Pumaspeed Ported Manifold vs Whoosh Ported

[stadlxr]

Defensive much? I'm not harping about anything. Just starting a discussion for a logical question. Two items of identical description at different price points. Can we discuss that without a vendor on attack? Your tone was wholly unnecessary.

Anyway...I stand mildly corrected. If I don't send my spare mani to them the price is 228 shipped. Still not $400.

I thought it would be beneficial to fellow FiST owners to start a conversation about it. My apologies for not accounting for shipping my mani back to them. No BS, I will absolutely go through each post in this thread and change 155 to 228 for accuracy but that won't change the point much.

And I haven't actually seen the port work of EITHER manifold firsthand. Pics of the porting are available on the respective websites of both the options. But we all know that whatever we see on the web must be true, right? Plus pics are largely irrelevant since each HAND ported mani will look different, ya know, hand ported?

You're argument is, and I'm paraphrasing, "Hey I'm Ron sooooo my shit's just better. They suck, shipping sucks, pay now." My argument is that hand porting is an art. And art isn't necessarily better just because it costs more, let's discuss. I even mentioned that you provide local support in my response to Old Mike. As RMMs fail, you are quick to replace. I've defended you in other threads and have spent money with you! And maybe will continue too if I feel you offer the best item for the best price. In the case of the manifold, that MAAAAAYYYYYY not be true. Maybe I should start a thread to discuss??? oh wait.....

What your argument should be is that you're an American company that has supported us and will continue to. Not bash me and Puma.



Uncalled for...I never said hey, Ron's shit sucks. Simply asked why we should pay more for yet another hand ported oem mani. I never even compared performance. This is strictly a price point comparison asking my community here for their opinions. Thin skins can just stay out of my thread if all you have to offer is sarcasm and insults.

But hey, if you think your artist is worth more than Puma's artist, you have EVERY RIGHT to advertise that and charge whatever you like. Just like we as consumers have every right to discuss alternatives that may or may not be better.

Again, my sincerest apologies for being $73 off the mark...allow me to create your rebuttal for you...."But guys, I answer emails. Is that worth the extra $73" To which the discussion would likely come to an end. And we'd all know that, yea Puma is cheaper, may even be better, but Ron is my dude and Im gonna keep supporting him. But that's not AT ALL what you did there huh cowboy?

My local supplier for PumaSpeed in RSA has a ported mani on stock for 2400ZAR which is 150$ free shipping. I can ask for pictures if you want

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

That was my assumption but wanted to make sure there weren't any surprise costs with the puma mani



And therein lies the question. Why would you pay 400 for something you can buy for 228? Is it for local support? Although I don't see a real need for support with a hand ported mani.

Congrats! That quickspool mani is pricey but pure sex. I would if I could but I can't so I won't

I paid $1243 for the Garret GT2554r, the Pumaspeed manifold, HKS bov, Tidal bov and assorted lines shipped, pictures in my build posts.

 

[LilPartyBox]

My local supplier for PumaSpeed in RSA has a ported mani on stock for 2400ZAR which is 150$ free shipping. I can ask for pictures if you want

Pics would absolutely add value to this thread. thanks!

 

[stadlxr]

Asking my contact at the supplier 👍🏼

Pics would absolutely add value to this thread. thanks!

 

[Raziel510]

I'm willing to do most work on my car myself but someone with experience will do this better than i will.

I thought the same thing when I was looking for a manifold. If you're willing to do the work then just do it. Don't doubt yourself, just buy the tools and start. You'll feel proud that you did the work yourself. Yes someone else has more experience but you will gain the experience as well.

Ok soapbox speech over. If you want to save money do it yourself if not just buy whatever you want. It's your money. 😊

 

[Jabbit]

I thought the same thing when I was looking for a manifold. If you're willing to do the work then just do it. Don't doubt yourself, just buy the tools and start. You'll feel proud that you did the work yourself. Yes someone else has more experience but you will gain the experience as well.

Ok soapbox speech over. If you want to save money do it yourself if not just buy whatever you want. It's your money. 😊

Everyone has a different time/value ratio and what works for one person won't work for another. I work on my cars for hobby and relaxation, not because it saves money.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

I'm all for wasting time on a car as long as it makes an improvement, Hand porting without the extrude honing will yield little to no improvement. The turbo makes up for a lot of short comings of the stock manifold. All the turbo builds I'm seen they either use stock manifolds, or purpose-built ones. It's the same with porting the throttle body. When I was doing R&D with the Contour platform we never and I mean never saw any gains on the dyno from any hand porting of anything. It's just the way it was.

 

[Dpro]

I'm all for wasting time on a car as long as it makes an improvement, Hand porting without the extrude honing will yield little to no improvement. The turbo makes up for a lot of short comings of the stock manifold. All the turbo builds I'm seen they either use stock manifolds, or purpose-built ones. It's the same with porting the throttle body. When I was doing R&D with the Contour platform we never and I mean never saw any gains on the dyno from any hand porting of anything. It's just the way it was.

Not to rain on anyones parade but it’s not proven that extrude honing really gives that much gain increase to make it worth the cost. IMO
Nobody had flowbenched an extrude honed manifold vs stock to see the gains. The old AET ported manifold in the UK I believe was flow benched as they had increases gains they claimed.
I am not sure if Pumaspeed has flow. benched theirs. Port matching will give an improvent,
flow wise it’s a given though it could be minor.
I would say if one has some free time and can do it it would be a fun exercise. Otherwise either buy one or don’t bother. What people seem to miss here is when your talking about a NA porting IMO is a lot more important. With forced induction its not as critical as you are already pushing shit to start
Will it help? Sure, does it work in the laws of diminishing returns? Thats a head scratcher. Extrude Honed definitely too expensive for the returns in my eyes.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

Not to rain on anyones parade but it’s not proven that extrude honing really gives that much gain increase to make it worth the cost. IMO
Nobody had flowbenched an extrude honed manifold vs stock to see the gains. The old AET ported manifold in the UK I believe was flow benched as they had increases gains they claimed.
I am not sure if Pumaspeed has flow. benched theirs. Port matching will give an improvent,
flow wise it’s a given though it could be minor.
I would say if one has some free time and can do it it would be a fun exercise. Otherwise either buy one or don’t bother. What people seem to miss here is when your talking about a NA porting IMO is a lot more important. With forced induction its not as critical as you are already pushing shit to start
Will it help? Sure, does it work in the laws of diminishing returns? Thats a head scratcher. Extrude Honed definitely too expensive for the returns in my eyes.

The extrude honing experience. One of the upgrades with the SVT Contour was that the intake manifold was extrude honed from the factory. We did an intake swap on my car, took the SVT intake off my buddies car and put it on my car. I already had the SVT computer installed and the SVT injectors that are 19lbs, the stock Contour injectors are 16lbs,. My car dynode with stock intake at 190hp, with the SVT 195hp so it was good for 5hp. Now this was over 10 years ago, at the time to get an intake extrude hone was north of $500. I decided $500 was not worth 5hp. Just to finish the story, I ended up putting a 3 liter intake off of a Taurus on my 2.5L, last dyno pull showed 224hp, I paid $10 at the junk yard for the intake.

 

[Dpro]

The extrude honing experience. One of the upgrades with the SVT Contour was that the intake manifold was extrude honed from the factory. We did an intake swap on my car, took the SVT intake off my buddies car and put it on my car. I already had the SVT computer installed and the SVT injectors that are 19lbs, the stock Contour injectors are 16lbs,. My car dynode with stock intake at 190hp, with the SVT 195hp so it was good for 5hp. Now this was over 10 years ago, at the time to get an intake extrude hone was north of $500. I decided $500 was not worth 5hp. Just to finish the story, I ended up putting a 3 liter intake off of a Taurus on my 2.5L, last dyno pull showed 224hp, I paid $10 at the junk yard for the intake.

Ya the extrude honed exhaust Ron was selling was like $400-500 I just felt like ya for that kind of money the gains were probably not large enough cost wise. I don’t think he is selling it anymore. Last time I was on his site all I saw was ported manifolds.

 

[LilPartyBox]

I agree that hand porting the first couple of inches, even with a port match, isn't gonna do much. Hence my question of why spend more for tiny gains when you can spend less! I'm gonna see if COVID has affected the business of my local machine shops enough for extrude honing bring pricing down to something reasonable. IF not, then I'll just wait for @Old Mike Emerson to part out his sexy mani in a few years

I thought the same thing when I was looking for a manifold. If you're willing to do the work then just do it. Don't doubt yourself, just buy the tools and start. You'll feel proud that you did the work yourself. Yes someone else has more experience but you will gain the experience as well.

Ok soapbox speech over. If you want to save money do it yourself if not just buy whatever you want. It's your money. 😊

Everyone has a different time/value ratio and what works for one person won't work for another. I work on my cars for hobby and relaxation, not because it saves money.

Iol I don't doubt myself. I just know my limitations and can't be bothered with it. Like Jabbit said, time/value ratio and the minor gains this will bring aren't worth the hours to me. I'd rather be doing any number of things. Like spring is almost here and I gotta get my bike ready!

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

I agree that hand porting the first couple of inches, even with a port match, isn't gonna do much. Hence my question of why spend more for tiny gains when you can spend less! I'm gonna see if COVID has affected the business of my local machine shops enough for extrude honing bring pricing down to something reasonable. IF not, then I'll just wait for @Old Mike Emerson to part out his sexy mani in a few years





Iol I don't doubt myself. I just know my limitations and can't be bothered with it. Like Jabbit said, time/value ratio and the minor gains this will bring aren't worth the hours to me. I'd rather be doing any number of things. Like spring is almost here and I gotta get my bike ready!

The sexy manifold is not going anywhere. LOL

 

[esp_martin]

First off, RIP Old Mike. You were a true gangsta on this forum. I think every person still active on this thread should give that man his flowers for all the research and knowledge he imparted.

Second, to revive a dead thread. I actually bought the Vudu/AET CNC machined OEM manifold and had it delivered stateside if anyone's interested in measurements. When the British Pound tanked for a couple weeks I really couldn't pass on all the sweet stuff a lot of those Queen&Country tuners had up on offer and AET had a discounted shipping rate compared to what it usually is (bad news, it's back up to $100+ last I checked).

If anyone has interest I can post pics/measurements. Plan on getting it ceramic coated at a local shop sometime in the near future.

 

[Alkoran]

First off, RIP Old Mike. You were a true gangsta on this forum. I think every person still active on this thread should give that man his flowers for all the research and knowledge he imparted.

Second, to revive a dead thread. I actually bought the Vudu/AET CNC machined OEM manifold and had it delivered stateside if anyone's interested in measurements. When the British Pound tanked for a couple weeks I really couldn't pass on all the sweet stuff a lot of those Queen&Country tuners had up on offer and AET had a discounted shipping rate compared to what it usually is (bad news, it's back up to $100+ last I checked).

If anyone has interest I can post pics/measurements. Plan on getting it ceramic coated at a local shop sometime in the near future.

AET are really nice people to do business with. When I asked for them to check if they could find cheaper shipping rate because that's the only thing keeping me from buying, they did just that and swapped for Royal Mail for me. Instead of the standard 25£ quoted by the website, I paid 8£ for shipping on the chassis lockdown kit.

 

[esp_martin]

AET are really nice people to do business with. When I asked for them to check if they could find cheaper shipping rate because that's the only thing keeping me from buying, they did just that and swapped for Royal Mail for me. Instead of the standard 25£ quoted by the website, I paid 8£ for shipping on the chassis lockdown kit.

that's pretty funny as what drew me to AET was the chassis lockdown kit as well and then stuck around and window-shopped for a bit. all told I think i paid the standard 25£ which for what i got (including the manifold) i thought was more than fair. they *definitely* didn't send it Royal Mail as it was at my doorstep on the East Coast three days later.

and couldn't agree more on how nice AET was with me. i accidentally picked the manifold exchange which was a mistake. They corrected it and only charged me 50£ more to not exchange.

 

[M-Sport fan]

First off, RIP Old Mike. You were a true gangsta on this forum. I think every person still active on this thread should give that man his flowers for all the research and knowledge he imparted.

Second, to revive a dead thread. I actually bought the Vudu/AET CNC machined OEM manifold and had it delivered stateside if anyone's interested in measurements. When the British Pound tanked for a couple weeks I really couldn't pass on all the sweet stuff a lot of those Queen&Country tuners had up on offer and AET had a discounted shipping rate compared to what it usually is (bad news, it's back up to $100+ last I checked).

If anyone has interest I can post pics/measurements. Plan on getting it ceramic coated at a local shop sometime in the near future.

Did you purchase this in anticipation of installing something more substantial than the factory snail in the (near) future??

If so, and if you are not doing that installation yourself, where are you getting this done?

 

[esp_martin]

Did you purchase this in anticipation of installing something more substantial than the factory snail in the (near) future??

If so, and if you are not doing that installation yourself, where are you getting this done?

Yes, decided to go the TT S280 route and thought better to hook the manifold and turbo up beforehand and I do plan on installing myself. Most likely when I visit my parents and their sweet-sweet two car garage for a long weekend. I thought to go the shop route but the whole reason I started down this path was to learn everything I could about this car. I'll probably use the money I'm saving to over-purchase on tubing, clamps, feed lines, etc so if I do run into an issue I won't have to wait on parts while my daily is sitting on jack stands.

There's a local shop north of Philly that quoted me a great price to ceramic coat the manifold and turbo housing so I'll have that done sometime in the next few months. I won't be installing this stuff until April or May.

Funny aside, I told the shop that the turbo housing and manifold are tiny and they responded, "you know we specialize in motorcyle parts, right?" soooo maybe not that tiny to them... (the guy said they service anything up to V8s so it won't be a problem)

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, decided to go the TT S280 route and thought better to hook the manifold and turbo up beforehand and I do plan on installing myself. Most likely when I visit my parents and their sweet-sweet two car garage for a long weekend. I thought to go the shop route but the whole reason I started down this path was to learn everything I could about this car. I'll probably use the money I'm saving to over-purchase on tubing, clamps, feed lines, etc. so if I do run into an issue I won't have to wait on parts while my daily is sitting on jack stands.

There's a local shop north of Philly that quoted me a great price to ceramic coat the manifold and turbo housing so I'll have that done sometime in the next few months. I won't be installing this stuff until April or May.

Funny aside, I told the shop that the turbo housing and manifold are tiny and they responded, "you know we specialize in motorcycle parts, right?" soooo maybe not that tiny to them... (the guy said they service anything up to V8s so it won't be a problem)

That Cerakote shop would not happen to be in Feasterville-Trevose, would it?

 

[esp_martin]

That Cerakote shop would not happen to be in Feasterville-Trevose, would it?

lol! yes, yes it would be.