Fiesta ST Rally and Offroad mods

[Pablo Pistoffo]

That sucks, 30k seems a little premature. I guess it was trying to live up to the stereotype. Why is the FiST better for autocross? Because of the weight?

You know, now that I think about it, I should have attached a giant asterisk to the "fiesta is better at autocross" statement. I only autocrossed my first season with the (largely stock) WRX, and did pretty well. My second season, I had the FiST (built to Street class), and never got a trophy. I moved up to STH the next year, build the car to class, and did a lot better. My second year slump was probably largely due to several factors- learning how to deal with limited traction, being in Open vs Novice class, and just learning the car.
The FiST- especially a car built to class- has advantages in braking, throttle response, and turn-in. It's just a smaller, sharper car, and isn't as hampered by the crap off-boost response of the WRX. I'd love to drive the two of them back to back, though. I think I've changed a lot as a driver over the last couple seasons, and would always like to try more cars.

 

[TurboTim]

Except the Reiger suspension, what else is different on a R2 Fiesta that affects the handling ? & Did M-Sport make anything stronger/stiffer than standard ?

 

[M-Sport fan]

Except the Reiger suspension, what else is different on a R2 Fiesta that affects the handling ? & Did M-Sport make anything stronger/stiffer than standard ?

Obviously they seam/stitch weld the whole gutted and stripped unibody, and then install a fully gusseted/triangulated FIA spec cage fully and totally tied into the unibody and front and rear shock towers (so no need for any additional braces/track bars like everyone does on here).

The tops of the towers are reinforced with a 1/4" of steel plate, and spherical bearings/heim joints are used wherever allowed by the rules.

Not a handling thing, but they increase the 3 pot Ecoboost's power from the factory ~123 ponies up to ~200, and use a floor shifted Sadev 5 speed sequential gearbox, Sparco halo race seats and suede/alcantara covered steering wheel, and an ATL? (I think) fuel cell.

 

[TurboTim]

Now, I wonder if you can buy somewhere those 1/4" steel plates.

So, no reinforced control arms or adjustable linkage or … ?

I always wondered if M-Sport changed the rear suspension setup, so they could run McPherson struts in the rear as well or if they only did this in the R5’s.

On another note, how much heavier are our 5-door Fiesta’s compared to the 3 door versions and wouldn’t that make a difference in the suspension setup ?

 

[M-Sport fan]

One used to be able to buy those reinforcing plates separately from any suspension kits from M-Sport, but not sure if that's the case any longer now that the R2 prepping is out of Poland.

I believe that the FIA requires them to run factory control arms, but maybe they can gusset, seam weld and add spherical bearings to them.
I will look closer at some of them the next time I attend an ARA event (NEFR in mid July).

Due to it being a (somewhat) cost conscious/limiting class, the R2s must run the factory rear beam axle and 'suspension pickup points' (just like the front), but more likely than not they can strengthen and reinforce that as well, and use spherical bearings in it's bushing locations.

I have no idea of the actual weight difference, but it probably is not a huge amount of heft.

Some of the Euro Rally Championship, and Middle Eastern Rally Championship R2s were based on the Mk7 4 door Fiesta, but yes, most were built on the 2 door platform.
I don't know if this has changed with the Mk8s, and they are ALL 2 doors now, or not.

Yes, the R4s/R5s, and of course the actual Rally 1 WRC rides all use pre-approved, FIA regulated, AWD independent rear suspension/subframe/pickup point setups.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Obviously they seam/stitch weld the whole gutted and stripped unibody, and then install a fully gusseted/triangulated FIA spec cage fully and totally tied into the unibody and front and rear shock towers (so no need for any additional braces/track bars like everyone does on here).

The tops of the towers are reinforced with a 1/4" of steel plate, and spherical bearings/heim joints are used wherever allowed by the rules.

Not a handling thing, but they increase the 3 pot Ecoboost's power from the factory ~123 ponies up to ~200, and use a floor shifted Sadev 5 speed sequential gearbox, Sparco halo race seats and suede/alcantara covered steering wheel, and an ATL? (I think) fuel cell.

So an R2 fiesta starts life as a normal fiesta? I know that the wrc cars are purpose build as rally cars, but I like to think that my fiesta could be a true rally car.
Random observation: at some point ken block ( or his wife/daughter) used a fiesta st. I saw it in a team O'Neil video. The FiST looked good in his livery.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, the WRC level/class rally Fiestas all start as base Euro/rest of world 2 door (and rarely 4 door for some of the R2 builds) Fiestas, this includes Ken's wife's R2 which she still campaigns in ARA events occasionally.

The FIA may even allow them to start with a base 'body in white' SHELL of the unibody to save them all of the work of stripping it down, but probably not since they must have a factory serial number, since they are street licensed and insured in the country of origin/build to be able to drive on public roads during the 'transits' between the at full speed, competitive stages.

They then add in all of the FIA approved/homologated 'kits'/parts/engine/drivetrain/bodywork to build them to whatever WRC/European/National Championship class in which they are going to be competing.

They do NOT ever start out with an actual ST.

But Team O'Neil did campaign, and WIN Rally America Championships in a fully prepped FiST in the Open 2WD class (some engine tuning allowed, full Reiger suspension, Sadev sequential gearbox, M-Sport RS2000 rear wing, etc.) with Andrew Comrie-Picard driving.

This is the car pictured with that wild livery scheme on Mountune's site in the Fiesta ST header section, and also on that popular winter video floating around on you tube comparing this car to a base FiST on winter tires.

Ken did have a/some rallycross car(s) which sported FiST badges, but these were NOT built from STs, as wheel to wheel rallycross cars are even MORE radically different from street cars than even the top level, WRC Rally 1 cars (inline, 'north-south' engine layout, different AWD sequential drivetrains, and 650+ HP output, huge snail, 2 liter powerplants, as well as no lights, horn, or turn signals, since they are never driven on the street like WRC cars are.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Yes, the WRC level/class rally Fiestas all start as base Euro/rest of world 2 door (and rarely 4 door for some of the R2 builds) Fiestas, this includes Ken's wife's R2 which she still campaigns in ARA events occasionally.

The FIA may even allow them to start with a base 'body in white' SHELL of the unibody to save them all of the work of stripping it down, but probably not since they must have a factory serial number. since they are street licensed and insured in the country of origin/build to be able to drive on public roads during the 'transits' between the at full speed, competitive stages.

They then add in all of the FIA approved/homologated 'kits'/parts/engine/drivetrain/bodywork to build them to whatever WRC/European/National Championship class there are going to be competing in.

They do NOT ever start out with an actual ST.

But Team O'Neil did campaign, and WIN Rally America Championships in a fully prepped FiST in the Open 2WD class (some engine tuning allowed, full Reiger suspension, Sadev sequential gearbox, M-Sport RS2000 rear wing, etc.) with Andrew Comrie-Picard driving.

This is the car pictured with that wild livery scheme on Mountune's site in the Fiesta ST header section, and also on that popular winter video floating around on you tube comparing this car to a base FiST on winter tires.

Ken did have a/some rallycross car(s) which sported FiST badges, but these were NOT built from STs, as wheel to wheel rallycross cars are even MORE radically different from street cars than even the top level, WRC Rally 1 cars (inline, 'north-south' engine layout, different AWD sequential drivetrains, and 650+ HP output, huge snail, 2 liter powerplants, as well as no lights, horn, or turn signals, since they are never driven on the street like WRC cars are.

Interesting, you seem to be a bottomless pit of knowledge about this stuff lol
I guess the reason cars that didn't start out as STs get the badge is because the manufacturers want to promote their street cars.
The team O'Neil ST build sounds pretty cool. Now I'm gonna have to find that video!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, sometimes I am surprised that M-Sport themselves did not put ST badges on the R5 and WRC Rally 1 cars, but on a worldwide scale, since Ford would be selling many many more plain old base Fiestas as a 'world car' there vs. any amount here, they want to promote the base car for sheer volume of sales promotion.

Ironically, they DO put the R5 and R2 badges in the same exact place/flat spot on the grille as our ST badge, and if you just glance very quickly at it, your brain almost makes you think it IS an ST badge.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM1nkR8pkX4

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Yes, sometimes I am surprised that M-Sport themselves did not put ST badges on the R5 and WRC Rally 1 cars, but on a worldwide scale, since Ford would be selling many many more plain old base Fiestas as a 'world car' there vs. any amount here, they want to promote the base car for sheer volume of sales promotion.

Ironically, they DO put the R5 and R2 badges in the same exact place/flat spot on the grille as our ST badge, and if you just glance very quickly at it, your brain almost makes you think it IS an ST badge.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM1nkR8pkX4

Thanks for saving me the trouble of finding that video. I'm drooling looking at that team O'Neil ST! Its interesting that they run a stock engine, makes me feel more confident about the 1.6s reliability.
I wish I could see what skid plate and underside protection they used. Of course, I'm sure it's all custom and probably not available for sale anyway.
Driving in snow on those little roads looks like a blast!

 

[Crew Jones]

I know they use a lot of HDPE to protect the bottom of rally cars and some short corse trucks. You could use some nutserts and mount sheets on both sides of your exhaust and attach them behind the rear beam by something that could stretch a bit so it stays tucked up tight.
I have been wanting to do this but run that sheet up in to a diffuser of sorts.
This is the material I am talking about (first not paid sight that popped up with it) https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=41934

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, it is the Team O'Neil made/fabricated skid plate, with welded to the unibody threaded for bolts mounts, and ran about $850 back when it was still available.

Even so I was actually considering it as an option, along with their kevlar underbody protection, but then I would have has to drive up to Dalton, N.H., stay over for a few days, and also pay for the welding labor.

It was a very strong and protective bash guard, but is a bit overkill for my uses/needs.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I know they use a lot of HDPE to protect the bottom of rally cars and some short corse trucks. You could use some nutserts and mount sheets on both sides of your exhaust and attach them behind the rear beam by something that could stretch a bit so it stays tucked up tight.
I have been wanting to do this but run that sheet up in to a diffuser of sorts.
This is the material I am talking about (first not paid sight that popped up with it) https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=41934

Yes, this is what a lot of the crews/teams use when they cannot get kevlar sheeting (or if it's just not in their budget).

But at competitive rally speeds and gravel/rock spitting forces, they have to replace this stuff often, as it is not nearly as tough as kevlar.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

I know they use a lot of HDPE to protect the bottom of rally cars and some short corse trucks. You could use some nutserts and mount sheets on both sides of your exhaust and attach them behind the rear beam by something that could stretch a bit so it stays tucked up tight.
I have been wanting to do this but run that sheet up in to a diffuser of sorts.
This is the material I am talking about (first not paid sight that popped up with it) https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=41934

Interesting, thanks for the info. I've been wanting to custom fab something to replace the OEM rock shields on the bottom of the car. That HDPE is the best thing I've come up with to make them.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Yes, it is the Team O'Neil made/fabricated skid plate, with welded to the unibody threaded for bolts mounts, and ran about $850 back when it was still available.

Even so I was actually considering it as an option, along with their kevlar underbody protection, but then I would have has to drive up to Dalton, N.H., stay over for a few days, and also pay for the welding labor.

It was a very strong and protective bash guard, but is a bit overkill for my uses/needs.

Yeah, that's getting a little pricey. Also very much overkill for anything I'll ever do.

 

[Reaper]

For those FiST owners who spend a significant amount of time on surfaces other than pavement, what mods have you done (and what do you plan to do) related to off road driving? Also, what do you find commonly needs attention or breaks? I'm curious because I've always thought the fiestas are great little cars for whipping around on gravel and I was wondering how well they hold up to it.

SCCA RallyX Prepared Front class:

Skid Plate Guy front plate and somebody's rear plate. Cusco gravel spec suspension. Federal gravel rally tires and a set of European rally/mud recaps on Team Dynamics Pro Rally wheels. All I've broken in five years of racing is a passenger side motor mount. Plus the rubberized cardboard underchassis panels disintegrated. My local Ford dealer saw that and had a fit. But I'm long out of warranty now so his opinion no longer matters

A friend in the same class has lost an axle IIRC.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

SCCA RallyX Prepared Front class:

Skid Plate Guy front plate and somebody's rear plate. Cusco gravel spec suspension. Federal gravel rally tires and a set of European rally/mud recaps on Team Dynamics Pro Rally wheels. All I've broken in five years of racing is a passenger side motor mount. Plus the rubberized cardboard underchassis panels disintegrated. My local Ford dealer saw that and had a fit. But I'm long out of warranty now so his opinion no longer matters

A friend in the same class has lost an axle IIRC.

Those underchassis panels are clearly not good enough for rally style driving. I'm planning on trying to make better ones out of HDPE as suggested above. One motor mount breaking is pretty good, especially since your actually racing. Did you upgrade the motor mounts, and if so, what brand did you go with?

 

[M-Sport fan]

SCCA RallyX Prepared Front class:

Skid Plate Guy front plate and somebody's rear plate. Cusco gravel spec suspension. Federal gravel rally tires and a set of European rally/mud recaps on Team Dynamics Pro Rally wheels. All I've broken in five years of racing is a passenger side motor mount. Plus the rubberized cardboard underchassis panels disintegrated. My local Ford dealer saw that and had a fit. But I'm long out of warranty now so his opinion no longer matters

A friend in the same class has lost an axle IIRC.

Is that Cusco suspension an off the shelf, made for the Fiesta setup, or is it an adapted, and fabricated mounts/etc. universal deal??
Links?

Yeah, if I were doing season after season of SCCA Rallycross, I probably would invest in some kevlar underbody protection, as well as remove the side skirts, and run some kevlar layup sheets in their place.

Are you running any aftermarket diff?

 

[Codriver]

For gravel driving some ideas.

First of all tyres make a big difference. Gravel rally tyres (Michelin, Pirelli) offer huge amount of traction. They wear quite fast and don’t offer similar amount of traction on tarmac as normal tyres.

Reiger suspension is great, but for a normal car absurdly expensive. I don’t usually promote bilsteins for rally use, but I know a guy who ran an R1 fiesta in Finnish rallies and in his car the bilsteins were suprisingly good. Of course there needs to be someone who can build them and set them up first. But they can made to work.

For underside protection I would skip kevlar if not on serious use. And when used in anger they wear out quite fast and and are expensive to replace. For the front one could buy aluminium or heavier metal sumpguard protection and rearwards some plastic protection agaist stones thrown by the front tyres.

Led light bars are cheap from China and can easily be mounted for example behind the grill so that they don’t spoil the design. Those aren’t exactly pretty on the bumpers. I would assume they wouldn’t block the airflow dramatically to cause the car to overheat.

When the first R2 fiestas came to rallying the main reason for their speed was that the car was light, balanced and easy to drive with sequential gearbox. With 160hp it for sure wasn’t about power advantage. It replaced for example type r civics which had way more power, but were much more of a nuisance to drive fast on gravel stages.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, the R1 Bilstein/M-Sport setup was standard for the R1s, and even offered as a lower cost option for the original naturally aspirated (like the 160 HP ones you mention above) R2 crews who eight did not want to spend the extra $8K+ USD on the Reigers, or who thought that they did not need those for local/Euro national only events.

Even so, those Bilsteins were setup for/valved for rough gravel (although they did also offer a tarmac setup in them as well) stages, and by the time they made their way over here from Poland, they still ran close to $3K USD.

The current R2T 1.0 Ecoboost Fiestas are quite a bit quicker than the original naturally aspirated, 'cammed' 160 HP 1.6 versions, with upwards of 200 HP allowed by the FIA.