Pumaspeed Ported Manifold vs Whoosh Ported

[LilPartyBox]

I've got to wonder why the Pumaspeed ported OEM manifold is $228 shipped while Whoosh wants $400 (no ceramic). In the end they are both hand ported, oem manifolds. I have a spare manifold so there won't be a core charge or any downtime. I may just order the Puma in the next few months and sit it on the shelf next the DP while i save up for an S280. What am I missing here?

 

[Raziel510]

Just do it yourself if you're going to be sitting it on the shelf and saving up for the s280. I bought an extra manifold for $70 and spent about $20 on some grinding stones, polishing discs, and sheets of sandpaper took about three hours.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

Is there any dyno testing? Before and after numbers. From my experience, not with this exhaust manifold per say, but with other cars, minimal to no gains are made porting the stock cast iron exhaust, matching the exhaust port to the manifold would smooth out flow, but it would be negligible gain overall. That is why headers are made. I posted a video about exhaust manifold design a while back.

 

[Jason@dizzytuning]

I've got to wonder why the Pumaspeed ported OEM manifold is $155 shipped while Whoosh wants $400 (no ceramic). In the end they are both hand ported, oem manifolds. I have a spare manifold so there won't be a core charge or any downtime. I may just order the Puma in the next few months and sit it on the shelf next the DP while i save up for an S280. What am I missing here?

Shipping

 

[Woods247]

The Whoosh manifold I have is extrude honed and ported. Is that the same one you’re looking at? Here’s the thread: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...de-honed-turbo-manifold-1-6l-fiesta-st.21133/

 

[dhminer]

Not all honing and porting is equal like Woods alluded to. It’s probably a minimal difference ultimately, but maybe not. Who knows. I have WOR’s ported manifold and it seems to be done extremely well.

 

[LilPartyBox]

Just do it yourself if you're going to be sitting it on the shelf and saving up for the s280. I bought an extra manifold for $70 and spent about $20 on some grinding stones, polishing discs, and sheets of sandpaper took about three hours.

I'm willing to do most work on my car myself but someone with experience will do this better than i will.

The Whoosh manifold I have is extrude honed and ported. Is that the same one you’re looking at? Here’s the thread: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...de-honed-turbo-manifold-1-6l-fiesta-st.21133/

Read the description on Whoosh's site. It clearly says hand ported in the first sentence...If it were extrude honed i'd happily pay 400.

Not all honing and porting is equal like Woods alluded to. It’s probably a minimal difference ultimately, but maybe not. Who knows. I have WOR’s ported manifold and it seems to be done extremely well.

True but a higher price doesn't necessarily equal better quality.

Is there any dyno testing? Before and after numbers. From my experience, not with this exhaust manifold per say, but with other cars, minimal to no gains are made porting the stock cast iron exhaust, matching the exhaust port to the manifold would smooth out flow, but it would be negligible gain overall. That is why headers are made. I posted a video about exhaust manifold design a while back.

Agreed. the gains will not be earth shattering which is why I've been looking for more cost effective options. At 400 it doesn't make bang for buck. But at $228? That i would do. Even if it only meant 3 or 4% gains across the curve. Now, does anybody know how VAT works?

 

[Dpro]

I'm willing to do most work on my car myself but someone with experience will do this better than i will.



Read the description on Whoosh's site. It clearly says hand ported in the first sentence...If it were extrude honed i'd happily pay 400.



True but a higher price doesn't necessarily equal better quality.



Agreed. the gains will not be earth shattering which is why I've been looking for more cost effective options. At 400 it doesn't make bang for buck. But at $155? That i would do. Even if it only meant 3 or 4% gains across the curve. Now, does anybody know how VAT works?

All these points are why I elected to stick with the stock manifold on my S280. Perhaps with something like an Airtec equal tube length manifold you might pick up a few hp and it might spool a 100 or 200 rpm faster. Though the overall picture of cost vs returns is not large enough to warrant spending 400 or more. I agree I could see doing it myself to see if I get gains or spending 100-200 . Above that price it’s like a ya no situation.

As far as the VAT goes I believe there is a pull down to state it’s going to the U.S. and it converts to U.S. dollars which no longer includes VAT. They cannot charge out of country people VAT it’s a British Sales tax thing.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

I'm willing to do most work on my car myself but someone with experience will do this better than i will.



Read the description on Whoosh's site. It clearly says hand ported in the first sentence...If it were extrude honed i'd happily pay 400.



True but a higher price doesn't necessarily equal better quality.



Agreed. the gains will not be earth shattering which is why I've been looking for more cost effective options. At 400 it doesn't make bang for buck. But at $155? That i would do. Even if it only meant 3 or 4% gains across the curve. Now, does anybody know how VAT works?

VAT does not apply to U.S. orders.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

If I was to use a stock type exhaust manifold, I would without a doubt use the Whoosh, for the price it is a great manifold. I bought a Pumaspeed quick spool as a package deal with the Garret turbo. So, I will be using that, just because I have it.

 

[LilPartyBox]

VAT does not apply to U.S. orders.

That was my assumption but wanted to make sure there weren't any surprise costs with the puma mani

If I was to use a stock type exhaust manifold, I would without a doubt use the Whoosh, for the price it is a great manifold. I bought a Pumaspeed quick spool as a package deal with the Garret turbo. So, I will be using that, just because I have it.

And therein lies the question. Why would you pay 400 for something you can buy for 228? Is it for local support? Although I don't see a real need for support with a hand ported mani.

Congrats! That quickspool mani is pricey but pure sex. I would if I could but I can't so I won't

 

[ron@whoosh]

That was my assumption but wanted to make sure there weren't any surprise costs with the puma mani



And therein lies the question. Why would you pay 400 for something you can buy for 155? Is it for local support? Although I don't see a real need for support with a hand ported mani.

Congrats! That quickspool mani is pricey but pure sex. I would if I could but I can't so I won't

please use correct "maths" if you want to compare purchases
our manifold is an outright shipped price which means you would select that same option on the Puma site plus shipping to the USA

if you want to pay more than buying outright, by all means send your manifold to the UK and then pay their price plus shipping back.

Anyway, our port work pics are posted and shown on the whoosh site
Let's see some pics of this wonderful $155 port job you keep harping about. I'm sure there are pictures of the actual port work you are purchasing on their website? I mean you are defending the $155 port work so I'm sure you have pictures of what that porting looks like? You wouldn't post this much about port work that you actually haven't seen yet correct?

 

[Jabbit]

Hmm a known product from a US-based company that returns e-mails/texts/PMs/FB messages quickly, or an unknown product from a UK-based company that wouldn't return my e-mails when I was trying to spend a few $k with them. I know which one I'm going with, Ron for sure - and I have the order history to back it up.

 

[dhminer]

Hmm a known product from a US-based company that returns e-mails/texts/PMs/FB messages quickly, or an unknown product from a UK-based company that wouldn't return my e-mails when I was trying to spend a few $k with them. I know which one I'm going with, Ron for sure - and I have the order history to back it up.

I‘ve sent them a few emails on the quickspool manifold trying to figure out if the v-band one matches the height of a stock manifold + adapter thus fitting the oil return line without modification. Crickets.

 

[LilPartyBox]

please use correct "maths" if you want to compare purchases
our manifold is an outright shipped price which means you would select that same option on the Puma site plus shipping to the USA

if you want to pay more than buying outright, by all means send your manifold to the UK and then pay their price plus shipping back.

Anyway, our port work pics are posted and shown on the whoosh site
Let's see some pics of this wonderful $155 port job you keep harping about. I'm sure there are pictures of the actual port work you are purchasing on their website? I mean you are defending the $155 port work so I'm sure you have pictures of what that porting looks like? You wouldn't post this much about port work that you actually haven't seen yet correct?

Defensive much? I'm not harping about anything. Just starting a discussion for a logical question. Two items of identical description at different price points. Can we discuss that without a vendor on attack? Your tone was wholly unnecessary.

Anyway...I stand mildly corrected. If I don't send my spare mani to them the price is 228 shipped. Still not $400.

I thought it would be beneficial to fellow FiST owners to start a conversation about it. My apologies for not accounting for shipping my mani back to them. No BS, I will absolutely go through each post in this thread and change 155 to 228 for accuracy but that won't change the point much.

And I haven't actually seen the port work of EITHER manifold firsthand. Pics of the porting are available on the respective websites of both the options. But we all know that whatever we see on the web must be true, right? Plus pics are largely irrelevant since each HAND ported mani will look different, ya know, hand ported?

You're argument is, and I'm paraphrasing, "Hey I'm Ron sooooo my shit's just better. They suck, shipping sucks, pay now." My argument is that hand porting is an art. And art isn't necessarily better just because it costs more, let's discuss. I even mentioned that you provide local support in my response to Old Mike. As RMMs fail, you are quick to replace. I've defended you in other threads and have spent money with you! And maybe will continue too if I feel you offer the best item for the best price. In the case of the manifold, that MAAAAAYYYYYY not be true. Maybe I should start a thread to discuss??? oh wait.....

What your argument should be is that you're an American company that has supported us and will continue to. Not bash me and Puma.

I mean you are defending the $155 port work so I'm sure you have pictures of what that porting looks like? You wouldn't post this much about port work that you actually haven't seen yet correct

Uncalled for...I never said hey, Ron's shit sucks. Simply asked why we should pay more for yet another hand ported oem mani. I never even compared performance. This is strictly a price point comparison asking my community here for their opinions. Thin skins can just stay out of my thread if all you have to offer is sarcasm and insults.

But hey, if you think your artist is worth more than Puma's artist, you have EVERY RIGHT to advertise that and charge whatever you like. Just like we as consumers have every right to discuss alternatives that may or may not be better.

Again, my sincerest apologies for being $73 off the mark...allow me to create your rebuttal for you...."But guys, I answer emails. Is that worth the extra $73" To which the discussion would likely come to an end. And we'd all know that, yea Puma is cheaper, may even be better, but Ron is my dude and Im gonna keep supporting him. But that's not AT ALL what you did there huh cowboy?

 

[ron@whoosh]

Defensive much? I'm not harping about anything. Just starting a discussion for a logical question. Two items of identical description at different price points. Can we discuss that without a vendor on attack? Your tone was wholly unnecessary.

Anyway...I stand mildly corrected. If I don't send my spare mani to them the price is 228 shipped. Still not $400.

I thought it would be beneficial to fellow FiST owners to start a conversation about it. My apologies for not accounting for shipping my mani back to them. No BS, I will absolutely go through each post in this thread and change 155 to 228 for accuracy but that won't change the point much.

And I haven't actually seen the port work of EITHER manifold firsthand. Pics of the porting are available on the respective websites of both the options. But we all know that whatever we see on the web must be true, right? Plus pics are largely irrelevant since each HAND ported mani will look different, ya know, hand ported?

You're argument is, and I'm paraphrasing, "Hey I'm Ron sooooo my shit's just better. They suck, shipping sucks, pay now." My argument is that hand porting is an art. And art isn't necessarily better just because it costs more, let's discuss. I even mentioned that you provide local support in my response to Old Mike. As RMMs fail, you are quick to replace. I've defended you in other threads and have spent money with you! And maybe will continue too if I feel you offer the best item for the best price. In the case of the manifold, that MAAAAAYYYYYY not be true. Maybe I should start a thread to discuss??? oh wait.....

What your argument should be is that you're an American company that has supported us and will continue to. Not bash me and Puma.



Uncalled for...I never said hey, Ron's shit sucks. Simply asked why we should pay more for yet another hand ported oem mani. I never even compared performance. This is strictly a price point comparison asking my community here for their opinions. Thin skins can just stay out of my thread if all you have to offer is sarcasm and insults.

But hey, if you think your artist is worth more than Puma's artist, you have EVERY RIGHT to advertise that and charge whatever you like. Just like we as consumers have every right to discuss alternatives that may or may not be better.

Again, my sincerest apologies for being $73 off the mark...allow me to create your rebuttal for you...."But guys, I answer emails. Is that worth the extra $73" To which the discussion would likely come to an end. And we'd all know that, yea Puma is cheaper, may even be better, but Ron is my dude and Im gonna keep supporting him. But that's not AT ALL what you did there huh cowboy?

pics?

 

[ron@whoosh]

Hmm a known product from a US-based company that returns e-mails/texts/PMs/FB messages quickly, or an unknown product from a UK-based company that wouldn't return my e-mails when I was trying to spend a few $k with them. I know which one I'm going with, Ron for sure - and I have the order history to back it up.

thanks, just to confirm we've never said our porting is better than any other product but our porting is done by a company that also ports high end cylinder heads so the hourly rate is not cheap. Our manifolds don't need justification of costing. We can confidently offer the product knowing it's true gasket match, not just half-assed angle edging by a shop runt. You truly get what you pay for with ported and polished parts. If quality work is beyond an intended budget then by all means shop for price. Our backlog of ported manifolds tells the true story.

 

[rallytaff]

VAT does not apply to U.S. orders.

That's why I saved a bunch when I bought my rally stuff from Demon Tweeks. I paid duty on the stuff this end but still saved a ton!

 

[LilPartyBox]

Hmm a known product from a US-based company that returns e-mails/texts/PMs/FB messages quickly, or an unknown product from a UK-based company that wouldn't return my e-mails when I was trying to spend a few $k with them. I know which one I'm going with, Ron for sure - and I have the order history to back it up.

I‘ve sent them a few emails on the quickspool manifold trying to figure out if the v-band one matches the height of a stock manifold + adapter thus fitting the oil return line without modification. Crickets.

I've delt with Ron and have had mostly positive experiences. I've never delt with Puma so thank you for the feedback! There are definitely mixed opinoins here about them. I mean, we have some or our very own stalwarts still singing the praises of the x47. But you both make good points. Honestly, recent events convinced me to start looking for a shop and possibly pay them up to 400 to extrude hone my spare.

 

[LilPartyBox]

thanks, just to confirm we've never said our porting is better than any other product but our porting is done by a company that also ports high end cylinder heads so the hourly rate is not cheap. Our manifolds don't need justification of costing. We can confidently offer the product knowing it's true gasket match, not just half-assed angle edging by a shop runt. You truly get what you pay for with ported and polished parts. If quality work is beyond an intended budget then by all means shop for price. Our backlog of ported manifolds tells the true story.

SEE wasn't that hard, was it?