsy and just don't enjoy driving my car anymore and it's been taking a pretty big toll on me unfortunately.

 

[rcnut14]

do you have a local shop you trust that you can take it to? I've found most dealers to be useless

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Could anything in the frame be messed up from the spinout?
Are you still on the rims from the spinout? Could one be bent?

 

[mosephuss]

do you have a local shop you trust that you can take it to? I've found most dealers to be useless

Unfortunately I don't. I used to take my Subaru to a reputable shop but they only work on subies, and a buddy mechanic of mine moved across the country. I'll look around though.

My service advisor at the Ford dealership is the relative of a close friend so they vouched for them, but yeah I'm still a bit hesitant about dealers.

 

[mosephuss]

Could anything in the frame be messed up from the spinout?
Are you still on the rims from the spinout? Could one be bent?

I really hope it isn't the frame, but with all that's been done it very well could be. Maybe the sway bar/bushings. I didn't collide with anything but did go over some bumps, this was and still is a ridiculously rough section of road.

I don't think it's the rims though since it's acting funny when stationary too, and there's nothing that could point to a bent rim, still holding pressure too.

Edit: I've also thought the rear axle may be damaged, but it doesn't look bent at all and the bushings are still strong, and it feels like the issues I'm having while moving are coming from the front end.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Find another Local Fiesta ST owner in your area and let them drive your FiST. It might be all in your head*

 

[mosephuss]

I just did a slight pushdown test on the rear of the car and there is a slight clicking when I push down, coming from the right rear. I take my car to a diy shop that gives me lift access so I'm gonna see if somethings loose, but could also just be the handbrake maybe?

Could be in my head too, but honestly I don't think so.

 

[akiraproject24]

I'm guessing you did an alignment. I think out of spec toe can make that tram issue. Sounds like something isnt tight somewhere (i know not real helpful). You def hit all the possible culprits

Bent or bad bushings on the rear beam?

 

[mosephuss]

I'm guessing you did an alignment. I think out of spec toe can make that tram issue. Sounds like something isnt tight somewhere (i know not real helpful). You def hit all the possible culprits

Bent or bad bushings on the rear beam?

Bushings were alright, didn't look bent at all to me although I'm not the best to judge that. I'll go to that diy shop and start pushing and pulling things and see if anything's loose.
Might be RMM but that doesn't explain most of what I'm dealing with, but that's worth a shot I guess. A reddit user mentioned how spinouts can damage motor mounts so maybe it messed up my high durometer awr mount.

And something not tight somewhere is kinda what I was hoping, obviously you know only what I've told you and can't actually see me car, but I guess that'll give me some clues as to what to look for.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Bushings were alright, didn't look bent at all to me although I'm not the best to judge that. I'll go to that diy shop and start pushing and pulling things and see if anything's loose.
Might be RMM but that doesn't explain most of what I'm dealing with, but that's worth a shot I guess. A reddit user mentioned how spinouts can damage motor mounts so maybe it messed up my high durometer awr mount.

And something not tight somewhere is kinda what I was hoping, obviously you know only what I've told you and can't actually see me car, but I guess that'll give me some clues as to what to look for.

Let us know if you figure out what it is.

 

[mosephuss]

Let us know if you figure out what it is.

Will do, I think for starters I'm going to replace the strut to knuckle bolts and more or less reinstall the front struts, then check bushings, and see if the steering rack bolts have backed out and need to be retightened.
How would I know if the sway bar bushings are bad? Can I check them without pulling the subframe? Similarly if they are bad would I need to pull the subframe to replace them?

 

[Sam4]

Find another Local Fiesta ST owner in your area and let them drive your FiST. It might be all in your head*

I was going to suggest the same - a different ass behind the wheel. I have no business responding - I'm up on stands right now casing susp noise. I firmly believe it is the bearing plate / top hat mount, 50k seems it's lifetime...I just can't get it apart right now - it's plastic and warped a bit around the top of the spring. Or back together. Or fighting with my wife. or the HOA letter.....

 

[jeffreylyon]

Dynamically, it sounds like lots of toe-out. Loose suspension points and worn bushings make noise, lots of noise. Is there play in the steering wheel? Find a safe spot to do a hard stop from 60 while loosely holding onto the steering wheel - does the car pull hard? Place two straight edges against your front tires, running north/south to the car and measure the distance between the edge of the front and the rear of the tires; if the front length is longer than the rear you've got toe-out. I'm not sure of specs. but, normally, you'd want a tad of toe-in on a street car and 0 toe on a tracky-car.

Unless you've really lowered your car (and you haven't) bump steer shouldn't be a huge issue unless you've already got a toe issue. When you say "wobbles" do you mean it rolls? I guess that it's possible that you've blown out a front anti-sway bar bushing, but you'd hear that unless it's completely gone and the bar is free in the bracket with enough room to move w/o hitting.

I don't think that you have a broken car. If you've owned it from new then it's really unlikely that you're chasing a structural issue. Simply "spinning out" doesn't break anything. Measure your toe. Then get the car on stands and take a good look at the anti-sway bar bushing. While it's on stand wiggle the wheels up and down and left and right, looking for any clicks or play. Try to lift the upright from the LCA with a pry bar or long handled screwdriver to check the ball joint (although, even if you've got a worn one, I don't think that is causing the problems you're describing). Report back!

 

[scooter123]

The # 1 cause for a car being "bouncy" is BAD SHOCKS. IMO the first thing you should do is replace you front shocks with new OEM shocks specific for the ST. Because it is possible for brand new shocks to have been manufactured incorrectly even by Bilstein. If you aren't actually Tracking your car the stock suspension is actually excellent. Something a lot of folks don't realize is that a full on Racing suspension is DEEPLY compromised for Street Driving. I know, lowering kits look cool. The problem is that lowering kits just suck on rough roads. We have potholes in the Metro Detroit area that have broken the front axle on a semi and I would not want to have a lowered car in this area.

 

[Mike King]

Have the center of the hubs (wheelbase) compared left to right. Check the alignment and compare to specs. I had a car that I hit a curb with and the caster was way out on one side causing crazy handling. The lower control arm bottom of the strut was bent back and so was the subframe. The strut was leaking as well. It was very unsettling at high speeds, kept feeling like I was going to spin out or flip.

 

[mosephuss]

Dynamically, it sounds like lots of toe-out. Loose suspension points and worn bushings make noise, lots of noise. Is there play in the steering wheel? Find a safe spot to do a hard stop from 60 while loosely holding onto the steering wheel - does the car pull hard? Place two straight edges against your front tires, running north/south to the car and measure the distance between the edge of the front and the rear of the tires; if the front length is longer than the rear you've got toe-out. I'm not sure of specs. but, normally, you'd want a tad of toe-in on a street car and 0 toe on a tracky-car.

Unless you've really lowered your car (and you haven't) bump steer shouldn't be a huge issue unless you've already got a toe issue. When you say "wobbles" do you mean it rolls? I guess that it's possible that you've blown out a front anti-sway bar bushing, but you'd hear that unless it's completely gone and the bar is free in the bracket with enough room to move w/o hitting.

I don't think that you have a broken car. If you've owned it from new then it's really unlikely that you're chasing a structural issue. Simply "spinning out" doesn't break anything. Measure your toe. Then get the car on stands and take a good look at the anti-sway bar bushing. While it's on stand wiggle the wheels up and down and left and right, looking for any clicks or play. Try to lift the upright from the LCA with a pry bar or long handled screwdriver to check the ball joint (although, even if you've got a worn one, I don't think that is causing the problems you're describing). Report back!

The car does pull when stopping, even from lower speeds. I've noticed the direction really depends on road surface, mostly to the right on regular crowned roads but to the left on some streets that have that slope to them. I don't really think it's the control arm either, especially since replacing them didn't change anything dynamically.
I could go back to the stealership and see if they're able to check again.

My alignment specs leaving the shop are as follows:
Front: Camber: L:-1.3 R:-1.1
Caster: L: °3.7 R: °4.2
Toe: L: 0.11 R: 0.10

I didn't really have any fitment issues with getting things lined up during the install, did kinda have to wiggle the end links a bit due to the shorter strut, I also did have to use a rubber mallet to get the control arm in between the subframe and chassis on the large bushing, don't know if that's normal or not but might be worth mentioning.

The fact that there really isn't any noise is the biggest head scratcher, but I can guarantee something isn't right. I'll check back in once I'm able to actually check things out but I've got a good checklist of things to look at now.

 

[mosephuss]

Alrighty so just a little update, I caved and went ahead and ordered a Vibra technics RMM, I noticed a small improvement from the passenger and transmission mounts so maybe the AWR mount is completely shot from the spinout/operating temps. Hoping that'll make a difference in the way my car drives, some of what I'm experiencing is similar to what people describe of failing rear motor mounts.

That's gonna go in on Monday, anybody have tips for install? I've done my RMM before but it looks like I'll have to use the bracket from the OEM motor mount and can't figure out how to get it off of there.

Like I said in the previous comment as well I will be more or less reinstalling the front struts, replacing the knuckle bolts and making sure the three top bolts are centered before tightening. On my vehicle they're a little off center from how the OEM strut was installed. And apparently I put the right rear spring on backwards so I'll fix that up too, not upside down, but apparently the pad is facing the wrong direction according to a commenter on Reddit.

Will I need to get another alignment since I'm going to be slightly adjusting things? I'm thinking I'll try to take my car to a performance oriented shop as opposed to the dealership/Les Schwab which is where I've previously gone for alignment work. Might see if my old Subaru shop will take it in but that's unlikely as they typically only do Subarus.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Alrighty so just a little update, I caved and went ahead and ordered a Vibra technics RMM, I noticed a small improvement from the passenger and transmission mounts so maybe the AWR mount is completely shot from the spinout/operating temps. Hoping that'll make a difference in the way my car drives, some of what I'm experiencing is similar to what people describe of failing rear motor mounts.

That's gonna go in on Monday, anybody have tips for install? I've done my RMM before but it looks like I'll have to use the bracket from the OEM motor mount and can't figure out how to get it off of there.

Like I said in the previous comment as well I will be more or less reinstalling the front struts, replacing the knuckle bolts and making sure the three top bolts are centered before tightening. On my vehicle they're a little off center from how the OEM strut was installed. And apparently I put the right rear spring on backwards so I'll fix that up too, not upside down, but apparently the pad is facing the wrong direction according to a commenter on Reddit.

Will I need to get another alignment since I'm going to be slightly adjusting things? I'm thinking I'll try to take my car to a performance oriented shop as opposed to the dealership/Les Schwab which is where I've previously gone for alignment work. Might see if my old Subaru shop will take it in but that's unlikely as they typically only do Subarus.

Use a Rubber mallet and smack it off* It will come off.

 

[mosephuss]

Use a Rubber mallet and smack it off* It will come off.

I dig it, and hopefully getting it on the new mount should be easy? I saw one thread about someone having to bore it a little bigger to fit on the vt mount but I'm guessing the mallet should do the trick both ways?