Faust's H Street Flailings

[faust]

Got to my first event in a couple months this past weekend.

Heavy rain most of the week leading up to the event. I'd heard the term "green track" before but never experienced it for myself. Despite hearing from other drivers that the track was pretty slippery, I went and looped it, putting all 4 wheels off the track, about 1/3 of the way through my first run.

At this location, going 4 off once gets you a warning, and twice gets you done for the day. My next few runs were slow, though I did pick up some speed in the afternoon session. Never really got my confidence back, and my best clean run was 3.5 seconds behind the faster FiST driver.

Talking with a few current & former FiST drivers, I think I got some insight into the torque vectoring / e-diff thing. Their experience was that it doesn't really do much if you back off the throttle as soon as a wheel starts spinning. If you let the wheelspin continue, that's when it applies the brake enough to vector some torque over to the other wheel. Will have to experiment with that some more.

 

[Rexracer]

I was hoping you were going to show us the spin! ;-)
An off definitely reduces the confidence and makes you timid the rest of the day.

My friends that I AX with (and have ridden with me), have a running joke where they mimick my driving "SAW SAW SAW STAB STAB SAW STAB" because my driver inputs are very abrupt, hard turns, quick stabs of brakes, quick on the gas. I was starting to think I needed to slow down and smooth things out, but one of our National Champion drivers jumped in my car, and he was WAY more aggressive with his inputs then me. Every fraction of a second slowly turning in to back-half on a slalom is lost time. Counter that with, we have all watched the Newbie that thinks he is the next super star race car driver go out and overdrive everywhere on course, ending with a time that you figure you could walk the track faster. The saying we use is controlled aggression, 95% of AX is in that 1% zone of being in control and out of control.

 

[faust]

Ask and ye shall receive:

What you say about inputs rings true. I got to ride along with our fast FiST driver last time, and the biggest thing that jumped out was that he was getting his braking done in a faction of the time / space I've been using. No doubt the other inputs as well.

 

[rhennin]

Ask and ye shall receive:

What you say about inputs rings true. I got to ride along with our fast FiST driver last time, and the biggest thing that jumped out was that he was getting his braking done in a faction of the time / space I've been using. No doubt the other inputs as well.

I hope that guy wasnt trying to run in sandals. Lol I would hope they have stations setup more for workers to have some protection or strategic positioning since traction on grass is much lower than pavement.

 

[faust]

I hope that guy wasnt trying to run in sandals. Lol I would hope they have stations setup more for workers to have some protection or strategic positioning since traction on grass is much lower than pavement.

Pretty sure those were shoes... anyhow, I think worker placement was reasonable, I just managed to go off course in an unpredictable place.

 

[Pablo Pistoffo]

Got to my first event in a couple months this past weekend.

Heavy rain most of the week leading up to the event. I'd heard the term "green track" before but never experienced it for myself. Despite hearing from other drivers that the track was pretty slippery, I went and looped it, putting all 4 wheels off the track, about 1/3 of the way through my first run.

At this location, going 4 off once gets you a warning, and twice gets you done for the day. My next few runs were slow, though I did pick up some speed in the afternoon session. Never really got my confidence back, and my best clean run was 3.5 seconds behind the faster FiST driver.

Talking with a few current & former FiST drivers, I think I got some insight into the torque vectoring / e-diff thing. Their experience was that it doesn't really do much if you back off the throttle as soon as a wheel starts spinning. If you let the wheelspin continue, that's when it applies the brake enough to vector some torque over to the other wheel. Will have to experiment with that some more.

I'm super envious of your huge venue- looks like a fun course- nicely done!

 

[faust]

2nd to last event was this weekend. Temps were predicted to be in the 60s, so the other FiST driver and I decided to co-drive, in the hopes that we'd be able to get some heat in the tires.

We started out in his car, which has the stock '19 suspension. It also has a sunroof, and it turns out that my helmet just barely fits in my no-sunroof car with my normal seat config, so I had to dial in a goodly amount of tilt to fit in his. It was weird trying to drive someone else's car at 10/10ths, even though they're 99% the same. Apparently the '19 has a stiffer front sway bar, and it did have a different feel on the corners. Hard to say how much was that, how much was stock '19 shocks vs. my bilsteins, and how much was 16" vs. 17" wheels.

Didn't have much of a chance to get used to it, as an incident rendered his car temporarily inoperable on his 2nd lap. Fortunately my car was 20' away and ready to go, so I didn't miss any runs. Even on cold tires, I felt more comfortable in my own car & cut almost half a second on my first lap.

We both got some decent runs in during the second session. I ended up 1.2 seconds behind him. Looking at the data, most of that was down to 1) me going into a few elements too hot & thus losing time getting back on the gas, 2) me being chicken on the blind downhill sweeper & letting off the gas too much.

My best lap:

His best:

 

[faust]

Last event of the season was this weekend.

Temps started out in the 60s, and the lot we were running isn't particularly grippy, which I demonstrated by doing a 180 on my second turn of the day.

Fortunately, the event proceeded smoothly enough that we were able to get a total of 7 runs in, and I was able to pick up some time on just about every run. Ended up 65th of 114 by raw time, 42nd by PAX.

Looking at my RT660s at the end of the season, with about 70 runs on them, it appears I could have gotten away with lower tire pressures. I was aiming for 44psi hot in front, which left the outside shoulders just lightly chewed up. Thinking I should get them flipped & see how much of next season they'll last.

 

[Jabbit]

I was aiming for 44psi hot in front, which left the outside shoulders just lightly chewed up. Thinking I should get them flipped & see how much of next season they'll last.

I don't auto-x but that seems super high. I street drive my re71r at about 33, then lower to 24 before I go out on my first session. After 10-15 mins they are back above 30. I go back down to about 26 and they hover between 26-30 all day from that point on.

 

[faust]

I don't auto-x but that seems super high. I street drive my re71r at about 33, then lower to 24 before I go out on my first session. After 10-15 mins they are back above 30. I go back down to about 26 and they hover between 26-30 all day from that point on.

have any camber? stock suspension here, those pressures would have me driving on the sidewall.

 

[Jabbit]

have any camber? stock suspension here, those pressures would have me driving on the sidewall.

Ah ok I didn't make that connection, makes total sense that you have to stay within class rules. I'm running ISC custom coilovers, rear camber plates, and some mild bracing.

 

[Rexracer]

I missed out on a bunch of your posts. Great spin! it always works out that its towards a marshal. YOu can tell him you were making sure he wasnt on his phone.

Thats awesome you got some side by side comparison with another FiST driver, and that you could gather data to learn what's going on.

With the RT660s on front I run 41-42PSI, but am willing to wipe out the shoulders.

I wish I had gotten some video from this last weekend, but what you observed before, faster inputs - steering/gas/brakes.

 

[foodtruck]

I was aiming for 44psi hot in front, which left the outside shoulders just lightly chewed up.

Good to know about the pressures, this is similar to what I was running RE71rs before and Indy 500s this season (16" rims). I think with FWD macpherson struts you'll end up with chewed up outside shoulders whatever you do. We have someone in our club running GTI with 3.5 degrees of camber and the shoulders still become round quite fast. Should last two seasons just fine when flipped.

I'm still trying to gauge how 660s are in the wet... Next season, these are going to double as my occasional daily tires and I'm wondering exactly how worse are they than RE71rs

 

[faust]

I missed out on a bunch of your posts. Great spin! it always works out that its towards a marshal. YOu can tell him you were making sure he wasnt on his phone.

Thats awesome you got some side by side comparison with another FiST driver, and that you could gather data to learn what's going on.

With the RT660s on front I run 41-42PSI, but am willing to wipe out the shoulders.

I wish I had gotten some video from this last weekend, but what you observed before, faster inputs - steering/gas/brakes.

Now that I've seen how the shoulders hold up to a season at 44psi, 41-42 sounds about right.

I think I was overly conservative earlier in the season, because I was chalking the tires, and they'd come back from a lap with no chalk quite a ways down the sidewall. I thought at first that was because they were rolling over, but it was pointed out to me that they were probably just rubbing on the liners.

It'll be interesting to see if they behave any differently at the lower pressure.

 

[faust]

Good to know about the pressures, this is similar to what I was running RE71rs before and Indy 500s this season (16" rims). I think with FWD macpherson struts you'll end up with chewed up outside shoulders whatever you do. We have someone in our club running GTI with 3.5 degrees of camber and the shoulders still become round quite fast. Should last two seasons just fine when flipped.

I'm still trying to gauge how 660s are in the wet... Next season, these are going to double as my occasional daily tires and I'm wondering exactly how worse are they than RE71rs

I have yet to drive the 660s in any significant amount of rain. They were fine a few times when it was damp. Standing water would be worrisome though.

 

[Rexracer]

I have yet to drive the 660s in any significant amount of rain. They were fine a few times when it was damp. Standing water would be worrisome though.

I dont drive any of these tires as a daily in the rain.. ok i dont even daily the Fiesta.

But, in the couple of AX we had in the rain this year (6x), I was top 1or2 PAX in ever single one. RT660s for the first one, then RE71s (old) for the next two. But my new favorite in the rain is the A052s, they are like glue. We had a large pond (20ft long, full width of gate, 1" deep) we came downhill through, everyone was hydroplaning, then a hard right about 20ft after the pond went way...just beyond that was a row of parked cars. So everyone was laying up to not slide through and hit the cars. But with the A0s - full throttle down the hill into the bond, hit the brakes while turning, slide over the top of the pond, and they would grab and pull me around the cone.

 

[M-Sport fan]

But my new favorite in the rain is the A052s, they are like glue. We had a large pond (20ft long, full width of gate, 1" deep) we came downhill through, everyone was hydroplaning, then a hard right about 20ft after the pond went way...just beyond that was a row of parked cars. So everyone was laying up to not slide through and hit the cars. But with the A0s - full throttle down the hill into the bond, hit the brakes while turning, slide over the top of the pond, and they would grab and pull me around the cone.

Which size Yoks are you running?

 

[Rexracer]

Which size Yoks are you running?

205/40R17, I run 215/40R17 in the RT660s

I went back up to 17s this year to try and get more side wall stiffness. It seems to help, but shoulder wear is still the main problem.

 

[faust]

205/40R17, I run 215/40R17 in the RT660s

I went back up to 17s this year to try and get more side wall stiffness. It seems to help, but shoulder wear is still the main problem.

I've heard from a couple fast & experienced FiST drivers locally that they prefer the 17" for RT660s.

 

[faust]

another season in the bag. Didn't get to as many events this year, but had a good time at the ones I could make. 2nd season on 200tw tires, and I'm getting a bit more comfortable pushing them closer to the limits.

Wanted to share an experience from yesterday's event. I gridded next to an older gentleman who had done a bunch of autocrossing years ago in a mini, and then been away from the sport. He just picked up an '18 FiST, and was doing his first event in it. Still on the original '18 tires, BTW. He had an absolute blast, really loved how it handled. Even new to the car and on shitty tires, his times in the morning beat mine! I did manage to find a few seconds on him in the afternoon session, but once he gets wheels and tires, he's going to be flying. Anyhow, it was a good reminder about the fun of autox, regardless of beating everybody or not.