Stock radiator is just awful.

[M-Sport fan]

^^^I never said that the pure bone stock people who have had (and do currently have) overheating problems were imagining them!

I am SURE that it is real, and happens often, but yes, luckily for me (where's that wood to knock on?) not yet in my case.

My post above is NOT given as any excuse, or reason for our cars to overheat, just a perplexed question as to HOW they do not overheat with a big aluminum, semi-permeable wall fully blocking the front of ANY radiator, that's all.

Post up that Caterham (or whatever you are basing it on) build, that thing sounds insane!

 

[Dpro]

My FiST was mechanically BONE stock when the issues started. I don't think that normal urban driving without boiling over is expecting too much. The problem is widespread on many stock Fiesta ST's. If you didn't have any problem, yay for you. But some people fried their engines or wrecked the cylinder head.
It stopped me dead in my tracks from putting one more nickle into the car. I have pivoted to building a Lotus 7 type sportscar. I think a 12k totally impractical but track capable car is a better deal than a 21k hot hatch that requires 10+ grand in upgrades just to be marginally more reliable and slightly quicker is not a good value proposition. But the Fist is still a fun ride. I like it.

A few words, First 10k to make the car reliable? You need to put down the crack pipe.

lol jokes aside man seriously a $500 radiator upgrade makes the car more reliable. not $10k and oh make it faster and I mean a lot faster costs around $2k with tune with a turbo upgrade.
That will make the car more than slightly quicker it will change it by several seconds. You cannot get around the math 300whp in a 2750lb car gives you sportbike acceleration and speeds. First hand experience with this as well.

In fact you can set the whole car up to perform insanely for around 5-6k max . Obviously since you have not done you really do not know as you yourself bailed and went a different direction out of fear.

Thats fine the car stock is freakin blast for $500 for a radiator and $300 -400 for a bigger intercooler and around $500 for an AP and a tune. Its a total blast.
You do not need to go farther unles you just wish too. Yet it will not take 10k

P.S. I am glad you are happy with your Super 7 Interesting but if I was gonna go down the open cockpit road I would get an Ariel Atom over a Super 7 every day of the week.

Oh and most of us bought FiST’s to pull double duty not be a impractical one off.

 

[powermatt]

My FiST was mechanically BONE stock when the issues started. I don't think that normal urban driving without boiling over is expecting too much. The problem is widespread on many stock Fiesta ST's. If you didn't have any problem, yay for you. But some people fried their engines or wrecked the cylinder head.
It stopped me dead in my tracks from putting one more nickle into the car. I have pivoted to building a Lotus 7 type sportscar. I think a 12k totally impractical but track capable car is a better deal than a 21k hot hatch that requires 10+ grand in upgrades just to be marginally more reliable and slightly quicker is not a good value proposition. But the Fist is still a fun ride. I like it.

Please don't ever make a claim like this without the numbers to back it up. Keep in mind forums like this are amplifiers for issues. There are plenty of FiST owners that never post here.

I'd argue if your move was to a Lotus, the Fiesta ST probably wasn't the right car for you to begin with. Nothing wrong with that. It's a fun car, but it makes compromises to also be a practical and relatively inexpensive car. A Super 7 definitely isn't making any concessions to practicality.

 

[gtx3076]

Please don't ever make a claim like this without the numbers to back it up. Keep in mind forums like this are amplifiers for issues. There are plenty of FiST owners that never post here.

I'd argue if your move was to a Lotus, the Fiesta ST probably wasn't the right car for you to begin with. Nothing wrong with that. It's a fun car, but it makes compromises to also be a practical and relatively inexpensive car. A Super 7 definitely isn't making any concessions to practicality.

Was reading 101*. Coolant temps mostly stayed at 190* but this picture was taken after about 40 minutes of driving.

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[jmrtsus]

My FiST was mechanically BONE stock when the issues started. I don't think that normal urban driving without boiling over is expecting too much. The problem is widespread on many stock Fiesta ST's. If you didn't have any problem, yay for you. But some people fried their engines or wrecked the cylinder head.
It stopped me dead in my tracks from putting one more nickle into the car. I have pivoted to building a Lotus 7 type sportscar. I think a 12k totally impractical but track capable car is a better deal than a 21k hot hatch that requires 10+ grand in upgrades just to be marginally more reliable and slightly quicker is not a good value proposition. But the Fist is still a fun ride. I like it.

Your post confuses the hell out of me. If you are going to badmouth a car, back it up. Please share where you have seen data on stock ST's "widespread" radiator problems? I cannot find any data backing that statement on the internet. "The problem is widespread on many stock Fiesta ST's." Nothing on J.D Powers or Consumer Reports and the only reliability hits for the Fiesta's period are the crappy tranny's on most Fiesta's, does not mention the ST radiators just the early recalls. Almost all info I find on the net is from the 2 ST Forums.......and mostly by modded cars. So please help us out....where are you reading this? And "requires" 10+K to make it reliable......LOL! Mine is slightly quicker for $1K .........and reliability has been outstanding. Tell us about the people that "fried" engines or "wrecked" their cylinder heads on a stock ST please. All the reports I read have cars going it to the "limp" mode not destructing. I guess the ones you are talking about also had failures with factory limp mode processes. All parts have failures and some defective radiators can be expected........but your hyperbole is showing you bought the wrong car. The stock radiator was designed to provide cooling for a car with less than 200 HP...works fine with my 215 HP. Did you expect Ford to spend money to cover increased HP from mods over 215? That is all they warrant the radiator for is the MP215 mod to 215 HP. That is why many of us did the MP215, is was obvious Ford was not going to warrant the stock parts for over that power level. Over that you are on your own like any car with illegal tunes. What car company will spec parts for the HP increases of mods out of their control...they won't. Your expectations of the FiST, the most affordable performance car out there is silly. My son builds Hi-Po LS engines. He will not install one over 450 HP without upgrading the cooling system, plain common sense. He is warranting his engine and he expects the buyer to have enough sense to follow his instructions and upgrade the cooling if they do their own install, if not he will not warrant the engine. What did the dealer do about your cooling problems for the first 36K miles? Did Ford change your radiator? Apparently this car mag I have been reading for over 40 years knows nothing about the "widespread" radiator issue either. A quote from Road and Track on 9/29/18.........
"The Ford Fiesta ST Is the Perfect Used Performance Car
It doesn't quite check all the boxes, but if you're looking for something fun, reliable, and inexpensive, the Fiesta ST is the car for you." (my bold on the reliable)

From Whatcar.com 2013-2017 ST's

"Is a used Ford Fiesta ST hatchback reliable?
Reported problems are few, and owners on the whole only have good things to say." (my bold)

Sound like a car with cooling problems to you? I think you are making the right move to build a car to your needs instead of starting with an inexpensive 4 door compact car and modding it for track use. When you are finished tell us how much your "$12K" car actually would cost to buy ready to run with a warranty. Oh, never mind you don't get a ready to run car with a warranty or legal to drive on the streets for $12K. Again you bought the wrong car in the FiST. Badmouth your decision not the car. Sorry, the data does not support your claims.

 

[Ford ST]

I've been here for 3 years I've seen enough post of car overheats to say the radiator is definitely a weak point.
Anytime someone has a issue with their car I read it every single post for 3 years. I don't have a Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. I have seen overheats, cracked cylinder heads, broken coolant lines there was actually a recall on that. They updated the coolant lines because one of the coolant lines was a hard piece of plastic and it would break. There are multiple post on this site about that, and about the TSB/ recall to get it fixed depending on what your build date was. That recall also involved having a sensor installed to tell you if your coolant level was low.

Our friend Dan or as I like to call him the headlight guru, or the LED guy talked about this quite a bit.


If you have a car and you drive the hell out of it in a hot environment and it overheats there's a problem. If you get stuck in stop-and-go traffic for hours in a hot environment and it overheats you have a problem.

It's a weak point. The radiator is bare minimum. Honda had issues with overheats on the type r when driven on the track. Did Honda say you shouldn't drive it on a track nope they fixed it.


The earlier 1.6 EcoBoost engines did have issues with overheats to the point vehicles were catching on fire. There was a recall on that now it wasn't because of the radiator. The cylinder head would crack and leak oil on the exhaust manifold.

I will never understand why people can't say hey there are issues, but nope can't do that.

Some of y'all need to chill and stop getting so butthurt because someone criticizes a vehicle.







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[powermatt]

There are very, very few cars that can be driven hard in a hot environment and not have coolant/oil temp issues. Carmakers design cooling to handle most driving scenarios. Very few are designing for hardcore canyon carving or track use, and almost none offer these solutions standard (ex: Mustang performance pack 1/2). This is not an issue, this is normal.

Overheating in traffic is not something I've seen many reports of. Overheating going uphill in boost? Yeah, that I've seen a few reports of. Again, though, this is anecdotal evidence from an enthusiast forum where we tend to air our grievances much more loudly and more often.

 

[Ford ST]

There are very, very few cars that can be driven hard in a hot environment and not have coolant/oil temp issues. Carmakers design cooling to handle most driving scenarios. Very few are designing for hardcore canyon carving or track use, and almost none offer these solutions standard (ex: Mustang performance pack 1/2). This is not an issue, this is normal.

Overheating in traffic is not something I've seen many reports of. Overheating going uphill in boost? Yeah, that I've seen a few reports of. Again, though, this is anecdotal evidence from an enthusiast forum where we tend to air our grievances much more loudly and more often.

We can just agree to disagree we see this very differently.


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[powermatt]

We can just agree to disagree we see this very differently.


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I'm just trying to figure out what the basis for this assertion is. There are cars out there that can take hardcore driving, but they all tend to be much more expensive performance-oriented cars. Though even cars like the GT350 have their issues with heat (power steering in its case). The Fiesta ST was a $25k car new at MSRP loaded with every option. You're just not going to get the same level of performance hardening as something more serious. Mainly because Ford knows a lot of owners will never drive it that hard, and also because they know those that do will just upgrade the radiator anyway. This is just basic corporate thinking: why spend more money to harden the car for 10% of drivers?

As for reports on this forum... I don't know how I can really put that any clearer: this forum is not representative of all Fiesta ST owners or experiences. Enthusiasts like us live in a confirmation bias bubble, but there are tons of owners out there that keep their cars stock and don't even know this forum exists.

 

[TDavis]

I was pleased to find out my Mountune rad kept my temps at around 209-211 degrees while on the track at Heartland with an ambient temp of 95 degrees.

 

[The Cuzi]

Was reading 101*. Coolant temps mostly stayed at 190* but this picture was taken after about 40 minutes of driving.

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It is always fun seeing what people monitor.

 

[The Cuzi]

There are very, very few cars that can be driven hard in a hot environment and not have coolant/oil temp issues. Carmakers design cooling to handle most driving scenarios. Very few are designing for hardcore canyon carving or track use, and almost none offer these solutions standard (ex: Mustang performance pack 1/2). This is not an issue, this is normal.

Overheating in traffic is not something I've seen many reports of. Overheating going uphill in boost? Yeah, that I've seen a few reports of. Again, though, this is anecdotal evidence from an enthusiast forum where we tend to air our grievances much more loudly and more often.

Sadly, I am one of those who have overheated from traffic alone. Most folks think of traffic and still think of a vehicle that is moving. I spend most of my days in near gridlock traffic. With little movement, there isn't much airflow through the intercooler or radiator. Ambients in the 90-100s and pavement maybe +20/30 above that with no airflow is, or I should say was, a recipe for sadness.

 

[powermatt]

Sadly, I am one of those who have overheated from traffic alone. Most folks think of traffic and still think of a vehicle that is moving. I spend most of my days in near gridlock traffic. With little movement, there isn't much airflow through the intercooler or radiator. Ambients in the 90-100s and pavement maybe +20/30 above that with no airflow is a recipe for sadness.

In scenarios like that, I think you're going to see a lot of cars struggling. It's not just the ambient temp and the heat radiating from the pavement, it's also all the radiant heat from the cars around you.

What I found with the stock radiator is that while it's very good at shedding heat quickly, there's an upper limit for how much continuous heat generation it can shed. Low core capacity combined with the single fan... thermodynamics dictate that limit. I don't know why some cases seem to trigger it and others don't, but complete gridlock in 90+ degree heat would definitely be an extreme case example.

 

[The Cuzi]

In scenarios like that, I think you're going to see a lot of cars struggling. It's not just the ambient temp and the heat radiating from the pavement, it's also all the radiant heat from the cars around you.

What I found with the stock radiator is that while it's very good at shedding heat quickly, there's an upper limit for how much continuous heat generation it can shed. Low core capacity combined with the single fan... thermodynamics dictate that limit. I don't know why some cases seem to trigger it and others don't, but complete gridlock in 90+ degree heat would definitely be an extreme case example.

Agreed and observed. When I overheated I was seeing one or two other cars per day overheated. However, the cars that were on the side of the road also looked like they were not well maintained. That being said, my particular drive is a rough go of it. I've overheated an MV Agusta, Buell, Honda S2K, and a Pro-4X Frontier on this route over the past few years. Of all, the FiST did the best, but still succame to the runaway heat you mentioned.

 

[Capri to ST]

I thought I had seen a reference to the stock radiator being enlarged somewhere along the way, but I double checked and my 2016 and a 2019 FiST have the same part number on Tasca parts. I assume that if they changed the radiator they would also change the part number, maybe one of the parts people on here can confirm.
I have also not had a problem with overheating, and I drive it somewhat hard in the hot weather here in North Carolina. However, I'm not usually sitting in traffic for a long time. I've only driven it a few times in traffic on extremely hot days, close to a hundred degrees with of course the A/C on, and the car did not overheat, the temperature gauge stayed right at the place that it usually does. My engine is stock except for the Mountune MP215 tune.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Sadly, I am one of those who have overheated from traffic alone. Most folks think of traffic and still think of a vehicle that is moving. I spend most of my days in near gridlock traffic. With little movement, there isn't much airflow through the intercooler or radiator. Ambients in the 90-100s and pavement maybe +20/30 above that with no airflow is, or I should say was, a recipe for sadness.

^^^My strongest argument for a high speed fan over-ride switch (like I had on my Z28), that does NOT rely on a tuner programming a lower turn-on point into a tune for this to happen (REGARDLESS OF the radiator in use)!!!

WHY does this not exist for our cars, is it just not possible with our heavily 'nannyized' ECMs, or what?!?!

 

[powermatt]

I thought I had seen a reference to the stock radiator being enlarged somewhere along the way, but I double checked and my 2016 and a 2019 FiST have the same part number on Tasca parts. I assume that if they changed the radiator they would also change the part number, maybe one of the parts people on here can confirm.
I have also not had a problem with overheating, and I drive it somewhat hard in the hot weather here in North Carolina. However, I'm not usually sitting in traffic for a long time. I've only driven it a few times in traffic on extremely hot days, close to a hundred degrees with of course the A/C on, and the car did not overheat, the temperature gauge stayed right at the place that it usually does. My engine is stock except for the Mountune MP215 tune.

Yeah, if they had revised it and it fit in the same space with no issues, they would just stop making the old part. Plenty examples of that in the auto industry.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'd argue if your move was to a Lotus, the Fiesta ST probably wasn't the right car for you to begin with. Nothing wrong with that. It's a fun car, but it makes compromises to also be a practical and relatively inexpensive car. A Super 7 definitely isn't making any concessions to practicality.

I would argue that ANY Lotus and the word 'practical' should never be used in the very same BOOK, let alone sentence.
A basically open cockpit/open wheel one (albeit technically still street legal and driveable), even much less so (and the very same can be said for the Atoms and Exocets, etc.).

At that point, and it being a 99% pure track car, I'd rather just get a used FORMULA car, and have the REAL DEAL already.

 

[powermatt]

I would argue that ANY Lotus and the word 'practical' should never be used in the very same BOOK, let alone sentence.
A basically open cockpit/open wheel one (albeit technically still street legal and driveable), even much less so (and the very same can be said for the Atoms and Exocets, etc.).

At that point, and it being a 99% pure track car, I'd rather just get a used FORMULA car, and have the REAL DEAL already.

I mean, I wouldn't mind daily driving an Evora S. Though it would probably be in a tight race with my ND for which is the least practical.

 

[Ford ST]

I thought I had seen a reference to the stock radiator being enlarged somewhere along the way, but I double checked and my 2016 and a 2019 FiST have the same part number on Tasca parts. I assume that if they changed the radiator they would also change the part number, maybe one of the parts people on here can confirm.
I have also not had a problem with overheating, and I drive it somewhat hard in the hot weather here in North Carolina. However, I'm not usually sitting in traffic for a long time. I've only driven it a few times in traffic on extremely hot days, close to a hundred degrees with of course the A/C on, and the car did not overheat, the temperature gauge stayed right at the place that it usually does. My engine is stock except for the Mountune MP215 tune.

I remember that post but we debunked it.
Unfortunately they did not upgrade it.

I have ordered many OEM parts from Ford and they definitely do change their part numbers.

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