Stupid

[Jabbit]

Like everything else, how many people have solar panels, HOA will not approve it where I live, and I have not seen anyone with solar anywhere near me, never seen a wind turbine in my area either. a few back up generators here and there.

Our country is incredibly diverse, that's what makes it great - where I'm from solar panels are very common. Also some wind turbines but not many. Electric cars are the future despite what anyone thinks. They can be made engaging to drive and we haven't even begun to see their potential. The EVs made today will pale in comparison to what shows up in a other 10-12 years, but the same can be said for most technologies.

 

[Dpro]

There are some Electric cars on the Horizon that are aiming to be more fun to drive and not soulless. I can say that in town like here in LA EV’s make a lot of sense. There is also a EV car company that just went public on the Nasdaq and is planning on having Solar powered EV’s on the market by end of 2022. Shits changing fast. EV’s are not going away . Myself I am more a fan of Hybrids. I like What McLaren went and did. I want to see more of that not just hybrid because clean and fuel efficient but also more power.
Hybrids are the future of SuperCars as well.

 

[The_Ryan]

The thing is an EV would be great for around town commute, I'm not sold on the cross country drive. I've seen to many stories of people trying to do cross country in a Tesla having to drive way off course to find a charging station increasing travel time by a day in one case. Also our electric grid is not going to handle millions of EV's, not unless the government spends billions in upgrades. The last thought is if the shit hits the fan, like a lot of people think is going to happen, the grid will probably go down, I can scrounge fuel, you can't scrounge electrons.

Maybe I'm just a townie city slicker, but how often are yall going on cross country drives? I hear this a lot, but like for me, even if I went two or 3 times a year, it'd make more sense (and probably be cheaper long run) to rent a gas car for those trips when needed.

Also, if you believe that ish will hit the fan: I feel like you can most certainly scrounge electrons with solar panels and generators much better than relying on gas stations being in order for fuel. I mean unless you got a waist deep bug out plan complete with traveling deep into the woods (which you'd probably need a proper SUV which uses even more fuel), it still makes more sense to me have a long range EV.

 

[SteveS]

Maybe I'm just a townie city slicker, but how often are yall going on cross country drives? I hear this a lot, but like for me, even if I went two or 3 times a year, it'd make more sense (and probably be cheaper long run) to rent a gas car for those trips when needed.

Also, if you believe that ish will hit the fan: I feel like you can most certainly scrounge electrons with solar panels and generators much better than relying on gas stations being in order for fuel. I mean unless you got a waist deep bug out plan complete with traveling deep into the woods (which you'd probably need a proper SUV which uses even more fuel), it still makes more sense to me have a long range EV.

When you live in the middle of the US, it is very common to drive distances beyond the range of a single charge on an EV. I'm doing that tomorrow in fact to visit my elderly mother. That's a trip I do every 3-4 weeks. During the season (which is 8-9 months long), we're gone every couple of weekends towing a trailer to motocross races. Again, distances farther than a single charge could take us (especially towing the trailer). It's common for us to drive long distances to do things because that's how far it is. Last time I went to Boston the only time we drove the rental car any distance was when we went to was the fisherman's statue in Gloucester, and that's only what, 40 miles? Here, 40 miles won't really get me anywhere.

 

[gtx3076]

I'm looking forward to EV work vans. I don't need it to be fast or fun, just reliable, and if the cost of ownership is overall lower, it would be worth it.

 

[The_Ryan]

When you live in the middle of the US, it is very common to drive distances beyond the range of a single charge on an EV. I'm doing that tomorrow in fact to visit my elderly mother. That's a trip I do every 3-4 weeks. During the season (which is 8-9 months long), we're gone every couple of weekends towing a trailer to motocross races. Again, distances farther than a single charge could take us (especially towing the trailer). It's common for us to drive long distances to do things because that's how far it is. Last time I went to Boston the only time we drove the rental car any distance was when we went to was the fisherman's statue in Gloucester, and that's only what, 40 miles? Here, 40 miles won't really get me anywhere.

lol so I'm totally a townie city slicker then because I like to fish and I never go to Gloucester despite it being a great spot because that's just too far. Thanks for the perspective!

 

[Ford ST]

I'm a boring homebody. Work, Gym, grocery store and home. I live in the country not just a city thing. If it's too far away I have zero interest. My job is a 16 mile drive. I refuse to do long commutes I'm not even going to look at a job if its more than 30 minutes away. Yep I am boring, but life is good at home.
Anyway my point is a electric vehicle would work for me just fine 99% of the time. If I could get close to 300 miles of range I would only need to recharge once a week.

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[SteveS]

lol so I'm totally a townie city slicker then because I like to fish and I never go to Gloucester despite it being a great spot because that's just too far. Thanks for the perspective!

That's why so many people aren't going to go to EV yet. it just doesn't fit their use case. For people in a metro area, it makes a lot more sense. That's why I like the idea behind Formula 1's upcoming fuel initiative. The pure EV doesn't fit every use case. And that's why an electric vehicle-only (as a one size fits all policy) makes life a lot more difficult for those of us out in the parts in the country that don't get to make all the policies.

 

[Dpro]

That's why so many people aren't going to go to EV yet. it just doesn't fit their use case. For people in a metro area, it makes a lot more sense. That's why I like the idea behind Formula 1's upcoming fuel initiative. The pure EV doesn't fit every use case. And that's why an electric vehicle-only (as a one size fits all policy) makes life a lot more difficult for those of us out in the parts in the country that don't get to make all the policies.

I agree with this. Pure EV is not the answer at all.

 

[cidsamuth]

EVs don't officially outnumber ICEs until there are charging stations everywhere AND you can charge a car in just a few minutes versus 45+, i.e. like fueling a car.

 

[XR650R]

EVs don't officially outnumber ICEs until there are charging stations everywhere AND you can charge a car in just a few minutes versus 45+, i.e. like fueling a car.

I think that time is fast approaching. I just hope it happens fast enough to make a real difference.
These are perilous times.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Both have their place in the Automotive community. But* I am tired of seeing EV commercials ramming it down our throats. They are becoming just like election cycle commercials...I just turn the channel. Did anyone ever see a Commercial for a FiST or a FoST? I know I never did! But if ferd promoted the FiST better it would've sold like wild fire. But fomoco would rather put advertising towards their bread and butter F150 & the new "Lightning"...Which to me is an abomination

 

[jeffreylyon]

I suspect that I'm one of the few people here that have any real-world experience with an EV. I have a lowly Leaf - 120 miles on a full charge.

Yesterday I had a meeting Pittsburgh - 75 miles round trip for me. No problem; started with a full charge in the morning and round tripped with plenty to spare when I got home at 11:00 AM. Knowing that we were having dinner with friends in the city in the evening, I plugged in and was at 100% charge at 5:00 when we left for our friends' house - 85 miles round trip. Got home with 15% charge left and plugged in. I'm not doing anything in the city today so my wife took the Leaf instead of her truck to head into the city for an appointment. Collectively, we do ~75% of our mileage on the Leaf and we both work 35 miles from our home.

Short of a road trip, I think that amount of daily mileage is at least equal to the majority of drivers. I had to charge in between trips but that's always in the back of a EV-driver's mind - "Where am I going to charge next." That'll change as there are more and more place to charge but, for now, it's something to be mindful of. That said, planning a road trip with my Leaf would be like planning D-Day. No thanks, we'll take the truck. And, further, we have a driveway and a charging station at home, so it's easy for us to charge cheaply.

If we only had EVs (coming in February save the FiST which is not a road trip car) and if we had to do a road trip if and I had a EV with decent range (like the Mach-E coming in Feb), I'd need to take a whole 5 minutes before leaving to plan stops ahead of time to ensure no delays that were out of cycle with pee (my wife is lost without her jug of ice water) and meal stops. Pee stops might be a little longer than before but, otherwise, it would be the same trip for us.

Our EV works for us - so well that we're replacing our daily ICE with another and will be getting a F-150 EV when they are available with no hesitations. I equate the angst that modern-ICE drivers perceive of trying to find someplace to charge with that of folks worried about trying to find someplace to buy gas rather than just unhitching their horses and letting them graze and with that of future EV drivers worrying about where to find hydrogen for fuel-cell cars.

 

[jeff]

I suspect that I'm one of the few people here that have any real-world experience with an EV. I have a lowly Leaf - 120 miles on a full charge.

Your logic/experience is exactly why I'll own an EV one day. Gonna keep all my other cars too. But the EV just makes sense.

I took a 9 hour drive with my friend to pick up a new project recently in his Tesla 3. Was amazed. Yeah it's boring but it's fast as crap and the car drove itself through rush hour traffic in Atlanta at 8:30am in the rain. Until you're sitting in the car while it does that you don't realize how much more peaceful of an experience it is. A 30 minute gridlock felt like 5 minutes. The car figured out where to go, charge, etc. on its own and it took no more time to get there (with 2 charges) than it would have in an ICE car. Stops were short and efficent, by the time I emptied my bladder and got a sandwich the car was charged and ready.

One day we _might_ replace our CX9 with a MachE or ModelY. But for sure when my little girl turns 16ish and is ready to learn to drive, which is 4 years away, I'm getting a used Bolt or Leaf. Leaf is quite amazing - a used one can be had for ~$5k and do everything you need for an around-town car. Not the most exciting but it does the job like you said. I get it.

No fear of getting bored, there is always the Fiesta or my other cars to keep the blood pumping.

Great discussion.

PS side note on EV hate...it's a real thing. Nice to see people discussing it logically here. I don't get it. I think it comes down to pride - we see pride in someone else who we think "thinks they're better" because they have an EV and are green and all that. Truth is we're no worse if we have pride/hate/judge back.

 

[gtx3076]

I remember when people poo'd on the F150 3.5EB, cause a truck "has to have a V8". Just about every F150 I pass these days has a whistling turbo on it.

 

[Blah]

I really wish someone could explain the EV-hate to me.

Glad you asked. People who are able to use EVs own homes with garages or have off street parking. Providing tax dollars so they can buy an expensive vehicle -- minimum of $30,000 -- is an additional tax on the poor who can’t afford their own home. Furthermore, EVs are useless to college students in dorms -- "Hi mom, can't come home cuz there's no place to charge my car on campus" or "All the stations are busy". In fact, they're useless to most folks who want to go on any type of long trip unless they own a $169,000 Lucid Air with 500+ miles of range. Now I ask you, do people who can purchase expensive EVs like this really need me to support them with $7500 to $12,500 of my tax dollars? I'd much rather keep my money.

Yet, we are ALL FORCED to pay for other people's EVs. Does that explain the hate?

Edit: Should mention the EVs we are forced to pay for are also usually more comfortable, nicer, and perform better than the vehicles the tax payers themselves drive.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Glad you asked. People who are able to use EVs own homes with garages or have off street parking. Providing tax dollars so they can buy an expensive vehicle -- minimum of $30,000 -- is an additional tax on the poor who can’t afford their own home. Furthermore, EVs are useless to college students in dorms -- "Hi mom, can't come home cuz there's no place to charge my car on campus" or "All the stations are busy". In fact, they're useless to most folks who want to go on any type of long trip unless they own a $169,000 Lucid Air with 500+ miles of range. Now I ask you, do people who can purchase expensive EVs like this really need me to support them with $7500 to $12,500 of my tax dollars? I'd much rather keep my money.

Yet, we are ALL FORCED to pay for other people's EVs. Does that explain the hate?

So…, how do you feel about the $ billions in tax incentives given to the oil and gas industry?

 

[Blah]

So…, how do you feel about the $ billions in tax incentives given to the oil and gas industry?

I am pleased you respect my answer on the EV Hate question enough to seek out additional wisdom on "tax incentives given to the oil and gas industry". However, I'd like to point out that's very off topic and should instead be addressed in a separate Active Topic/Forum.

 

[D1JL]

This is an interesting discussion.
Please do not make it political.

 

[Ford ST]

The electric vehicle discussion has been coming up at work fairly often. Someone today mentioned they knew someone that had a electric vehicle, and it only had 30 miles of range. What they didn't realize was that vehicle was a plug in hybrid. I was getting paint samples Monday with my Wife, and I noticed kind of hidden in the parking lot a handful of Tesla charging stations.

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