Cobb Accesstuner update

[subzerospeed]

Thoughts???

sounds likes anyone using a AP is fucked….

EDIT: I was incorrect, thank god. Disabling emissions related trouble codes will no longer be possible.

 

[Ecmdrw5]

Yeah they made changes and seems like they are blaming it on the government.

“The EPA (via the Clean Air Act) and CARB share oversight/regulatory responsibility for our vehicle emissions laws and enforcement. While there are some differences between California regulations and Federal emissions guidelines, their requirements for establishing a reasonable basis that aftermarket/performance products and services don’t negatively impact a vehicle’s emissions system functionality and/or tail pipe emissions output are very similar. In our opinion, a CARB EO is essentially the only practical way to establish emissions compliance for aftermarket/performance products in all 50 states.”

https://www.cobbtuning.com/green-speed-updates-faqs/


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[CarGuy]

Yeah they made changes and seems like they are blaming it on the government.

“The EPA (via the Clean Air Act) and CARB share oversight/regulatory responsibility for our vehicle emissions laws and enforcement. While there are some differences between California regulations and Federal emissions guidelines, their requirements for establishing a reasonable basis that aftermarket/performance products and services don’t negatively impact a vehicle’s emissions system functionality and/or tail pipe emissions output are very similar. In our opinion, a CARB EO is essentially the only practical way to establish emissions compliance for aftermarket/performance products in all 50 states.”

https://www.cobbtuning.com/green-speed-updates-faqs/


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[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

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[Dpro]

Thoughts???

sounds likes anyone using a AP is fucked….

Only Subie‘s there has already been extensive discussion of this and dizzy even posted either here or on FB this does not affect our cars nearly as much as Subie’s. We cam still run E30 tunes.

Yeah they made changes and seems like they are blaming it on the government.

“The EPA (via the Clean Air Act) and CARB share oversight/regulatory responsibility for our vehicle emissions laws and enforcement. While there are some differences between California regulations and Federal emissions guidelines, their requirements for establishing a reasonable basis that aftermarket/performance products and services don’t negatively impact a vehicle’s emissions system functionality and/or tail pipe emissions output are very similar. In our opinion, a CARB EO is essentially the only practical way to establish emissions compliance for aftermarket/performance products in all 50 states.”

Ya they had a gun to their head because of coal roller tuners. The EPA and CARB pretty much said comply or shut down. Like I mentioned earlier this does not really affect us like it does Subie’s. We still can run be tuned for E30 and hold custom tunes on our AP’s. Though if you have any kind of smog test the only legal thing will be the Cobb Stage 1 and 2 Tunes. Though our custom tuners can still tune for our cars.
You guys really need to do your homework before freaking out like it’s the end of the world.

Oh and yes my AP is updated with those tunes and it still has my custom tunes for my S280 on it . So ya research before jumping to conclusion .

 

[dhminer]

Only Subie‘s there has already been extensive discussion of this and dizzy even posted either here or on FB this does not affect our cars nearly as much as Subie’s. We cam still run E30 tunes.



Ya they had a gun to their head because of coal roller tuners. The EPA and CARB pretty much said comply or shut down. Like I mentioned earlier this does not really affect us like it does Subie’s. We still can run be tuned for E30 and hold custom tunes on our AP’s. Though if you have any kind of smog test the only legal thing will be the Cobb Stage 1 and 2 Tunes. Though our custom tuners can still tune for our cars.
You guys really need to do your homework before freaking out like it’s the end of the world.

Oh and yes my AP is updated with those tunes and it still has my custom tunes for my S280 on it . So ya research before jumping to conclusion .

Right. Pretty simple for us. If you’re in the middle of tuning or not tuned yet, you need to run a catted dp or defouter.

 

[ghodge]

So is it confirmed that I can still plan on proceeding with upgrading my stock turbo to a S280 next year without fear of not being able to get a custom tune for it?

 

[dhminer]

So is it confirmed that I can still plan on proceeding with upgrading my stock turbo to a S280 next year without fear of not being able to get a custom tune for it?

Yes

 

[jmrtsus]

Yeah they made changes and seems like they are blaming it on the government.

“The EPA (via the Clean Air Act) and CARB share oversight/regulatory responsibility for our vehicle emissions laws and enforcement. While there are some differences between California regulations and Federal emissions guidelines, their requirements for establishing a reasonable basis that aftermarket/performance products and services don’t negatively impact a vehicle’s emissions system functionality and/or tail pipe emissions output are very similar. In our opinion, a CARB EO is essentially the only practical way to establish emissions compliance for aftermarket/performance products in all 50 states.”

https://www.cobbtuning.com/green-speed-updates-faqs/


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Sounds like they can't afford to get EPA certification, do they really think they can con the EPA into accepting a Cali E.O.? The feds will not open that door. A CARB E.O. does not meet EPA fed law requirements, I bet Cobb will not EPA certify any tune other than a new Stage 1, maybe. Only Cali requires CARB none of the other 49 states do. So where is the sharing they claim? Only Cali! The EPA certifies for all 50 states, that is what the EPA law requires, not CARB, that is a state law. From these silly responses I would say they are going to be hammered by the Feds.
Did anyone really believe the post that claimed they would just send everyone an E.O. They crawfished the next day, LOL. Even the employees have no clue what is coming for Cobb. The new AP's will not be a "defeat device" according to Cobb. In other words the new AP cannot support illegal tunes as it would still be a "defeat device" and illegal to sell.

They are in deep do-do. The fine is like $10K for every single AP and illegal part or tune they sold or installed over the years. So what? Millions? The legal documents posted on this thread shows one tuner was charged for selling 3 of these AP's along with many other parts like cat less pipes, all considered defeat devices in the court order, Cobb, Mountune and Stratified has sold how many of them?
As the article says listed below, they are not answering questions to reporters, and it appears the employees are also in the dark. In other words they have lawyered up. The parent company of Cobb (Auto Meter) shows $50 million in sales.....NOT profits. Not a very big company. In a plea the feds gives you only 30 days to pay or the amount goes through the roof.

Link to magazine article on Cobb
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a39826753/cobb-emissions-lockout/

I love Cobb's attitude of; you bought it knowing it was illegal but we will no longer break the law by supporting what we illegally sold you. We believe we can look like we care now to the EPA and get lower fines. In other words eat chit and die past customers, we know you will never buy from us again as we pledged not to sell illegal stuff any longer. As often demonstrated, lawyers have no immunity from stupidity.

FiST On!

 

[Mikey456]

The Carb EO does meet EPA requirements because the Feds dropped their lawsuit against California being able to set their own “stricter” emissions laws. One reason that Cobb wants to 50 state legal is probably for practical reasons. By the way I would have like to read the article but I’m not a “member” Oh well.

 

[jmrtsus]

The Carb EO does meet EPA requirements becase the Feds dropped their lawsuit against California being able to set their own “stricter” emissions laws. One reason that Cobb wants to 50 state legal is probably for practical reasons. By the way I would have like to read the article but I’m not a “member” Oh well.

The Carb EO does meet EPA requirements because the Feds dropped their lawsuit against California being able to set their own “stricter” emissions laws. One reason that Cobb wants to 50 state legal is probably for practical reasons. By the way I would have like to read the article but I’m not a “member” Oh well.

It does not meet requirements, that's why Cobb is trying to get the EPA to accept it. By Fed law the EPA test procedures must be used.....not CARB's tests. And the Fed law will not allow state law to supersede Fed laws. That means they must certify to the EPA not CARB. EPA could care less about CARB.......like the other 49 states. You can still read the article..... just go to the R&T web site.

 

[CarGuy]

It does not meet requirements, that's why Cobb is trying to get the EPA to accept it. By Fed law the EPA test procedures must be used.....not CARB's tests. And the Fed law will not allow state law to supersede Fed laws. That means they must certify to the EPA not CARB. EPA could care less about CARB.......like the other 49 states. You can still read the article..... just go to the R&T web site.

Several other states have adapted the CARB emissions standards so its not just California. "There are a growing number of CARB states including California, Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Washington D.C. Most of these states have strict emission standards and require vehicles to be tested annually or biennially (every other year)."

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[jmrtsus]

Several other states have adapted the CARB emissions standards so its not just California. "There are a growing number of CARB states including California, Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Washington D.C. Most of these states have strict emission standards and require vehicles to be tested annually or biennially (every other year)."

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You are correct, I forgot about the other dummies. But thankfully none I visit. I lied, we will spend time and many miles in PA for vacation this year. We do 4-6K per year in our FiST each summer.
Cali has the most restrictive laws that are seldom enforced. Carb is a typical Cali bad joke. I had a conversation with my Senator and her crew who said they had looked into it already. They said CARB costs currently are about $3k per vehicle to the makers. I am and others are also trying to get her to sponsor a bill removing costs from a cars nationwide cost basis to just the cars sold in the states that require it, but its cost would be closer to $6K over MSRP for CARB cars and cause a drop in sales without passing the costs to all car buyers. So getting support from states manufacturing cars and assemblies could be hard. Like here in TN, many cars built here so she does not want to do that dance. I don't want to subsidize someone else new car. Why should all consumers pay for another states increases in car costs?
We finally no longer have annual inspections after over 20 mandatory years here. FiST on! Thanks for the correction!

 

[CarGuy]

You are correct, I forgot about the other dummies. But thankfully none I visit. I lied, we will spend time and many miles in PA for vacation this year. We do 4-6K per year in our FiST each summer.
Cali has the most restrictive laws that are seldom enforced. Carb is a typical Cali bad joke. I had a conversation with my Senator and her crew who said they had looked into it already. They said CARB costs currently are about $3k per vehicle to the makers. I am and others are also trying to get her to sponsor a bill removing costs from a cars nationwide cost basis to just the cars sold in the states that require it, but its cost would be closer to $6K over MSRP for CARB cars and cause a drop in sales without passing the costs to all car buyers. So getting support from states manufacturing cars and assemblies could be hard. Like here in TN, many cars built here so she does not want to do that dance. I don't want to subsidize someone else new car. Why should all consumers pay for another states increases in car costs?
We finally no longer have annual inspections after over 20 mandatory years here. FiST on! Thanks for the correction!

I disagree with you about CARB. California used to have some of the worst air quality especially the greater L.A. and San Diego areas and with CARB it has improved immensely. I lived in both San Diego and Orange County where I traveled every day to Los Angeles and the air is better. CARB is enforced. Just ask anyone who lives there. I'd venture to guess that you have not lived there or visited and that what you are saying is based on hearsay and not personal experience.

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[SrsBsns]

Ok, so I haven't done anything with my AP. Do I need to plug it in to my computer to update it, or if I just leave it as-is, will it be fine?

 

[jmrtsus]

I disagree with you about CARB. California used to have some of the worst air quality especially the greater L.A. and San Diego areas and with CARB it has improved immensely. I lived in both San Diego and Orange County where I traveled every day to Los Angeles and the air is better. CARB is enforced. Just ask anyone who lives there. I'd venture to guess that you have not lived there or visited and that what you are saying is based on hearsay and not personal experience.

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Your guessing is pretty poor, I'd stop or get better at it. I first spent time in CA 52 years ago in 1969 when you could still see the brown air. Were you there then? My business had me traveling to CA multiple times a year until I retired from that business in 2000. My next career had me in Sacramento 6-8 times a year plus other CA locations. Lived in AZ for 3 years on a job and frequented CA often. I have seen the improvements long ago and was out there for the last time 5 years ago and have no reason to go back any longer. I had a sister living in Cupertino I visited many times. Unlike CA we were tested here annually no mater what year your car was. That also included a visual inspection for a cat each year. Last time in LA we got tired of the junk cars with fart can noise and blowing smoke in LA not to mention rolling smoke in diesels. Enforcement? Not in LA that we saw for that week! LOL.

The Clean Air Act of 1963 preceded CARB (1967) by 4 years. The EPA fed laws cleaned the air, CARB added to the work of the EPA in CA. They created no miraculous clean-up. Pollution control devices did not appear until 1971 on cars and by mid 70's even the V8's were only about 150 HP. I lived and drove throughout that era and was a strong supporter of the CAA of 1970 giving the feds more authority to enforce more stringent rules. And now we have performance and clean cars unless you chose to go back to the old days. This thread shows the EPA has had enough and will do something. Making clean power can be done, but not cheaply.

 

[Dpro]

Your guessing is pretty poor, I'd stop or get better at it. I first spent time in CA 52 years ago in 1969 when you could still see the brown air. Were you there then? My business had me traveling to CA multiple times a year until I retired from that business in 2000. My next career had me in Sacramento 6-8 times a year plus other CA locations. Lived in AZ for 3 years on a job and frequented CA often. I have seen the improvements long ago and was out there for the last time 5 years ago and have no reason to go back any longer. I had a sister living in Cupertino I visited many times. Unlike CA we were tested here annually no mater what year your car was. That also included a visual inspection for a cat each year. Last time in LA we got tired of the junk cars with fart can noise and blowing smoke in LA not to mention rolling smoke in diesels. Enforcement? Not in LA that we saw for that week! LOL.

The Clean Air Act of 1963 preceded CARB (1967) by 4 years. The EPA fed laws cleaned the air, CARB added to the work of the EPA in CA. They created no miraculous clean-up. Pollution control devices did not appear until 1971 on cars and by mid 70's even the V8's were only about 150 HP. I lived and drove throughout that era and was a strong supporter of the CAA of 1970 giving the feds more authority to enforce more stringent rules. And now we have performance and clean cars unless you chose to go back to the old days. This thread shows the EPA has had enough and will do something. Making clean power can be done, but not cheaply.

Your comments about CARB date back to a earlier time . They have and do exceed Federal EPA standards for years . That’s a known fact you should do some more research if you don’t think so.
A far as Violators go there will be violators everywheree just because you were in LA 5 years ago and saw some does not mean enforcement is not happening .
Anyways your claim that COBB making their stuff 50 state compliant as a way to bypass complying with EPA regs is ridiculous since like I already said it’s a known fact that they exceed EPA . The EPA tried to sue CARB to make CARB soften their rules not make them stronger. The EPA lost that lawsuit. Effectively like it or not the CARB certs are the safest way for COBB to be legal in 50 states period .

 

[Mikey456]

Ok, so I haven't done anything with my AP. Do I need to plug it in to my computer to update it, or if I just leave it as-is, will it be fine?

I think it depends from what I’ve heard. If you are running your factory cat you should be fine to update. If not you can keep running tune but I think there is possible risks to future smog inspections and no future support from Cobb. That’s my take.

 

[Dpro]

I think it depends from what I’ve heard. If you are running your factory cat you should be fine to update. If not you can keep running tune but I think there is possible risks to future smog inspections and no future support from Cobb. That’s my take.

He does need to update his stage I and II tunes to the latest versions. If he wants full support. Koozy actually smogged his 2014 a couple months ago on a CoBB stage 3 tune I believe. He actually posted about it. So ya previous Cobb tunes will pass but they also claimed on the last update that the tunes that were updated were better than previous versions. I update my AP to the latest firmware and those tunes and still retained my S280 tunes like I mentioned earlier.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Several other states have adapted the CARB emissions standards so its not just California. "There are a growing number of CARB states including California, Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Washington D.C. Most of these states have strict emission standards and require vehicles to be tested annually or biennially (every other year)."

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Unless they have changed the procedures, Joyzee's inspection is a once every two years OBD2 plug-in (and I am not too sure just how far they even go with that, as they used to allow 1 out of the three required 'readiness monitors' to NOT be ready and still pass, and I doubt that they check the ECM's programming for aftermarket tunes), NO tailpipe, or tailpipe on the rollers checks, and basically NO other visual checks.

They used to use mirrors and check to see if the factory catcons were there, or even what looked like factory catcons, and do that gas cap EVAP leak check with the (vacuum?) machine, but not even sure that they do those anymore either.

Pennsyltucky on the other hand has a full, MUST be done at an approved; dealer, shop, etc., vehicle inspection where they check for catcons, do an OBD2 plug-in, check wheel bearings, tire tread depth, loose steering, parking brake hold, and pull two diagonal wheels to actually MEASURE the pads and rotor thicknesses, and then 'test drive' your ride.

As far as I've ever heard this is the most draconian of any U.S. state inspections, as only the German TUV and other Euro countries could possibly have more stringent inspections

 

[SrsBsns]

I think it depends from what I’ve heard. If you are running your factory cat you should be fine to update. If not you can keep running tune but I think there is possible risks to future smog inspections and no future support from Cobb. That’s my take.

Yeah, factory cat and DP.

He does need to update his stage I and II tunes to the latest versions. If he wants full support. Koozy actually smogged his 2014 a couple months ago on a CoBB stage 3 tune I believe. He actually posted about it. So ya previous Cobb tunes will pass but they also claimed on the last update that the tunes that were updated were better than previous versions. I update my AP to the latest firmware and those tunes and still retained my S280 tunes like I mentioned earlier.

I'm running a Stratified E30 and 91 tune so I'm not using the Cobb OTS Stage 1 and 2 tunes. I was planning flashing back to the stock tune when I go for smog later this year but just wasn't sure if there was any reason or rush to plug it in and update it.