Unimpressed with Pierce 6 points brace quality

[Ford ST]

Absolutely TRUE, but I personally will STILL take scientific proof/measurements over ANY/ALL 'seat of the pants' BS, every day of the week.

Show me the measurable evidence, and I will become a 'true believer' in all of this bracing.
(i.e.; When I go WOT in this factory stock car, it "FEELS LIKE" it is doing a 5 second flat 0-60, or better, operative words here; FEELS LIKE. I have owned a 12.5 second 115 MPH trap 4th gen Z28, so YES, I know what an actual sub 5 0-60 IS. )

I understand what you are saying but how could anyone actually test that?

I put trust in certain individuals and if enough of them say hey I think it makes the car feel better these are the improvements I'm willing to give it a try.
Life is short experiment.

By the stuff when it's on sale like Black Friday get 20% off free shipping and if you think it's shit send it back or sell it.
Do not ever pay full price.


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[SrsBsns]

Just to throw this out there, I'm running the 6 point brace on my car. The install was very difficult and frustrating. But I believe that is more due to the chassis flexing than the actual brace being incorrectly measured. The brace did make a noticeable difference once installed and has held up well over the last year+ that's it's been installed. Turn-in feels sharper. Cornering feels tighter. I wouldn't put the change on par with the night-and-day difference of installing a RMM, but it definitely was an improvement.

I'm not an engineer so I can't say how issues in fitment will affect the characteristics of the brace. I'm not a welder, so I can't speak to what they could or should have done better. But I bought mine at a discount and I'm happy with how it's performed.

I don't track but I do drive hard and I examine the brace when I have the car up for oil changes and haven't noticed anything that would be a concern.

Aside from the PITA install, the only other thing I don't like is the ground clearance. I'm already lowered and putting this on means that there is a good chance it will scrape on speed bumps or any debris on the road.

All that said, I would recommend the brace with the disclaimer that the install will most likely suck.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Look, I'm (along with RAAMaudio and BRGT350<-who is an actual chassis/suspension engineer) not a big fan of ANY bracing at all unless it is a fully tied-in/triangulated cage setup.

To be fair, RAAMaudio put together his own 2-point but did say that a Ford engineer who was involved with their motorsports program agreed that not much else was needed after taking a look. It should be noted that the engineer said that with 0 other experience with the platform.

I didn't have a 2-point prior to installing my 6-point. The 6-point made a very noticeable difference in initial turn-in. My 6-point is a circa-2016 Pierce part but the welds and the power coast are *way* better than pictured in this post.

 

[Alkoran]

Just a follow up. I sent an email to Pierce late yesterday and got a reply early this morning. That in itself reassured me that they care about customer service.

Then, the content of the reply was also a relief.

They agreed that the bar did not look good. They also stated that they got overwhelmed with BF sale and they outsourced then dropshipped some of the welding and that might explain why my bar was not up to par quality wise. So they will build a new one and send me a prepaid shipping label so I can ship them back the faulty one.

That's at least a good start!

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^They get a fair amount of business from our platform, maybe not as much as from the Mazda, 'duh, and 'dai folks, but still a lot, so yeah, that's the least they could do to make up for THEIR f-up.

 

[XR650R]

I got a front strut brace from them a while back. It didn't fit. I sent them some pics detailing what was happening, and they sent me a new one. It fits great.
They stand behind their products, in my experience.

 

[ronmcdon]

The difference is the Summit has a bit lower profile and it does not have what I feel think are useless the v angled bars in the center. I also like the Summit due to the fact that is forged triple tube aluminum oval. l

what do you mean by lower profile and how it's triple tube aluminum? what are the advantages of that? lower profile as in better ground clearance and the material used more durable? yeah a shame we don't get summit parts, no doubt. hopefully they'll be easier to obtain after covid.

would be happy to get Summit because I am quite enjoying getting british aftermarket parts for its own sake. not sure if BDM (instead of JDM) is a thing.

 

[PunkST]

that DNA Batwing looks like it would do nothing cause it appears to be flat sheetmetal whats your impression of it.

It replaces the little flimsy c channel pieces on the front subframe and ties into at least 4 more points if i remember right. Its an already thick spot on the subframe. Adding another 3/16" thick ( at least) large plate like that is going to do the same as hanging a tubular brace from the same points. With better clearance. The 2 point front does most of the work controlling deflection. If you want more control, poly control arm bushings is going to give the most reward imo.


That said its great to not need to drive the car on blocks to jack it up any more. ( i always lift grom the subframe when possible to keep the pinch welds nice)

 

[Dpro]

what do you mean by lower profile and how it's triple tube aluminum? what are the advantages of that? lower profile as in better ground clearance and the material used more durable? yeah a shame we don't get summit parts, no doubt. hopefully they'll be easier to obtain after covid.

would be happy to get Summit because I am quite enjoying getting british aftermarket parts for its own sake. not sure if BDM (instead of JDM) is a thing.

yes better ground clearance. Three forged aluminum small tubes alongside each other its a way to get strength with lightness. if you cut one open it would be like there are 3 small chambers. Yes inherently a round tube with be stronger than an Oval tube and and a tube period will be stronger than a piece of flat metal. depending on the composition of said material.
Now the two operative things I am looking for here is weight and strength as strength will help in the rigidity we are looking for here. I will mention Raamaudio here as when he went to Octane Academy back in like 14-15 he had his own homemade traction brace spanning the two front lower control arms. He took his car there and at that time the whole thing was a lot more involved as they actually stuck his car up on the lift at the facility and looked at his mods. The Ford Racing tech their looked at and went yup thats all you need on this car.
Now thing is it does not stop companies from making unneeded parts that might sell because “is stiffer” I know you are well aware of this from the previous world we were/are still in ( somewhat) lol . Lots of unneeded stuff was made for that platform and marketed as must have.
So there is a debate how much extra stiffness does this chassis need? Much like M Sport fan has pointed out no one has put out better track times because they used the Pierce 6 point beyond anecdotal.
So there remains skepticism as to how much is needed.
Though looking at the way the control arms are and looking at companies like BMW who actually made a factory cross brace to put on the convertible M3’s for added rigidity which everyone puts on their coupes and 4/5’s as well.

So the two point is most likely a valid unit with the 4 point just tying it all together a bit better.
Sorry if I digressed in explanation mode. The other factor is ground clearance. Which is why I looked at the both the TB and the Summit and much prefer the Summit design wise.
While the TB is functional it is nothing pretty. I scratch my head as to why the V angles were put in but then I realize using the flat metal like he did he might have had to add them to increase the strength enough again this is where tubes win out.

I should after watching friends Pierce two points collecting rocks on the road and getting bent because of it multiple times. I was interested in as much ground clearance as one could get.
Perhaps doing Poly Control arm bushings might be the better route.
That is the how and the why.

 

[Dpro]

It replaces the little flimsy c channel pieces on the front subframe and ties into at least 4 more points if i remember right. Its an already thick spot on the subframe. Adding another 3/16" thick ( at least) large plate like that is going to do the same as hanging a tubular brace from the same points. With better clearance. The 2 point front does most of the work controlling deflection. If you want more control, poly control arm bushings is going to give the most reward imo.


That said its great to not need to drive the car on blocks to jack it up any more. ( i always lift grom the subframe when possible to keep the pinch welds nice)

I know what it is supposed to do. I was questioning if you noticed or felt it really helped over the stock stuff. I also know the 2 point does most of the deflection hence why some of us feel its the only one that is truly needed.
Ya Koozy felt the same way that doing the Poly control Arm bushings would probably work the best and possibly negate the having to do the two point brace.

 

[PunkST]

Id do the two point and poly.

Personally i like that the batwing doesnt hang crazy low. I dont like dragging the car over stuff. Lol.
Seeing as i went from one brace type to the other, the only difference i felt was weight shed off the nose. If that helps any.

 

[ronmcdon]

which front control arm bushings are we talking about, these ones?

https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/p...a-st-mk7-front-control-arm-front-bushing-3654
https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/p...ntrol-arm-rear-bushing-caster-adjustable-1173

may look to replace them since I plan to replace the steering rack bushings later this month. apologies if getting off topic.

 

[PunkST]

Good question. But yes. Id do both sets if you plan to track the car.

 

[ronmcdon]

yeah I will do that, install the powerflex bushings first and postpone installation of tb braces. later will throw on the braces and see if they make much of a difference. sadly this'll be on the butt dyno.

 

[skold]

When do these things go on sale besides BF and what's a good sale price for one? I'm not in a huge rush but will pull the trigger on a decent price.

 

[ronmcdon]

had the powerflex front control arm race (black not purple) bushings installed. thats the poly and solid uniball bushings. also along with that had the 'alex the machinist' aluminum steering bushings and wow steering has improved pretty dramatically. car a lot more confidence inspiring to push on the corners. No noticeable increase in nvh. took it to a regular alignment shop and had front camber set -1.9

sadly still a hint of torque steer but it seems to have helped quite a bit too. will throw on braces (tb front lower 4 pt and the other 4pt, torsion beam brace) by the end of the month and see if there's any difference.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^I forgot now (can't find the thread), but does the whole front subframe/cross member have to be dropped in order to install the solid alloy 'alex' bushings??

 

[ronmcdon]

Had it done at mechanic but yes I recall those were the instructions. but wow what a difference it made. only regret is not doing that and the control arm bushings separately to know what contributed to what.