Thoughts on modding while in warranty period

[Dpro]

If you can already afford LSD and clutch work, I don't understand the anxiety over the cost of maintenance.

If you can't afford the maintenance after modding you should seriously reconsider doing the mods.

I think you missed his point. Manual transmissions are technically not maintenance items as in they are a sealed unit that technically does not need servicing , they also tend to last the lifetime of a car in most cases never being touched.

His fear is should a trans blow up under warranty would the dealer cry foul for the sake of the fact that he had a LSD installed.


Its actually legit in the sense that no a LSD or high performance clutch should not affect warranty. Nor should it be something considered in a denial of warranty.

A stupid dealer saying that its does might be an issue. Its not unfortunately a lot of dealers are literally by the book to the fault of stupidity . This again is why I say I use Galpin a Performance dealer. They would not blink an eye.


When a car is under warranty if anything with a trans should happen its usually automatically covered by a dealer.

I should also add transmissions are not exactly the cheapest thing in the world and its an ouch regardless of how much money one has . lol

 

[XR650R]

dont really care about the cost of maintenance and never brought that up in the first place. what I can or cannot afford not really your business.

blowing up trannys and having one replaced cost a bit more. have had bad luck with transmission before. went through 3 of them on my 240sx before getting a new z32 & conversion.

No need to get defensive. We're all friends here.

To the best of my knowledge, this has the same tranny used in the FoST and the FoRS. It just has a smaller case to fit in the Fiesta. It can handle some extra ponies, and outside of really extreme use, it's solid.

 

[ronmcdon]

DPRO - thank you for explaining things better than I. I do not know in what universe is replacing transmissions considered maintenance. They are not cheap parts or labor regardless of whether one can afford them or not. Dropped my tranny twice and its around a ground.

There is no actual proof I'm aware of that installation of an LSD compromises reliability in any way. However what is an actual risk factor VS what dealers claim to be risk factors to deny warrantee work is another issue. Yes, agreed working with the right dealer makes all the difference in that regard. Galpin Ford had been great to me in the past.

 

[iammacey]

That's my take on the LSD. If I'm doing that, I'm mentally taking ownership of any transmission problems that may manifest.

I wasn't implying it did. Nor do I think it's a maintenance item.

The point I was trying to make is that, by cracking the transmission I'm mentally preparing for a dealer to blame me should the transmission have a failure. I never said an LSD causes a failure.

 

[gtx3076]

I meant repair. It's the risk you take when you do mods. My warranty is up so I accept the cost of having to replace the motor.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Mikey456]

I wasn't implying it did. Nor do I think it's a maintenance item.

The point I was trying to make is that, by cracking the transmission I'm mentally preparing for a dealer to blame me should the transmission have a failure. I never said an LSD causes a failure.

I get what you are saying...but what about changing out the Tranny fluid? For arguments sake, the dealer can technically identify that you used non factory transmission oil and deny a claim????

 

[M-Sport fan]

I get what you are saying...but what about changing out the Tranny fluid? For arguments sake, the dealer can technically identify that you used non factory transmission oil and deny a claim????

NOT if it meets and officially carries that Ford spec, despite it being a different 'type' of fluid than the factory installed DCT crap.

They technically CAN deny a warranty claim on the gearbox IF they can prove that thick Motul Gear 300 (which is NOT specced for our IB6 gearboxes by Ford) caused the damage being claimed under warranty, but they would have to do an analysis of the gear oil to prove that's what was in there and caused the damage as well.

(Magnuson-Moss act)

 

[jmrtsus]

Unfortunately many people think modding voids your entire warranty or the dealer can void your warranty. The fact is the dealer cannot by Fed regulations ( M-M Act) void your warranty. Your warranty is legally not with the dealer it is with FOMOCO who will still cover other items on your car not affected by your mods. In other words even Ford cannot void your engine/powertrain coverage for suspension mods for example. They can refuse to deal with squeaks and rattles due to suspension changes. Engine mods affecting power or emissions will end what your 39K/50K powertrain warranty will cover unless it is the MP-215 properly registered. At this point I would think the great majority of the MP-215 cars have ended warranties by time or mileage as I have with my '16. The only exception I remember is FOMOCO can void your entire warranty for racing/timed events.

 

[Mikey456]

I found this Motorcraft Synthetic Gear oil. I wonder if it’s any good for our cars?

 

[haste]

I found this Motorcraft Synthetic Gear oil. I wonder if it’s any good for our cars?

That's what I use in my Focus SVT getrag gearbox. It's a different spec than what the IB6 gearbox in the Fiesta ST calls for. I wouldn't chance it.

 

[jmrtsus]

NOT if it meets and officially carries that Ford spec, despite it being a different 'type' of fluid than the factory installed DCT crap.

They technically CAN deny a warranty claim on the gearbox IF they can prove that thick Motul Gear 300 (which is NOT specced for our IB6 gearboxes by Ford) caused the damage being claimed under warranty, but they would have to do an analysis of the gear oil to prove that's what was in there and caused the damage as well.

(Magnuson-Moss act)

If the opinion of Ford (as an expert on Ford products) is the oil you used did not meet spec's the M-M Arbitrator (M-M hearings are Arbitrated and no lawyers allowed for either side) will have to determine if Ford denied warranty coverage due to non spec oil incorrectly. The Arbitrator will ask you to show proof what you used meets or exceeds Ford spec's as stated in your warranty. Arbitration is similar to court in the sense of you being the plaintiff (you filed a complaint) and Ford is the defendant. And like in court you must prove Ford is violating the M-M Act by refusing your warranty rights. The arbitrator does not want a bunch of what, when and who said what. All the hearing will be about is you proving the oil you used was up to Ford spec's......Yes or No? If it was you win and get your transmission fixed, if not you will be buying one.

BTW, Congress could never pass an Act requiring one private company (Ford) to certify (test) another private companies products. Never stand up in court. The third party companies are responsible for their own testing and proof they meet the Ford spec's printed on their container.

 

[iammacey]

I get what you are saying...but what about changing out the Tranny fluid? For arguments sake, the dealer can technically identify that you used non factory transmission oil and deny a claim????

This has been addressed by others very effectively by others. I would just add that, furthering my LSD example: if I swap in an LSD I would be prepared for a Ford dealer to deny a warranty claim on the transmission, but only on the transmission. An engine failure would still be covered.

I would also say that, technically, Ford would have to prove the LSD caused the transmission failure. I'm sure, however, I would have to prove it didn't. Either through a suit or arbitration.

Modding within warranty assumes risk, but it's also important to still understand your rights and the impact of the mod.

It's also important to take the appropriate approach, not lose your composure, don't be combative, etc...

 

[Intuit]

Generally speaking, you void the drivetrain warranty. Put the shoe on the other foot. You run a business. Someone shows up asking for YOU to pay for repairs on a 197HP vehicle that had the transmission altered. You know it generally doesn't make sense to modify the transmission on 197HP. You're a savvy business owner who's no dummy. You also know it's easy to hide prior changes that increase HP. Do *YOU* pay for those drivetrain repairs with *YOUR* hard earned money? Unlikely.

The purpose of warranty is to provide the buyer some form of assurance that the product is reliable, and recourse for repair should Murphy rear his ugly mug. (which unfortunately is not at all unexpected in something as complex as a vehicle) It costs a lot to GET a customer and ultimately the warranty programs are designed around obtaining repeat business, trust, confidence. Bottom line, warranty is about the bottom line. The bottom line is, paying for repairs on modified vehicles, makes neither cents or sense.

There's unavoidable risk associated with taking anything apart, replacing and putting anything back together again. It makes sense for a manufacturer to take on much of the risk associated with production and assembly. It makes no sense that the customer be exempt from those same risks, when *they* decide to take things apart and put them together again.

If warranty is important, wait out the warranty period; 3 years or 36,000 miles and longer if your drivetrain warranty is longer. If warranty is not important, do whatever you want.

 

[Erick_V]

I hate to agree with you @Intuit but you make a great point. It's very easy to blame a trans failure on a guy that's running 300+lbft through a trans with an LSD, or even without, that was installed by someone other than Ford themselves. It's unfortunate but one of those "pay to play" kinds of things. Trans failures happen on stock cars too. What makes you think that running FBO and E30 (like myself) will help your case? My trans slightly whines 3rd and 4th and I have nobody to blame but myself, I'm not exactly nice to my trans with FFS and constant autox abuse, hell I have 2 events in June and I'm a sucker for a podium if not a win in SMF/Tire class and I have to really work for it. I certainly wouldn't even bother going to the dealer if I lost 3rd tomorrow.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^That's why I wish that Ford would have given us the (at extra cost to US) option of a factory installed limited slip diff (to address that one point).

 

[XR650R]

^^^That's why I wish that Ford would have given us the (at extra cost to US) option of a factory installed limited slip diff (to address that one point).

That would be nice, but this was a low volume car in the western world. They weren't going to give us a 3 door, let alone performance options like a LSD.

The Mk8 has that option, along with some other goodies, but we'll never see it. We're stuck with what came out of Cuautitlán. America doesn't want hot hatches.

Too bad. That's basically my favorite kind of car.

 

[Dpro]

Generally speaking, you void the drivetrain warranty. Put the shoe on the other foot. You run a business. Someone shows up asking for YOU to pay for repairs on a 197HP vehicle that had the transmission altered. You know it generally doesn't make sense to modify the transmission on 197HP. You're a savvy business owner who's no dummy. You also know it's easy to hide prior changes that increase HP. Do *YOU* pay for those drivetrain repairs with *YOUR* hard earned money? Unlikely.

The purpose of warranty is to provide the buyer some form of assurance that the product is reliable, and recourse for repair should Murphy rear his ugly mug. (which unfortunately is not at all unexpected in something as complex as a vehicle) It costs a lot to GET a customer and ultimately the warranty programs are designed around obtaining repeat business, trust, confidence. Bottom line, warranty is about the bottom line. The bottom line is, paying for repairs on modified vehicles, makes neither cents or sense.

There's unavoidable risk associated with taking anything apart, replacing and putting anything back together again. It makes sense for a manufacturer to take on much of the risk associated with production and assembly. It makes no sense that the customer be exempt from those same risks, when *they* decide to take things apart and put them together again.

If warranty is important, wait out the warranty period; 3 years or 36,000 miles and longer if your drivetrain warranty is longer. If warranty is not important, do whatever you want.

Devils advocate time.. Funny you mention this because I actually asked my Service guy at Galpin if they could put in a LSD for me and he quoted a price, in fact he did not say oh that will void your warranty.

Which is basically if its done at a Performance Ford dealer chances are you would still get warranty if they were willing to do the install in the first place.

Of course Galpin is not an ordinary Ford dealership as they work and have GT’s and pumped Mustangs all over the place have their own Performance shop besides the regular shop as well and even modify new cars for sale.

So like I said before it all depends on who you go too. It’s also why I keep on saying seek out the Ford Performance dealers as they are gonna be more mod friendly and less likely to blame the mod for the sake of failure. Does this mean one should take advantage of them no.
So ya YMMV

I will add this ….
Quite honestly if I blew my engine from pushing it too hard with the S280 I would just buy another engine. I would not try to claim it. If my trans went though ya I would probably seek out warranty . Why because anyone who thinks our trans cannot handle 300ft lbs of torque at this point has not paid attention for the last 6-7 years. Lots of big Turbo cars , engines blow axles sometimes go. Not seen too many if any posts about trans blown due to the bigger turbo’s . Have seen posts about trans going just because and that is probably partly due to the fact that like I said before nothing is 100% in manufacturing and there is stuff that will fail from the factory. Does it mean its weak overall? If it was we would see a lot more blown trans.
Caveat emptor. YMMV

 

[Intuit]

@XR650R - Interestingly Ford isn't the only manufacturer to treat the US market this way. With the motorcycle that I have, there are additional features, such as an immobilizer, that are standard with the models sold in the EU.

@Dpro - Re "Devil's Advocate", it being over-engineered, the owner could reason that, "The transmission likely would have fallen within MTBF, *if* it were left on the standard 197HP." Had they factored the MTBF based on a higher 220HP spec, the base price of the vehicle may have been a tad higher. Man trans are a little different, but with most things, running them closer to peak load, lowers MTBF.

 

[ronmcdon]

. Not seen too many if any posts about trans blown due to the bigger turbo’s . Have seen posts about trans going just because and that is probably partly due to the fact that like I said before nothing is 100% in manufacturing and there is stuff that will fail from the factory. Does it mean its weak overall? If it was we would see a lot more blown trans.
Caveat emptor. YMMV

that's really the thing, if the trans goes out and you have an lsd thrown in, you really don't know if it's b/c the LSD or manufacturing. If my trans goes out, definitely taking my car into Galpin. If I can save a couple grand, I will. If not, will not get thrown in prison. lsd isn't an obvious mod like having an accessport or bright colored 2J intake that dealers typically look for when deciding whether to void warrantee claims. What makes me more nervous would be an aftermarket clutch, because that would look obvious should the dealer actually open up the transmission. Betting on they won't. To address what another poster said about trans fluid being changed avoiding warrantee, yeah betting on they won't drain the fluid and analyze it further. No way in hell am I keeping oem transmission fluid and not inspecting if it's not filled correctly from the factory.

To be clear, much more interested in what one can get away with, which as I understand is usually the purpose of such discussions. The belief of don't mod if you don't want to void your warrantee is not a new insight to anyone at best.

Oh and I don't mind spending more to make a car more reliable. Have done so on this car, but there are limited options to what you can or cannot mod.

 

[M-Sport fan]

That would be nice, but this was a low volume car in the western world. They weren't going to give us a 3 door, let alone performance options like a LSD.

The Mk8 has that option, along with some other goodies, but we'll never see it. We're stuck with what came out of Cuautitlán. America doesn't want hot hatches.

Too bad. That's basically my favorite kind of car.
View attachment 40894

I even liked the Omni GLH/GLHSes back in their day, 'shitbox' as everyone blasted them for being, as well as the Swift GTi.