Bosch Uprated Injectors

[Fusion Works]

I doubt that test is anywhere relevant for the pressures we are seeing in reality. However, thanks for doing the testing anyways. Be interested to see what XDI says.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

Thank you for doing this Mike! This will be very valuable information to myself and many others.

No problem, just got the injectors back from RX, going to contact Extreme next, I would like more information.

 

[Ecmdrw5]

This is exciting. I pretty much gave up on going over the stock injectors level of power because I didn’t want to spend $700 for the extra power before maxing out the pump. I would do $320 though. Lol


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[Old Mike Emerson]

This is exciting. I pretty much gave up on going over the stock injectors level of power because I didn’t want to spend $700 for the extra power before maxing out the pump. I would do $320 though. Lol


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The Jag injector was I think $74.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

Contacted Extreme DI, waiting to see if they can test the injectors at higher pressure.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

Extreme got back to me, they can test at full pressure, I'm sending the injectors to them tomorrow. They did say they are busy so it could take 1-2 weeks to get them done. "The game is afoot" Sherlock Holmes! LOL

 

[Fusion Works]

Winner.

 

[bflan2001]

Awesome news!!!

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Extreme got back to me, they can test at full pressure, I'm sending the injectors to them tomorrow. They did say they are busy so it could take 1-2 weeks to get them done. "The game is afoot" Sherlock Holmes! LOL

Do they do injector cleaning also?

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[Old Mike Emerson]

Do they do injector cleaning also?

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Not sure, you would have to look at their site.

 

[kar11]

Hi
The Fiesta ST injectors flow 8.89g/sec at 100bar which = 770cc.

 

[Old Mike Emerson]

Hi
The Fiesta ST injectors flow 8.89g/sec at 100bar which = 770cc.

I want to compare the two injectors, if the Jag injector holds a 30% increase up to max pressure they are cheaper for a set of 4 from Rock Auto than buying the 30% injectors from the other venders. The first test was only to 75psi and the Jag injectors were holding a 40% increase over the Ford.

 

[kar11]

The Jag injector https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/718cc-min-hdev5.1le-direct-injector Bosch 0261 500 298
Flows 11.96g/second at 100bar which is 1050cc/min.
From my own experience if you go too big you'll have issues with idle and light throttle due to over-fueling. From my own testing on the 1.0 engine stepping up to the Jag units will be a great upgrade as they are not massively larger than stock. The hard part is getting the car set up to run a larger injector as there are tables that need updating although some of that could be worked out based on the old to new flow rates then check lambda as you make adjustments.
I love the thread and the fact you are all looking for a solution together rather than just pay a lot to someone for what is a standard part.

Just to add 100 bar = 1450psi. Also if the ST is like the 1.0 EcoBoost the max rail pressure stock is set to 150 bar.

 

[kar11]

Just done the math and the Jag injector is 34.5% larger than the stock unit.

 

[bflan2001]

The Jag injector https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/718cc-min-hdev5.1le-direct-injector Bosch 0261 500 298
Flows 11.96g/second at 100bar which is 1050cc/min.
From my own experience if you go too big you'll have issues with idle and light throttle due to over-fueling. From my own testing on the 1.0 engine stepping up to the Jag units will be a great upgrade as they are not massively larger than stock. The hard part is getting the car set up to run a larger injector as there are tables that need updating although some of that could be worked out based on the old to new flow rates then check lambda as you make adjustments.
I love the thread and the fact you are all looking for a solution together rather than just pay a lot to someone for what is a standard part.

Just to add 100 bar = 1450psi. Also if the ST is like the 1.0 EcoBoost the max rail pressure stock is set to 150 bar.

Finally some concrete numbers! Now let's just hope XDI comes back with similar numbers to confirm. Thanks again @Old Mike Emerson and also to @kar11 for coming out of nowhere with the numbers straight from Bosch. Now I can finally try modifying these injectors! I'm actually in the middle of changing jobs but luckily my new shop also has a nice lathe I should be able to use.

 

[jeffreylyon]

I may be missing something above, but it feels like a cheap shot for the vendors to be so tight-lipped about whether their "upgraded" units are just OEM parts for a different application (as I believe we're going to find out).

IHMO, if the "upgraded" injectors are just OEM parts then the real work was done by the tuners who, again, IMHO, should feel free to announce to the world that these are OEM parts and sell an upgrade to their tunes to match these injectors to offset the cost of their engineering.

Engineering is costly. Vendors who soft-claim that they are engineering parts for our cars when, in fact, they're selling stock parts meant for other applications or are buying their competitors' parts just to copy them and source cheaper manufactures aren't adding to our community. In fact, they are discouraging other vendors who are able to engineer parts for our cars to do so as they will just be copied and sold at a lower price-point. Yes, two different complaints, but they feel of the same ilk to me.

If the work and expense that @Old Mike Emerson has undertaken proves that we can save $100's by buying these parts from normal channels rather than deceptively-labeled yet identical parts from opportunistic vendors then I, for one, am buying him a coupon for a pizza and may try to figure out how to send him a case of beer, as it's well-deserved.

 

[MagnetiseST]

I may be missing something above, but it feels like a cheap shot for the vendors to be so tight-lipped about whether their "upgraded" units are just OEM parts for a different application (as I believe we're going to find out).

IHMO, if the "upgraded" injectors are just OEM parts then the real work was done by the tuners who, again, IMHO, should feel free to announce to the world that these are OEM parts and sell an upgrade to their tunes to match these injectors to offset the cost of their engineering.

Engineering is costly. Vendors who soft-claim that they are engineering parts for our cars when, in fact, they're selling stock parts meant for other applications or are buying their competitors' parts just to copy them and source cheaper manufactures aren't adding to our community. In fact, they are discouraging other vendors who are able to engineer parts for our cars to do so as they will just be copied and sold at a lower price-point. Yes, two different complaints, but they feel of the same ilk to me.

If the work and expense that @Old Mike Emerson has undertaken proves that we can save $100's by buying these parts from normal channels rather than deceptively-labeled yet identical parts from opportunistic vendors then I, for one, am buying him a coupon for a pizza and may try to figure out how to send him a case of beer, as it's well-deserved.

This is a problem in the entire aftermarket section, not limited to just this platform.

Example: an "upgraded" fuel pump for the Veloster N is around $700. The fuel pump is sold as "TCR Version" (the racing series, implying it is upgraded from stock), however the part comes in a factory Hyundai box and has a part number stamped on it that crosses to a Hyundai Sonata. None of the vendors who sell this part will divulge where they actually obtain the part from, claiming it is from Hyundai Motorsport in Germany. It took quite a few forum members and some money to figure out that the part they are selling is actually the OE Sonata part, and that the true TCR part is only available through a single supplier in the US at a much higher cost. The Sonata pump is an upgrade for the Veloster N, but it is not the TCR part.

I don't understand why companies just can't be transparent about what things are or where they are from. If a company is modifying these injectors to change the seal location it absolutely makes sense to mark it up and charge for the modification. It doesn't make sense to grab something at cost and then re-sell it when you could just let the public know that there is an upgrade from another car that cost 0 for you to engineer.

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

IN POPCORN IN THE MICROWAVE.....

 

[Jabbit]

Let's not make assumptions. We've seen them side by side, they are clearly different. Like the above person said - they could be the same injectors with some modifications. Or completely different.

 

[jeffreylyon]

This is a problem in the entire aftermarket section, not limited to just this platform.

Example: an "upgraded" fuel pump for the Veloster N is around $700. The fuel pump is sold as "TCR Version" (the racing series, implying it is upgraded from stock), however the part comes in a factory Hyundai box and has a part number stamped on it that crosses to a Hyundai Sonata. None of the vendors who sell this part will divulge where they actually obtain the part from, claiming it is from Hyundai Motorsport in Germany. It took quite a few forum members and some money to figure out that the part they are selling is actually the OE Sonata part, and that the true TCR part is only available through a single supplier in the US at a much higher cost. The Sonata pump is an upgrade for the Veloster N, but it is not the TCR part.

I don't understand why companies just can't be transparent about what things are or where they are from. If a company is modifying these injectors to change the seal location it absolutely makes sense to mark it up and charge for the modification. It doesn't make sense to grab something at cost and then re-sell it when you could just let the public know that there is an upgrade from another car that cost 0 for you to engineer.

Well..., it does make financial sense to claim that a stock part for a different application is an upgraded part for our application, but it may not be terribly ethical or, at least, does not show much partnership with the platform-community. This is especially true if a vendor didn't figure this out themselves but is just copy-pasting what another vendor did figure out.

This is even more true with engineered parts; it's expensive to measure, prototype, and trial a cold-side pipe, for example. It's really cheap, comparatively, to buy one and send it offshore to have it copied. Engineering is hard, whether designing a new part or tinkering with existing parts to see what works. Copying is easy.