Fiesta ST NASA TT5, Build-ish, Results, Track Videos

[slyez]

We are building our Fiesta into a streetable time trial car for NASA TT5 competition. We had started with an HS autocross car, then built it for use in the One Lap Of America, now, with the help of MeisterR.com, Team559.com, FSWerks.com, EBC USA Brakes, Stratified, we are getting pretty close to a real competitive car. I am not too media savvy, but will try to keep this thread updated with results, car setup and testing and any other info that seems useful.

The car:
MeisterR GT1 coilovers - Started with 8/6 kg/mm F/R, went to 8/8, and now at 9/10, Jerrick has been a huge help with setup, tuning and advice on the suspension
Team Dynamics Race 1.2 15x8 (sometimes Enkei RPF1 16x7, or SVT Focus 17x7, and considering a re-drill to 4x100 up front to use Konig Dial-in 15x9)
Several different tire sizes and brands tested, latest is 245/40/15 F, 225/45/15 R Toyo RR
FSWerks de-mufflered exhaust
Whoosh Catless DP
Mishimoto Radiator-we still run the track sessions with the heat on high...
Ford 190F Thermostat
Mishimoto Intercooler, custom water cooling sprayers in grill
Mishimoto Catch Can
Currently self tuned stock turbo but have started working with Stratified for the future tunes
11/18/21: Stratified Tune #1 received 11-17, so will use for next event, still stock turbo S280 turbo
Turbosmart Wastegate Actuator 7lb and EM Diverter Valve
Cobb RMM
FSWerks Short Shift Bracket
Quaife diff, plan to go to a wavetrac Gripper soon
12/15/21: Installed Gripper plate diff and fidanza flywheel
K&N Filter in stock intake, cowl intake on order
12/10/21: 2J Cowl Intake installed
Poly torsion beam bushings
poly control arm bushings and +1 caster superpro
Stock Fiesta SE front Sway
Godspeed adjustable endlinks
Custom rear torsion beam brace
Peirce 4 point lower and upper strut braces
Nine Lives Racing rear wing
Versus engineering hood louvers
Stock Brakes with Carbotech/Gloc 12F, 10R pads, working on a custom wilwood front kit with Fastbrakes.com
11/9/21: Installed FastBrakes.com kit. Wilwood 12.2" rotors, Dynalite 4 piston calipers, Gloc R12 pads, fits under TD Race 1.2 15x8 with 10-15mm spacers
5/12/22: EBC 300mm Brake Kit with Anodized instead of powder coated calipers
Whoosh Braided SS Brake Lines
F- 3.5 degrees camber, +1 degree caster, .15 degree toe out, ~315-320mm ride height (Me=iesterR Top Mounts maxed camber and spindle mount bolts maxed for camber to get the 3.5. Had to modify the strut tower to allow for the damping adjustments)
R- Stock camber, .1 degree toe out with custom shims, ~310 mm ride height
Car weighs ~2780lb with me in it and full tank of fuel, corner balanced to 50-50 cross weights, roughly 175whp (probably slightly more when cool out?)

 

[slyez]

Double Nickel Nine Motorsports 2019 Fiesta ST stage 2+, MeisterR GT1 8kgF/6kgR, Yokohama A052
During One Lap of America 2021
Gingerman 1:50.61
Summit point 1:27.68
Atlanta Motorsports Park 1:36.96
Eagles Canyon Raceway 2:21.04
NOLA Raceway 2:10.35
We had never been to any of the tracks, and we're only given 3 laps plus a warmup.

https://nasaspeed.news/columns/must-read/the-tire-rack-one-lap-of-america-a-drivers-diary/

Falken RT615+, Stage 2+, MeisterR 8kgF/8kgR
Wild Horse Pass East 1:07.80
WHP East w/Gripper Diff:
1:04.2 - Toyo RR, 9kgF/10kgR - 1/16/22
1:05.5 - Toyo RR, 9kgF/10kgR - 1/16/22
1:06.4 - S280, ~220hp Toyo R1R 205 square with 200lb passenger and bedding in brakes - 2/12/22
1:02.7 - S280, ~220hp Toyo RR 245F/225R - 2/12/22 TT5 Track Record!

Falken, Stock suspension, Stage 1
Wild Horse Pass West 1:11.48

Falken RT615+, Stage 2+, MeisterR 8kgF/8kgR
Bondurant with looper 1:15.32 with passenger 7/31/21

Toyo RR 245/40/15F 205/50/15R, 9kgF/10kgR 11/14/21
Bondurant (now called Radford) with Looper 1:11.22
Bondurant with Looper and Slow turn 1B 4/2/22 1:14.73

Toyo R888R-15x8 td rims
9/21-Streets of willow CCW 1:26.9
7/24/22-Streets of Willow CCW 1:25.5 Toyo RR, EBC SR11 pads
7/24/22-Streets of Willow CCW 1:25.9 Toyo RR, EBC SR11 pads

Inde motorsports ranch layout 6 CW 1:51.3
other run

Yokohama A052 225/45/16 enkei rpf1 16x7
Arizona Motorsports Park Full CW 1:55.3

MeisterR 9kg/mm F, 10kg/mm R, Toyo RR 245/40/15F 225/45/15R
Arizona Motorsports Park Full CW 1:53.5

Gripper Diff, 9/10, Toyo RR - 2/20/22
Chuckwalla Raceway CW 2:00.94

225F/205R Toyo RR, 9kgF/11kgR
6/22-WeatherTech Raceway Laguna Seca Raceway 1:44.07, lots of traffic
245F/205R Toyo RR, 10kfF/11kgR
9/17-22-NASA Championships Weather Tech Laguna Seca 1:41.13

 

[slyez]

10/23 and 10/24 we were at Arizona Motorsports Park for the first NASA TT5 event for the car. We knew we had a pretty good setup, as we had gone to the track for testing the week before. The testing day was our first time there ever, so we spent most of that day getting familiar with the track and then making note of what the car needed to be faster around the circuit. We finished the day with a 1:55.3 on yokohama A052 225/45/16 tires with 8kg/mm F and 8kg/mm R springs on our MeisterR GT1 coilovers. This was with no aero either.

During the week between the test and the time trial, we decided to go for some stiffer springs because we would be using slightly grippier tires (in the Toyo RR) and we would like more rotation out of the car. With some help from Jerrick at MeisterR we got the suspension all dialed and aligned with 9kg/mm F and 10kg/mm R. We also mounted the NineLives racing rear wing, and went from ~.1 degree toe in, in the rear, to .1 degree toe out. The car was a bit slow in the slower speed corners, but pretty good in the high speed ones, so we added the wing with thte expectation that by adding some rear spring and rear toe out, that we may make the car try to kill us in the faster stuff.

The weekend of the Time trial came and we were feeling pretty confident. We laid down a 1:53.9 in session 1 of saturday, and that was as fast as we went all day. The car has always seemed to get slower with the daily temperature increase, due to reduced power and overworking the front tires. It was good enough for 2nd place out of 8 cars in TT5. It also confirmed that our changes from the testing day made a positive impact.

Day 2 we were able to go even faster, setting a 1:53.4 on our first session, and then backing it up with a 53.5 and 53.6 in sessions 3 and 4. Again good enough for 2nd of 7. For upcoming event we still feel that we can use more rotation out of the car. We will likely go with even more toe out in the rear, and probably smaller tires there also, maybe 245/40 in front and 205/50 in back.... Also find that the inside tire is spinning a lot on corner exit, so we are looking into swapping the quaife for a wavetrac. Also have been talking with Stratified for some tuning help to get some more power out of the car, as well as looking for some more guidance from Jerrick at MeisterR to dial in better front grip overall.

Will update with changes and results as we move forward.

 

[Magnetic]

10/23 and 10/24 we were at Arizona Motorsports Park for the first NASA TT5 event for the car. We knew we had a pretty good setup, as we had gone to the track for testing the week before. The testing day was our first time there ever, so we spent most of that day getting familiar with the track and then making note of what the car needed to be faster around the circuit. We finished the day with a 1:55.3 on yokohama A052 225/45/16 tires with 8kg/mm F and 8kg/mm R springs on our MeisterR GT1 coilovers. This was with no aero either.

During the week between the test and the time trial, we decided to go for some stiffer springs because we would be using slightly grippier tires (in the Toyo RR) and we would like more rotation out of the car. With some help from Jerrick at MeisterR we got the suspension all dialed and aligned with 9kg/mm F and 10kg/mm R. We also mounted the NineLives racing rear wing, and went from ~.1 degree toe in, in the rear, to .1 degree toe out. The car was a bit slow in the slower speed corners, but pretty good in the high speed ones, so we added the wing with thte expectation that by adding some rear spring and rear toe out, that we may make the car try to kill us in the faster stuff.

The weekend of the Time trial came and we were feeling pretty confident. We laid down a 1:53.9 in session 1 of saturday, and that was as fast as we went all day. The car has always seemed to get slower with the daily temperature increase, due to reduced power and overworking the front tires. It was good enough for 2nd place out of 7 cars in TT5. It also confirmed that our changes from the testing day made a positive impact.

Day 2 we were able to go even faster, setting a 1:53.4 on our first session, and then backing it up with a 53.5 and 53.6 in sessions 3 and 4. Again good enough for 2nd. For upcoming event we still feel that we can use more rotation out of the car. We will likely go with even more toe out in the rear, and probably smaller tires there also, maybe 245/40 in front and 205/50 in back.... Also find that the inside tire is spinning a lot on corner exit, so we are looking into swapping the quaife for a wavetrac. Also have been talking with Stratified for some tuning help to get some more power out of the car, as well as looking for some more guidance from Jerrick at MeisterR to dial in better front grip overall.

Will update with changes and results as we move forward.

Hey! I'm in AZ in Tempe and have been wondering how to get on some of the local tracks.

Could you give me some direction on what I need to do?

Thanks in advance!

 

[slyez]

go on motorsportsreg.com
I would suggest proautosports as a good club to start with. They are reasonable cost-wise, and mostly there for fun. They have events coming up in Nov and Dec.

 

[Magnetic]

go on motorsportsreg.com
I would suggest proautosports as a good club to start with. They are reasonable cost-wise, and mostly there for fun. They ave events coming up in Nov and Dec.

Awesome, thanks for the intel!

 

[Jabbit]

Hey! I'm in AZ in Tempe and have been wondering how to get on some of the local tracks.

Could you give me some direction on what I need to do?

Thanks in advance!

Also Google "track night in America" as that's a super friendly way to get on a real track rather than dodge cones in a parking lot.

 

[Magnetic]

Also Google "track night in America" as that's a super friendly way to get on a real track rather than dodge cones in a parking lot.

Thanks!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Also Google "track night in America" as that's a super friendly way to get on a real track rather than dodge cones in a parking lot.

That option is also not much more costly outright than the cone-dodging events in some regions, regardless of whether or not one is an SCCA member.
(It is actually less than most autocross entries when one does a coin to seat time ratio comparison!)

 

[Jabbit]

That option is also not much more costly outright than the cone-dodging events in some regions, regardless of whether or not one is an SCCA member.
(It is actually less than most autocross entries when one does a coin to seat time ratio comparison!)

For sure! It's usually +/-$150 and you usually get 60 minutes of full speed track time minimum. Highly recommended. I know a lot of "car guys" and I try to convince them to join me at a Track night. I usually lure them with "if you run a lap time faster than me, I'll pay you fees" and I haven't had to pay for one yet but they all have loved the experience.

 

[slyez]

After doing a lot of research, I think our choice will likely be a Kaaz diff (with super Q?) to replace our Quaife, instead of the wavetrac. We are looking for a bigger difference than quaife to wavetrac, as far as I can tell.
If anyone has an opinion or experience with any or all of the available differentials, please let us know. The quaife is WAY better than the stock open diff, but more locking would yield faster lap times....

Unless someone knows where to get a cusco RS in the states...

 

[slyez]

Here is some feedback for anyone looking at control arm rear bushings....

I think we have tried all of them that are available.

The stock ones allow for too much toe change under braking and acceleration. Also low Caster

The powerflex is a great idea, and we were originally happy with them.... We started noticing some creaking noise and assumed it was sway bar bushings. Couldnt get it to go away.... Eventually we pulled the control arms to change ball joints and saw that the powerflex bush had rotated the inner ball around the steel shaft, ending up in the low caster position. Looking closer at the design, I dont see any other possible outcome since the forces are highest towards the center of the car, and there doesnt seem to be any good way of preventing the ball from rotating around the steel shaft. Not instantly, but over many deformation events, I beleive this bushing will end up in the low caster position for everyone who drives the car on track or just hard.

Next was Whiteline. These are similar to the stock bushings in geometery and we thought they were an easy winner. They have caster adjustability before installation, so we set them in the high caster position and pressed them in. Seemed great, steel sleave is captured by the subframe and the bushing is all molded together so it couldn't rotate independent of the steel center, also the urethane was bonded to the steel offset center tube. Well when we did pull the control arms next time for replacing the front lower control arm bushings, we saw that the whiteline urethane had come apart from the steel inner. That was a clunk that we were hearing since if the urethane detatches from the cneter the control arm can then move up and down around that shaft at the rear bushing. I called Whiteline and the tech said its normal (although I am still not convinced that he understood my explanation of the issue...) SO we started looking for other options.

Finally we found the superpro bushings. They seemed to only have stock caster options on the website, but an email to them gave us a part number for a caster change set. They said it was +1 degree, which is more than the +.5 degrees of powerflex and whiteline, so great. These bushings allow for the center steel shaft to float within the urethane, and the up and down movement is constrained by a urethan spacer. Some strange rubbing motion type design, but it seems like it should solve the problems we had fund with all of the other types. These are working well, and unless we find an issue, I will not update further, since the design seems sound, and no issue after 3 track days so far.

So for my part, I recommend the superpro spf3641k
There is also a version that keeps stock caster, but with all other design features of the 3641k

 

[M-Sport fan]

After doing a lot of research, I think our choice will likely be a Kaaz diff (with super Q?) to replace our Quaife, instead of the wavetrac. We are looking for a bigger difference than quaife to wavetrac, as far as I can tell.
If anyone has an opinion or experience with any or all of the available differentials, please let us know. The quaife is WAY better than the stock open diff, but more locking would yield faster lap times....

Unless someone knows where to get a cusco RS in the states...

Has anyone ever looked into the Drexler diffs, out of Oz ('stralia), or even whether or not they actually offer one for our IB6es?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hey! I'm in AZ in Tempe and have been wondering how to get on some of the local tracks.

Could you give me some direction on what I need to do?

Thanks in advance!

I'm another Magnetic (+ molten) almost stock FiST in Tempe! Get onto https://www.motorsportreg.com and look for events at AMP (Arizona Motorsports Park), Wildhorse Pass, etc. I've been a BMW CCA member for 20+ years enjoying HPDE events at Firebird (now Wildhorse pass), PIR (before they removed the road course, sigh) and now AMP where we have joint events with PCA. You don't have to be a PCA or BMW CCA member to come out and play. Really fun, safe events and good instruction/coaching for beginners and experienced folk.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Here is some feedback for anyone looking at control arm rear bushings....

I think we have tried all of them that are available.

The stock ones allow for too much toe change under braking and acceleration. Also low Caster

The powerflex is a great idea, and we were originally happy with them.... We started noticing some creaking noise and assumed it was sway bar bushings. Couldnt get it to go away.... Eventually we pulled the control arms to change ball joints and saw that the powerflex bush had rotated the inner ball around the steel shaft, ending up in the low caster position. Looking closer at the design, I dont see any other possible outcome since the forces are highest towards the center of the car, and there doesnt seem to be any good way of preventing the ball from rotating around the steel shaft. Not instantly, but over many deformation events, I beleive this bushing will end up in the low caster position for everyone who drives the car on track or just hard.

Next was Whiteline. These are similar to the stock bushings in geometery and we thought they were an easy winner. They have caster adjustability before installation, so we set them in the high caster position and pressed them in. Seemed great, steel sleave is captured by the subframe and the bushing is all molded together so it couldn't rotate independent of the steel center, also the urethane was bonded to the steel offset center tube. Well when we did pull the control arms next time for replacing the front lower control arm bushings, we saw that the whiteline urethane had come apart from the steel inner. That was a clunk that we were hearing since if the urethane detatches from the cneter the control arm can then move up and down around that shaft at the rear bushing. I called Whiteline and the tech said its normal (although I am still not convinced that he understood my explanation of the issue...) SO we started looking for other options.

Finally we found the superpro bushings. They seemed to only have stock caster options on the website, but an email to them gave us a part number for a caster change set. They said it was +1 degree, which is more than the +.5 degrees of powerflex and whiteline, so great. These bushings allow for the center steel shaft to float within the urethane, and the up and down movement is constrained by a urethan spacer. Some strange rubbing motion type design, but it seems like it should solve the problems we had fund with all of the other types. These are working well, and unless we find an issue, I will not update further, since the design seems sound, and no issue after 3 track days so far.

So for my part, I recommend the superpro spf3641k
There is also a version that keeps stock caster, but with all other design features of the 3641k

Great info - thx! What are you using for the front bushing?

 

[Dpro]

In for all the info great stuff . Keep it coming and Ya ditto on the front bushing question from above.

 

[slyez]

Front bushing is just standard powerflex from whoosh. It's a typical coaxial bushing, and works fine.

 

[slyez]

Some feedback on other products:

The H&R 10mm wheel spacers we have been using with good success. We did just put on the Wilwood front rotors (the 2 pc aluminum hat 12.2” ones) and the H&R 10mm spacers do not work with those. The hub shoulder protrudes too far out due to the reduced thickness of the wildwood hat vs the stock rotor face, and the inner bore of the spacer is too shallow and the hub shoulder hits the step in the H&R bore. The 5mm spacers work fine, and the 15mm spacers work fine. Just providing a data point. Too bad because the Team dynamics 15x8 wheels like the 10mm spacer with 245/40/15 tires.

Also, the Wilwood 12.2” rotors clear the Team Dynamics 15x8 wheels with the 15mm spacer and the 10mm spacer(other than the 10mm bore issue) but not with a 5mm spacer. This info is not on the 6 piston wildwood kit, but with the use of the forged dynalite 4 piston (used because of the piston area being closer to 3sq.in than the 4sq.in of the 6 piston calipers, plus they are much cheaper). Not a great data point since most people will just buy the 6 piston ones, but thought it may be interesting info either way.

BTW, the 4 piston 3sq.in calipers give great pedal feel.

12/1/21: Tested with Enkei RPF1 16x7, they clear the brakes barely with 15mm spacer. Carbotech pads will not work since the backing plates are longer, but Hawk pads do work. No room between caliper and rim for wheel weights though. Less room that TD 15x8....

 

[slyez]

Just finished the second TT weekend with a win each day in TT5!

We were at Radford (used to be called Bondurant) with NASA AZ. Since the previous weekend we added the Fastbrakes.com Front Brake kit, went to -2mm total toe out in rear, and switched rear from 225/45/15 tire size to 205/50, with 245/40/15 Fronts. Saturday we were able to get to a 1:12.2 with 225/45F tires and 205/50 R, but we went with the 245/40 on Sunday morning and laid down a 1:11.2 in the first session. The fast laps on Saturday were later in the day, so I dont really expect that there is a 1 second difference in the 2 tires, but there is definitely a decent chunk of time going to the 245s. Still running the 15x8 TD Race 1.2 wheels, but plan to switch to a 4x100 15x9 front within the next month or 2. hopefully we can get them to fit under the fenders...

Didnt remember to hit record on the camera for the 1:11.2 lap, but got a session with a 1:11.7

 

[ronmcdon]

great thread. has me rethinking of going the 15x9 route instead of 17x9 and was surprised to see there's a decent selection of 200tw tires in 245/15 (hoping that lasts).

good also to know 8/8 rates work with the Meister gt1s along with alignment specs. often wondered how I could get more rotation with the car.

very useful feedback, many thanks!