Is An OEM Quaife LSD Doable Into 2014 Non-ST?

[DaytonaJonah]

Quaife got back to me this morning to confirm that the LSD in the ST200 is NOT the same as what would go into my IB5-speed gearbox. So, that route is closed.

So, I will then need to look to get an "updated" Fiesta gearbox(allowed per rule)

The next question becomes then, other than the addition of the Quaife diff. into the ST200 gearbox...are the ST200 & ST180 gearboxes identical?

If so, will the ST180 gearbox(IB6) mate onto a non-turbo 1.6ltr./16v. motor...removing the IB5 and installing an IB6?

This might be then my next best solution(albeit a more expensive one):
https://pumaspeed.co.uk/product-Ford-Fiesta-ST-180-EcoBoost-Quaife-LSD-Gearbox_19752.jsp

 

[M-Sport fan]

There might have been a final drive (numerical) increase in ratio involved as well with that M-Sport edition/ST200 gearbox, other wise (besides the Quaife installation) it is identical.

Other on here will have to address that IB6 compatibility question for sure, but I always thought that the block castings themselves were the same.

 

[Scotman2]

You might want to contact Burton power in England. They have an application for the Quaife differential for the IB-5 transaxle. They would have all the information about installing that into the basic Fiesta gearbox as well because they also prepare race cars in addition to selling components.
In America, the allowable uprades that can be done in preparing a " production vehicle" based racecar for a given series or class are often refered to as "update-backdate" rules.

 

[Mike King]

Does an NA even produce enough HP to cause inside tirespin on the twisties?

 

[Scotman2]

It really helps for exit speed. Even if there isn't abundant power on tap, being able to use the most power available to the best advantage is a good thing.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

You might want to contact Burton power in England. They have an application for the Quaife differential for the IB-5 transaxle. They would have all the information about installing that into the basic Fiesta gearbox as well because they also prepare race cars in addition to selling components.
In America, the allowable uprades that can be done in preparing a " production vehicle" based racecar for a given series or class are often refered to as "update-backdate" rules.

Put yourself into the position of Rules Director and let me know your opinion is on how the "Updating/Backdating" rule would apply with this scenario I'm facing below:

I'm prepping a 2014 Mk.7 "S" trim Fiesta Hatch 1.6.ltr./16v non-turbo. Down here in Mexico there are the following trim levels available: S, SE, SES, limited edition Titanium, and ST180. I can reach into any of those trims for suspension, motor, transmission "updating" as long as they were offered by the manufacturer(Ford).

Here's been my question from the beginning: Can I also reach into the Mk.7 Fiesta ST200 limited editions that were offered *through* Ford(manufacturer) in Europe? What I want to know is can I use the limited edition M-Sport Ford Fiesta 6-speed IB6 transmission that INCLUDED the FULL FORD FACTORY WARRANTY limited slip differential contractually offered by Quaife? That, is the question for me.

If the answer is "yes", I would gladly invest the money to have an IB6 w/Quaife shipped from England to either me here in Mex. or to my son who is in SoCal to where I can go and fetch it.

Thoughts?

 

[M-Sport fan]

You might want to contact Burton power in England. They have an application for the Quaife differential for the IB-5 transaxle. They would have all the information about installing that into the basic Fiesta gearbox as well because they also prepare race cars in addition to selling components.
In America, the allowable uprades that can be done in preparing a " production vehicle" based racecar for a given series or class are often refered to as "update-backdate" rules.

But, if Jonah's sanctioning body rules stipulate that he can ONLY use setups which were offered that way from the factory, the Burton IB5 option is a no go for him.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

But, if Jonah's sanctioning body rules stipulate that he can ONLY use setups which were offered that way from the factory, the Burton IB5 option is a no go for him.

Correct. In this instance, it would be considered non-factory. What I use must fit into this box here: "Every item belonging to the engine and car transmission must be the original or belonging to the vehicle's model."

The IB6 w/Quaife M-Sport special edition offered by Ford...COULD be construed as fitting that "box". But, I don't want to pull the trigger only to find it doesn't and becomes then a boat anchor.

I'm trying to get a ruling from the Rules Director here but we're having a difficult time connecting this past week because they raced this last weekend. I've been struggling in my mind in how to pose the question with using JUST...THE...RIGHT...WORDING...to engender the response I'm hoping for.

 

[the duke]

Correct. In this instance, it would be considered non-factory. What I use must fit into this box here: "Every item belonging to the engine and car transmission must be the original or belonging to the vehicle's model."

The IB6 w/Quaife M-Sport special edition offered by Ford...COULD be construed as fitting that "box". But, I don't want to pull the trigger only to find it doesn't and becomes then a boat anchor.

I'm trying to get a ruling from the Rules Director here but we're having a difficult time connecting this past week because they raced this last weekend. I've been struggling in my mind in how to pose the question with using JUST...THE...RIGHT...WORDING...to engender the response I'm hoping for.

Yes, in this case you most definitely need an answer from the director before grabbing the part. There might also be a stipulation that up/back dating only applies to cars officially sold in your country, which would make you SOL entirely.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

Yes, in this case you most definitely need an answer from the director before grabbing the part. There might also be a stipulation that up/back dating only applies to cars officially sold in your country, which would make you SOL entirely.

I have yet to connect with the Rules Director, but, I have a bad feeling that your thoughts above might be true. If so, I just want to make certain that within the class there are NO OTHER cars using an LSD...giving them an unfair advantage.
Cars in class that I've seen are:
Chevrolet "Chevy"
Renault Clio
Nissan March
Suzuki Swift

I've landed on the Fiesta because I believe overall it can give me the best platform in which the 'updating' of suspension parts coming from the ST, which IS sold here in Mexico, would be extremely helpful. The Mk.7 trims share many 'bolt-on/in' parts and I believe that will give me at least to my thinking, a competitive car. This class is strange because we're limited in a spec tire that has a minimum 380 UTQG treadwear rating and no option for a LSD(I now believe this - yet without confirmation). Thus, the cars are all driving on hard rubber(like the Big Wheels my kids drove around in my driveway!) and using only one drive wheel on corner exits. To me, this is weird.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

I heard back from the "Rules" Director, who is more title than he is in helpful reality. I texted him Tuesday, he read my text, then I had to text him again yesterday morning. I began my questions with "Is the Mini-Cooper & Ford Fiesta allowed in the 1.6ltr. class?" His response: "The Mini is as long as it's not turbo or supercharger, the Fiesta, no." WHA? I texted back: "Okay. The Fiesta fits all of the engine size, horsepower, and other rules...and comes in several *trim* levels. I can understand the ST-turbo not allowed, but what about the "S" model?" He responded with this brilliant reply: "Yes, but it has to have at least a 6-point roll-cage."
I've come to the conclusion that the Rules Director is of no value to the organization. And, I suspect that no one really abides much to the rules when it suits them, EXCEPT when a gringo shows up to follow said rules and it then exposes everyone for their laxity(read: cheatin'). I may prove to not be a popular addition to this club. As well as being a veteran of the Rolex 24 at Daytona, I'm a former Tech. & Asst. Steward/Chief Steward to a fairly large racing organization in the NW. I may have to Mexican-ize my thinking and attitude down here.

Thanks for all who've contributed thus far.

 

[M-Sport fan]

An old, late '80s/early '90s IMSA team owner/manager named John Bennett said, "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't winnin''. LOL

Also; see Smokey Yunick.

 

[Scotman2]

I think that this sanctioning body might be looking at the Fiesta as a rollover risk if they are going to require a cage install to be allowed on the grid.
380 tread wear tires are nothing that i would have any interest in using on an otherwise "track prepped" car. The idea of that is simply ludicrous. Given that they will destroy themselves in a couple of sessions, are they making a cost benefit argument for these totally unsuitable tires?

 

[DaytonaJonah]

I think that this sanctioning body might be looking at the Fiesta as a rollover risk if they are going to require a cage install to be allowed on the grid.
380 tread wear tires are nothing that i would have any interest in using on an otherwise "track prepped" car. The idea of that is simply ludicrous. Given that they will destroy themselves in a couple of sessions, are they making a cost benefit argument for these totally unsuitable tires?

"Cost benefit" IS their reasoning for going with a 380 UTQG treadwear rated tire...which is ultimately counter-productive in the long run(as you point out). I mentioned earlier in the thread, these rules are very strange to me. Having lived here 9 years now, I have come to a better understanding of why they would do it this way. However, I won't share why that is here in this forum...my opinions and observations are irrelevant to this topic.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

So, we've made the command decision to abandon the Fiesta and opt instead for a Mini Cooper R50 or R56(non-turbo/non-supercharger). The reasons are:
1. Independent rear suspension - standard.
2. Rear disc brakes - standard.
3. The availability of a factory option LSD with a transmission that was offered in Mexico.
4. Racing part$ galore. (Ye$, more expen$ive)
5. Many other non-turbo online race builds available to learn from.
6. Because of the numerous model trims available, this alone allows us to pick and choose from to make our build the best possible...down here under our current rule-set.

I've appreciated those who have contributed their ideas to this thread on my behalf...thanks!

All the best,
DJ

 

[the duke]

So, we've made the command decision to abandon the Fiesta and opt instead for a Mini Cooper R50 or R56(non-turbo/non-supercharger). The reasons are:
1. Independent rear suspension - standard.
2. Rear disc brakes - standard.
3. The availability of a factory option LSD with a transmission that was offered in Mexico.
4. Racing part$ galore. (Ye$, more expen$ive)
5. Many other non-turbo online race builds available to learn from.
6. Because of the numerous model trims available, this alone allows us to pick and choose from to make our build the best possible...down here under our current rule-set.

I've appreciated those who have contributed their ideas to this thread on my behalf...thanks!

All the best,
DJ

After hearing the response you got and how the rules seemed “liberal” I agree that’s a better option.