Crash bar

[CarGuy]

That could very well be the case, but that will not stop some insurance companies from arguing it was still at fault by not being subjected to, and passing all of the same various NHSTA/DOT crash tests/regs as the factory boat anchor 'beam', and therefore trying to deny payouts on any/all claims where this part is involved.

Thats because the stock beam was crash engineered and the aftermarket was not. There is zero crash testing done on it. I've seen it so many times. Aftermarket part is created with zero testing or proof of it being better. We saw it all the time when we tested "tuner" vehicles for Motor Trend. Bigger brake systems that had longer braking distances than stock. "Upgraded" suspensions that weren't as good as stock as far as numbers through the slalom or figure eight test. We saw it all the time. They never test but make these big claims of improvement to sell product. It's likely the same with these crash bars. They were never crash tested therefore you really could be making your car worse in a crash as far as protection goes. Anyway, I digress.

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[M-Sport fan]

My crash sensors were relocated to the IC. This is the original design by DHM. I’m not sure how they’d mount if you’re not running a DHM IC. View attachment 44300

I thought that the TB crash bar had tabs welded on for the sensors?

 

[Woods247]

Thats because the stock bean was crash engineered and the aftermarket was not. There is zero crash testing done on it. I've seen it so many times. Aftermarket part is created with zero testing or proof of it being better. We saw it all the time when we tested "tuner" vehicles for Motor Trend. Bigger brake systems that has longer braking distances than stock. "Upgraded" suspensions that weren't as good as stock as far as numbers through the slalom or figure eight test. We saw it all the time. They never test but make these big claims of improvement.to sell product. It's likely the same with these crash bars. They were never crash tested therefore you really could be making your car worse in a crash as far as protection goes. Anyway, I digress.

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They were originally designed for airflow and bigger IC fitment for modified large turbo Ford Fiesta STs. It’s not designed for additional protection.

 

[Woods247]

I thought that the TB crash bar had tabs welded on for the sensors?

The thing is pointless without a DHM IC anyways. Every current US spec IC can be run with the OEM crashbar.

 

[Magnetic]

That could very well be the case, but that will not stop some insurance companies from arguing it was still at fault by not being subjected to, and passing all of the same various NHSTA/DOT crash tests/regs as the factory boat anchor 'beam', and therefore trying to deny payouts on any/all claims where this part is involved.

With all the upgrades that would never get paid out it might be worth settling for Liability only at this point.

 

[Jabbit]

TB crash bar has tabs for the air bag sensors. Easy to mount and no issues with them at all. I have one with the idea of it "looks cool" as well as saving significant weight at the tip of the car. I'm aware of the compromises that may occur in a front end collision and I'm ok with it.

 

[MagnetiseST]

TB crash bar has tabs for the air bag sensors. Easy to mount and no issues with them at all. I have one with the idea of it "looks cool" as well as saving significant weight at the tip of the car. I'm aware of the compromises that may occur in a front end collision and I'm ok with it.

It doesn’t save that much weight. And you want weight over the front driven wheels anyway…


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[Jabbit]

It doesn’t save that much weight. And you want weight over the front driven wheels anyway…


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15+ lbs of weight, that's significant.

 

[MagnetiseST]

15+ lbs of weight, that's significant.

Not really, you can lose 15lb. You can toss the back seats out, you can get racing seats, you can get lighter wheels / brake rotors / calipers. Get a lightweight battery, carbon fiber hood. Etc.

 

[D-resonant]

Thats because the stock bean was crash engineered and the aftermarket was not. There is zero crash testing done on it. I've seen it so many times. Aftermarket part is created with zero testing or proof of it being better. We saw it all the time when we tested "tuner" vehicles for Motor Trend. Bigger brake systems that has longer braking distances than stock. "Upgraded" suspensions that weren't as good as stock as far as numbers through the slalom or figure eight test. We saw it all the time. They never test but make these big claims of improvement.to sell product. It's likely the same with these crash bars. They were never crash tested therefore you really could be making your car worse in a crash as far as protection goes. Anyway, I digress.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

The crash crash bar is also a structural stiffing beam for the front. Without it (or replacing it with a less-stiff beam/bar) opens the front up to behave like a u-shaped pitchfork.

The Pro-Alloy Competition Spec IC with the aluminum replacement beam that Ron has on his website is one of few lightweight parts that I'm aware of which appears to address this. It's also $$$$.

I personally would not change the crash bar on a street driven FiST.

 

[Magnetic]

The crash crash bar is also a structural stiffing beam for the front. Without it (or replacing it with a less-stiff beam/bar) opens the front up to behave like a u-shaped pitchfork.

The Pro-Alloy Competition Spec IC with the aluminum replacement beam that Ron has on his website is one of few lightweight parts that I'm aware of which appears to address this. It's also $$$$.

I personally would not change the crash bar on a street driven FiST.

I've been considering getting the Pro-Alloy Comp Spec setup but wasn't sure the Aluminum crash bar would suffice in the event of an impact.

 

[Magnetic]

The thing is pointless without a DHM IC anyways. Every current US spec IC can be run with the OEM crashbar.

The original topic of the crash bar I believe was or more airflow to the radiator since the OEM crash bar blocks a lot of it. We were curious to see how the light bar would affect cooling because it was already limited in airflow. So a lot of folks on here want the light bar behind the grill but are concerned with cooling.

Any thoughts?

 

[D-resonant]

I've been considering getting the Pro-Alloy Comp Spec setup but wasn't sure the Aluminum crash bar would suffice in the event of an impact.

Aluminum part can be designed to be as stiff, just not as strong/tough before failing (breaking).

The original topic of the crash bar I believe was or more airflow to the radiator since the OEM crash bar blocks a lot of it. We were curious to see how the light bar would affect cooling because it was already limited in airflow. So a lot of folks on here want the light bar behind the grill but are concerned with cooling.

Any thoughts?

Yes, opening up the honeycomb grill and crash beam would permit more air flow for cooling, BUT you also need to consider where that airflow mass exits. Without properly sized and placed hood vents, all that air exits under the car (and what others have eluded to) will create additional lift in front.

If absolute cooling at lower speeds is what you want. Than by all means mod it, knowing all the other compromises to the overall package.

 

[Magnetic]

Aluminum part can be designed to be as stiff, just not as strong/tough before failing (breaking).



Yes, opening up the honeycomb grill and crash beam would permit more air flow for cooling, BUT you also need to consider where that airflow mass exits. Without properly sized and placed hood vents, all that air exits under the car (and what others have eluded to) will create additional lift in front.

Both points make sense. So how much aero would be required to compensate for the additional volume of air and pressure?

I've been thinking of getting this hood on Whoosh' site since it has hood vents. Only thing is I don't want to have to use hood pins as recommended. (Nor do I want to cut the OEM hood for vents)

Would this hood or a similar setup suffice to combat the increased volume?

 

[MagnetiseST]

The original topic of the crash bar I believe was or more airflow to the radiator since the OEM crash bar blocks a lot of it. We were curious to see how the light bar would affect cooling because it was already limited in airflow. So a lot of folks on here want the light bar behind the grill but are concerned with cooling.

Any thoughts?

I know we like to think that more airflow = more cool, but that is not always the case. You have to consider fluid dynamics of the airflow and the aerodynamics of the car itself. The stock radiator is not adequate. Replace the radiator, all of the cooling problems this car has are solved. No need for a crash bar, no need for shaving the grille. I don't see the point in trying to shortcut the method here, especially since these crash bars are basically as much as a radiator.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Both points make sense. So how much aero would be required to compensate for the additional volume of air and pressure?

I've been thinking of getting this hood on Whoosh' site since it has hood vents. Only thing is I don't want to have to use hood pins as recommended. (Nor do I want to cut the OEM hood for vents)

Would this hood or a similar setup suffice to combat the increased volume?

View attachment 44306

We run this hood on our race car, it doesn't do anything for the temps. The only way to effectively combat coolant temps is a rad / oil cooler.

Also we don't run hood pins and its been fine.

 

[Magnetic]

I know we like to think that more airflow = more cool, but that is not always the case. You have to consider fluid dynamics of the airflow and the aerodynamics of the car itself. The stock radiator is not adequate. Replace the radiator, all of the cooling problems this car has are solved. No need for a crash bar, no need for shaving the grille. I don't see the point in trying to shortcut the method here, especially since these crash bars are basically as much as a radiator.

With a light bar limiting the flow of air behind the grill, would we see any real increase in engine temps ?

 

[Jabbit]

Not really, you can lose 15lb. You can toss the back seats out, you can get racing seats, you can get lighter wheels / brake rotors / calipers. Get a lightweight battery, carbon fiber hood. Etc.

I did all that stuff too except for CF hood. I rarely street drive my car - most street miles are to/from tracks. It's 17.5lbs roughly and that IS a lot of weight off a 2,700lb car.

 

[Magnetic]

We run this hood on our race car, it doesn't do anything for the temps. The only way to effectively combat coolant temps is a rad / oil cooler.

Also we don't run hood pins and its been fine.

I was wondering more for a scenario where the aftermarket crash bar was installed and the extra airflow causing lift. I think this hood would probably be good for stop and go traffic where the heat would be trappy. At a stop light since heat rises, these vents would possibly allow that heat to exit up through the vents while the vehicle is not moving.

 

[MagnetiseST]

With a light bar limiting the flow of air behind the grill, would we see any real increase in engine temps ?

You are running a light bar, mounted behind the grille, blocking airflow to the radiator? I'd assume any decrease in airflow utilizing the stock set up would result in higher temps, but it heavily depends on what you are doing with the car. Mountain driving? Autox? Track? Street driving?

I realize front end real estate on the FiST is limited, you can get the Rally Innovations mount, or make your own that mounts the light bar lower, in front of the crash beam and bumper cover.