Ok so I did some digging because I thought somewhere we could run straight e85 and I found it!
I'll be running this setup with my Whoosh Hybrid in a couple months if Adam can confirm I can get 350HP with it and NO MIXING!!
This is from Adam @ Tune+
๐ฅ๐ฒ๐๐๐น๐๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ซ๐๐ ๐ฃ๐๐บ๐ฝ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐๐ผ๐๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฏ๐ฌ% ๐ถ๐ป๐ท๐ฒ๐ฐ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฎ ๐ง๐๐ฟ๐ฏ๐ผ ๐ง๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ต๐ป๐ถ๐ฐ๐ ๐ฆ๐ฎ๐ด๐ฌ "๐๐๐ฏ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฑ".
๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐:
For clarity this is all being fueled by Direct Injection. There is ๐ก๐ข ๐๐จ๐ซ ๐๐จ๐๐ on this vehicle. This is 100% being controlled through the factory fuel system.
The car met commanded fuel pressure without problem through entire testing last night. I have attached a picture below (second picture) showing the commanded pressure (blue line) and actual pressure (green line). We are raising the high pressure demand with RPM as the pump flows MORE fuel with MORE RPM. Commanding more pressure than you need at lower RPM can just cause stress on the on the injectors. You only need to use as much pressure as needed to stay on your AFR target. You can see in the third picture below AFR was on target (12.0:1 AFR) the entire pull within 2%.
So we definitely have plenty of pump, and the injectors seem to be handling the combo just fine. I do believe with a little more ethanol we would reach the max of the injectors at 400whp on E60ish. Can't really say that for sure without actually doing the testing on it but we are going to wait for our next turbo to get here before we push this fuel system a little further. The goal will be to make 370-380whp on straight E85 out of the pump just to see if the fuel system can handle it. Which means 90% of the customers out there will be able to run E85 straight out of the pump without having to mix on their Sub 400whp car.
Now, I see people asking "Why wouldn't I just run Aux Fuel / Port Injection. It's cheaper, and it cleans the valves". So here are a few points on why we are looking to take Direct Injection upgrades as far as possible on the platforms we support.
- This is a simple bolt on affair, no need to tap wires into your stock engine harness, and no fuel lines or hardware to install. You simply remove the stock components and install the new upgraded parts. I was able to install both the injectors and the pump in less than an hour.
- There aren't two systems that need to be tuned. When you add AUX Fuel/Port Injection you are trying to make two ECU's work together that don't talk to each other. They are completely separated.
- No need to flash the injector controller or disconnect/turn off when switching fuels. With a full DI system that can support your two different fuels you simply fill up with whatever fuel you like and map switch.
- Aux fueling (for now) is controlled by a system made in 1998 (Split Second). This is batch fire, and not a sequential system. So it does not spray when the valves are open they all just fire at the same time regardless if the valve is open or not. This causes "puddling" and changes the state of the fuel from an atomized state and enters your cylinder as a "shot" of fuel versus efficiently combining in the cylinder with the fuel from the DI side.
- We, as well as most tuners charge more for aux fuel tuning. If you do the pump/injector upgrade it is covered in our standard tuning rates, no additional cost.
- Carbon build up is less of a factor when you are running Ethanol. The only reason you would need to do a fuel system upgrade like this would be to run more ethanol. With ethanol there is virtually no carbon deposits to bake onto the back of the valves.
- This is getting us a step closer to being able to provide a full flex fuel capable system through the stock ECU. Meaning you will be able to fill up with any fuel between E10 and E85 and the ECU will compensate automatically without switching tunes. No ETA on this obviously as there is another party involved that needs to provide the ability but we will get there.
Do I still recommend Port Injection / Aux Fuel? Absolutely. I can't say that it doesn't work because we have proven that it does work all the way up to 700whp. However I recommend that the DI system be upgraded ALONG WITH aux fuel when the fuel demand for just the DI system can't be met. Allowing your engine to get the majority of it's fuel from the DI system allows you to rely on the port injection less, which means you fuel the engine "MO BETTA" and it's less stress on the fuel system overall.
I'll be running this setup with my Whoosh Hybrid in a couple months if Adam can confirm I can get 350HP with it and NO MIXING!!
This is from Adam @ Tune+
๐ฅ๐ฒ๐๐๐น๐๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ซ๐๐ ๐ฃ๐๐บ๐ฝ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐๐ผ๐๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฏ๐ฌ% ๐ถ๐ป๐ท๐ฒ๐ฐ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฎ ๐ง๐๐ฟ๐ฏ๐ผ ๐ง๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ต๐ป๐ถ๐ฐ๐ ๐ฆ๐ฎ๐ด๐ฌ "๐๐๐ฏ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฑ".
๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐:
For clarity this is all being fueled by Direct Injection. There is ๐ก๐ข ๐๐จ๐ซ ๐๐จ๐๐ on this vehicle. This is 100% being controlled through the factory fuel system.
The car met commanded fuel pressure without problem through entire testing last night. I have attached a picture below (second picture) showing the commanded pressure (blue line) and actual pressure (green line). We are raising the high pressure demand with RPM as the pump flows MORE fuel with MORE RPM. Commanding more pressure than you need at lower RPM can just cause stress on the on the injectors. You only need to use as much pressure as needed to stay on your AFR target. You can see in the third picture below AFR was on target (12.0:1 AFR) the entire pull within 2%.
So we definitely have plenty of pump, and the injectors seem to be handling the combo just fine. I do believe with a little more ethanol we would reach the max of the injectors at 400whp on E60ish. Can't really say that for sure without actually doing the testing on it but we are going to wait for our next turbo to get here before we push this fuel system a little further. The goal will be to make 370-380whp on straight E85 out of the pump just to see if the fuel system can handle it. Which means 90% of the customers out there will be able to run E85 straight out of the pump without having to mix on their Sub 400whp car.
Now, I see people asking "Why wouldn't I just run Aux Fuel / Port Injection. It's cheaper, and it cleans the valves". So here are a few points on why we are looking to take Direct Injection upgrades as far as possible on the platforms we support.
- This is a simple bolt on affair, no need to tap wires into your stock engine harness, and no fuel lines or hardware to install. You simply remove the stock components and install the new upgraded parts. I was able to install both the injectors and the pump in less than an hour.
- There aren't two systems that need to be tuned. When you add AUX Fuel/Port Injection you are trying to make two ECU's work together that don't talk to each other. They are completely separated.
- No need to flash the injector controller or disconnect/turn off when switching fuels. With a full DI system that can support your two different fuels you simply fill up with whatever fuel you like and map switch.
- Aux fueling (for now) is controlled by a system made in 1998 (Split Second). This is batch fire, and not a sequential system. So it does not spray when the valves are open they all just fire at the same time regardless if the valve is open or not. This causes "puddling" and changes the state of the fuel from an atomized state and enters your cylinder as a "shot" of fuel versus efficiently combining in the cylinder with the fuel from the DI side.
- We, as well as most tuners charge more for aux fuel tuning. If you do the pump/injector upgrade it is covered in our standard tuning rates, no additional cost.
- Carbon build up is less of a factor when you are running Ethanol. The only reason you would need to do a fuel system upgrade like this would be to run more ethanol. With ethanol there is virtually no carbon deposits to bake onto the back of the valves.
- This is getting us a step closer to being able to provide a full flex fuel capable system through the stock ECU. Meaning you will be able to fill up with any fuel between E10 and E85 and the ECU will compensate automatically without switching tunes. No ETA on this obviously as there is another party involved that needs to provide the ability but we will get there.
Do I still recommend Port Injection / Aux Fuel? Absolutely. I can't say that it doesn't work because we have proven that it does work all the way up to 700whp. However I recommend that the DI system be upgraded ALONG WITH aux fuel when the fuel demand for just the DI system can't be met. Allowing your engine to get the majority of it's fuel from the DI system allows you to rely on the port injection less, which means you fuel the engine "MO BETTA" and it's less stress on the fuel system overall.
