Building an engine to last

[M-Sport fan]

my $0.02 is why are you stuck with a local tuner? Can't you do remote / datalogs? Could open up a variety of options for your tuning needs... and to me, that is where I would look for the root cause.

Are there any hand held tuners like our APs over in Europe?

Maybe they are forced to do in person tunes because of the lack of the above, and/or the lack of internet tuners even if hand helds are available?

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

250-280whp is regularly done on a 1.6L stock block, and fairly reliably. I really don't think there is anything too exotic that you'd need to install to hit those goals. As others have mentioned, the causes of failures were mostly not due to shortcomings on the engines side but rather the tune. Now that the cooling has been addressed, personally I'd just throw a stock engine in there.

I mean OP has listed their power target, and has also stated that they have gone through no less than 3 engines at, I assume, that power level. Either OP has the worst luck in the world or a bad tuner OR the engine isn’t necessarily as reliable at those power levels as everyone claims. Now, I will absolutely acknowledge my lack of experience here, since I’m essentially on a stage 1 stock engine, but given all of the data OP has presented it’s pretty easy to just recommend he go with a larger displacement engine. I’m not saying the 1.6 is a bad motor, but clearly for OP it’s just not working for them/their tune/their driving style. A stock tune 2.0 is going to be more reliable than a 1.6 with the wick turned up by 30-40% especially since people here are suggesting fuel quality, which a tuned motor needs to not be a variable. A stock tune won’t struggle with lower fuel quality and the only way OP is gonna get that power target without changing fuel quality is to get the 2.0. It’ll be a bit of custom work, absolutely, but being that OP has been through 3 engines in various states of build, I’d assume they are willing to deal with a little custom fab and as far as ECUs go there are plenty of aftermarket ECUs and you could absolutely set one up to run a stock tune. The easier route, obviously, would to just be swap the FiST for a FoST and pull weight out of the FoST.

My .02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[M-Sport fan]

True, there are myriad aftermarket, stand alone, ECUs out there, but NONE OF THEM are street/emissions legal, and will NOT pass most of Europe's draconian inspections (sometimes even MORE SO than the much berated on here, Cali's), plug-in, or otherwise.

Just ask Dr. Prutteklutt on here what he has to go through for inspection and aftermarket part approvals, and yes, he is in Germany, not Denmark, but most of western Europe is probably the same, especially under the E.U. now.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

True, there are myriad aftermarket, stand alone, ECUs out there, but NONE OF THEM are street/emissions legal, and will NOT pass most of Europe's draconian inspections (sometimes even MORE SO than the much berated on here, Cali's), plug-in, or otherwise.

OP is tuned, right? Aftermarket turbo and all? I have to imagine that emissions isn’t as much of an issue in that scenario.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dhoffman]

I mean OP has listed their power target, and has also stated that they have gone through no less than 3 engines at, I assume, that power level. Either OP has the worst luck in the world or a bad tuner OR the engine isn’t necessarily as reliable at those power levels as everyone claims. Now, I will absolutely acknowledge my lack of experience here, since I’m essentially on a stage 1 stock engine, but given all of the data OP has presented it’s pretty easy to just recommend he go with a larger displacement engine. I’m not saying the 1.6 is a bad motor, but clearly for OP it’s just not working for them/their tune/their driving style. A stock tune 2.0 is going to be more reliable than a 1.6 with the wick turned up by 30-40%. It’ll be a bit of custom work, absolutely but being that OP has been through 3 engines in various states of build, I’d assume they are willing to deal with a little custom fab and as far as ECUs go there are plenty of aftermarket ECUs and you could absolutely set one up to run a stock tune. The easier route, obviously, would to just be swap the FiST for a FoST and pull weight out of the FoST.

My .02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you're significantly underestimating the amount of work it would take to get that engine in a Fiesta and operating like stock. It would take considerable time and money to have it done. Not only that but the 2L is a more unreliable motor.

Most users who have commented here are suggesting a bad tune because we know the 1.6 is very robust and handles power very well, even past the 280whp OP is hoping for. Is a stock 2L going to be more reliable than a 30-40% more power than stock 1.6L? Absolutely. The amount of resources to get there will not be worth it at all though. The fabrication and electronics work alone could probably pay for 10 1.6L blocks. Look around at the forum at the people who make 250whp+, there are tons of them and none of them are running a 2L from the FoST because it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[M-Sport fan]

OP is tuned, right? Aftermarket turbo and all? I have to imagine that emissions isn’t as much of an issue in that scenario.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe he found a way around it?

Hell, if I had the coin, was going aftermarket stand alone ECU already, and did not have to worry about emissions/inspection at all, I would drop a fully built, 2.0 Olsbergs MSE rallycross engine in it, good for 600 to the wheels (Pectel stand alone controlled), and just de-tune it down to what the front tires, and a limited slip equipped, transverse sequential transaxle could handle. LOL
(Rallycross cars use a 'north-south', inline engine position with their AWD drive trains.)

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

I think you're significantly underestimating the amount of work it would take to get that engine in a Fiesta and operating like stock. It would take considerable time and money to have it done. Not only that but the 2L is a more unreliable motor.

Most users who have commented here are suggesting a bad tune because we know the 1.6 is very robust and handles power very well, even past the 280whp OP is hoping for. Is a stock 2L going to be more reliable than a 30-40% more power than stock 1.6L? Absolutely. The amount of resources to get there will not be worth it at all though. The fabrication and electronics work alone could probably pay for 10 1.6L blocks. Look around at the forum at the people who make 250whp+, there are tons of them and none of them are running a 2L from the FoST because it wouldn't be worth it.

So what I’m reading is that if your going through the trouble to swap a 2.0 in you may as well swing for the fence and go 2.3...

Sorry back on topic, you are correct I’m not really considering all the work that would go into it, at the same rate details on tolerances and budget haven’t been expressly shared so I tend to go a bit laisse faire in that case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dhoffman]

So what I’m reading is that if your going through the trouble to swap a 2.0 in you may as well swing for the fence and go 2.3...

Sorry back on topic, you are correct I’m not really considering all the work that would go into it, at the same rate details on tolerances and budget haven’t been expressly shared so I tend to go a bit laisse faire in that case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The fact that I'm not the only one daydreaming about a 2.3L in a Fiesta is good to know at least

 

[Intuit]

Problem with a 2.3L GDI-Turbo in a Fiesta? One word. Traction. I think you'll need all-wheel drive to get the most out of a swap like that. Basically you want a Fiesta RS.

 

[dhoffman]

Problem with a 2.3L GDI-Turbo in a Fiesta? One word. Traction. I think you'll need all-wheel drive to get the most out of a swap like that. Basically you want a Fiesta RS.

A Fiesta RS is exactly what I want actually. Unless Toyota sells that incredible new GR Yaris here.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

A Fiesta RS is exactly what I want actually. Unless Toyota sells that incredible new GR Yaris here.

Maybe in 20 years....But.... You can wish in one hand and poopy in the other to see which one fills up first!

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

 

[daloonie]

A Fiesta RS is exactly what I want actually. Unless Toyota sells that incredible new GR Yaris here.

I have had wet dreams of an AWD 2.3l fiesta too i might add, and yes looks like we will be getting the yaris gr here in denmark. For a neat sum of around 78.000$ 😉

Engine swaps are out of the question though, too comprehensive and expensive. I can pull and engine and put it back in, but I can't fabricate. I would love to be able to, but i don't have the skills for it. Nor the place, I use my parents driveway as my workshop 😅

I get through smog because I still have a cat, a milltek 200 cell one. Denmark is restricted to a max tune of 20% power increase. Above you will have to have the car checked and approved by a state authorized shop.
But the biannual MOT is not very strict and is mostly based on the safety of the vehicle, like brakes, lights, rust and all round state of the vehicle. And of course pollution. They don't read the ecu to see if it has been tampered with.

Budget wise I'm getting a hole ripped in my wallet but it's roughly 6500$.

I will definitely consider a remote tune. That is indeed an interesting thought. The only comparable AP, to cobb, is the mountune mtune that supports eu fiestas. Else there is only this stratagem imap I've never heard of: https://pumaspeed.co.uk/product-Stratagem-iMap-Fiesta-ST180_16926.jsp

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Problem with a 2.3L GDI-Turbo in a Fiesta? One word. Traction. I think you'll need all-wheel drive to get the most out of a swap like that. Basically you want a Fiesta RS.

Whoa whoa whoa, it wouldn’t need the 350 HP variety that the FoRS had, I’d be happy with the same tune the USDM Ranger sees. Add in a little of that boost by gear magic that Ford does (limit boost until 4th gear) and I think you would get an entirely manageable amount of engine power to deal with and man would it be a beast in 4th.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Intuit]

A Fiesta RS is exactly what I want actually. Unless Toyota sells that incredible new GR Yaris here.

I LOVE the size of the Fiesta so would jump at a Fiesta RS also. But in terms of performance, it's looking like we'd be lucky to get anything smaller than a Mustang or Fusion from Ford. Mustang Mach-E BTW looks like an SUV now.

 

[M-Sport fan]

But the biannual MOT is not very strict and is mostly based on the safety of the vehicle, like brakes, lights, rust and all round state of the vehicle. And of course pollution. They don't read the ecu to see if it has been tampered with.

So, since there is NO actual plug into the OBD port performed during your inspections, you could use a stand alone ECU if you so desired, as long as your tailpipe 'sniffer test' emissions are below the given maximum levels?

 

[M-Sport fan]

I LOVE the size of the Fiesta so would jump at a Fiesta RS also. But in terms of performance, it's looking like we'd be lucky to get anything smaller than a Mustang or Fusion from Ford. Mustang Mach-E BTW looks like an SUV now.

The way they are going, one will not be able to buy anything smaller than an Edge in the near future, let alone an actual CAR (like even the current regular 'Stang).

 

[scooter123]

So far I haven't seen anyone suggesting a higher capacity RADIATOR. FYI a cooler thermostat only provides a cooler engine if it is working with a radiator with enough cooling capacity. Back in the 1970's step one for building a high output engine that was reliable was to install a larger radiator. I knew one guy who used to prowl junkyards looking for radiators out of Semi Tractor trucks. With a bit of work you could have a custom fitted radiator that had just about double the cooling capacity of a regular car radiator. Now we have it easy, we can just go to Mountune and order up a ready made radiator with plenty of cooling capacity.

BTW, the driving force for pointing this out is a total of 3 engines blown due to "head gasket" issues. 90% of all head gasket problems have overheating as the trigger for the failure. If you want to stop blowing up engines make sure you have a radiator that provides a healthy reserve of excess cooling capacity. Because engines that are run hard do generate more heat than one driven gently.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^ABSOLUTELY!

I just took for granted that daloonie already HAD an aftermarket radiator installed, and was STILL experiencing overheating problems anyway, but re-reading the first post in this thread, it appears that he only has the lower temp thermostat to try and control coolant temps.

SO YES, even in his mild to cool climate most of the year, an aftermarket radiator is a MUST for daloonie if he is going to run a bigger aftermarket snail hard, even on a mild/'safe' tune.

 

[Intuit]

N/A SOHC, discovered the hard way that long term consequences of running too cold are a clogged cat. The additional heat also helps high performance engines clean themselves up. I suspect this was another way to help limit the carbon build-up on the backs of the intake valves for this GTDI engine.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

N/A SOHC, discovered the hard way that long term consequences of running too cold are a clogged cat. The additional heat also helps high performance engines clean themselves up. I suspect this was another way to help limit the carbon build-up on the backs of the intake valves for this GTDI engine.

Especially with vehicles that don't get wrung out in high RPMs that often....I daily take mine to 1 Hundo coming off the clover leaf on the way to work. Its to hard to resist!