Poll: Which car is more groundbreaking/special/unique?

[jeff]

Ok hey folks, I need an unbiased, cruel, mean, honest, informed, opinionated poll/conversation here. My neighbor, who I talk with frequently, is a car enthusiast. He has a 1988 Fiero GT. The Fiero is nice. I've always loved Fieros. But I have no interest in them. But I do respect them.

I just bought a 2001 Honda Insight as a restoration project. Maybe you saw my thread. Not for everyone, but it's a car that got my interest and now I'm enjoying restoring it.

Back to my Fiero neighbor. We're having some friendly banter about which car is actually more groundbreaking/special/unique. Would you weigh in? Obviously he thinks the Fiero is and I think the Insight is. I'm curious as to other opinions on these rare, strange, and very different niche cars.

Take the poll, and leave me some commentary. Thanks!

1988 PONTIAC FIERO GT (or really any Fiero)
+ mid engine V6 (4 available on lower trims)
+ killed off too soon, just as it was getting good
+ two seater
+ composite panels
+ performed well for its time
+ very beautiful car

VS

2001 HONDA INSIGHT (or really any Gen 1 Insight)
+ first hybrid ever made, and available with 5 speed too
+ market failure
+ best MPG (70 hwy) and drag coefficient of all time (until recent, I think a Tesla tied it 0.25)
+ ugly, beautiful, certainly strange
+ two seater
+ composite panels/all aluminum and plastic

 

[Rexracer]

Growing up I always wanted a Fiero, as the poor mans Ferrari. But as I got older, and the more I learned about them, the more I turned away. From my understanding, the FIero used the Chevy Chevette front suspension... so instead of a performance based mid engine performance car, you got the cool looks... and thats it.

There is a Fiero club that comes to the autocross's, and watching them go around, even the heavily modified ones, its terrible. Combine all that with Chevy's legindarily crappy build quality of the era and its a non-starter for me.

So from a ground breaking standpoint, the Insight gets my vote.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The Fiero is 'ground-breaking' in that a USDM manufacturer actually DARED to try to build a mid-engined car at all, regardless of it's performance and/or quality (or total lack thereof).
Style wise, the only thing that was off-putting to me about the car is the ridiculous front overhang, but I'm guessing that was necessary to get that full 'aero wedge' shape they were going for.

 

[powermatt]

A well sorted Fiero is actually a really fun car to drive. Small, lightweight, mid engine. That engine isn't anything special, but it didn't have much weight to move around. A car like it had no business coming out of the US at the time, but it did.

The Insight is very cool, but I think it's also the kind of weird thing we expected from a Japanese car maker.

 

[flbchbm]

groundbreaking
other than CAR-B-Qing itself, hands down the Fiero. Look at the decades they each were in...the Insight was expected, not the Fiero.

First 2 seat Pontiac since 1938, mid-engine, composite panels, headrest speakers, 4 wheel independent suspension, the rear was actually the X platform's front, etc. The warring with GM to kill the tiny-budgeted car. HUGE back story on that one folks. Just like GM and the EV1...

 

[MagnetiseST]

I'm gonna have to say the Insight. If Honda had called it something else like the CRH or CRX Hybrid, it probably would've sold better. Perhaps offered a sport version. One of the first manual transmission hybrid vehicles, who cares that it wasn't fast it was extremely innovative. Plus it really speaks to what Honda is capable of, this and the S2000 came out around the same time and showcased Hondas ability to do ANYTHING. Superb performance? S2000. Superb value and fuel economy? Insight.

The Fiero was a failed attempt to make an American car something that it isn't. It wasn't developed long enough, it lights itself on fire and generally they aren't fantastic cars. Cool theory, but the MR2 was around at the same time and the much better car.

 

[SteveS]

In terms of true automotive innovation, I'd say the Insight for the hybrid powertrain.

The creation of a mid engine sports car by turning an economy car engine/transaxle around and putting it over the rear wheels was ground broken by Lotus with the Europa and refined by Fiat with the transverse engine X1/9. So though the Fiero was groundbreaking for American manufacturers, in purely automotive terms, it can't match the first hybrid.

 

[joesiris]

since you ask which is more groundbreaking id have to say the insight as well, had you asked which was cooler of course the fiero, but look at the era the insight help to establish. it itself might not have lasted that long but the hybrid is here to stay. and while its not going to win any beauty contests, its just corky enough to be cool looking. I always liked fieros tho, mostly because, if you recall back in the day it was a common car used for the base of many kit cars. I do find it interesting that you chose an insight as a project car, its out of the norm and that to me is great.

 

[Fraybie]

As noted previously, the Fiero followed an existing template of creating a budget mid-engine car by taking a transverse front wheel drive powertrain and flipping it around and shoving it in the back (middle). Since that template was already well established during the Fiero's development process, the car is really only notable in being one in a long and proud GM tradition of half-assing a car to market, incrementally improving it, and then killing it once it becomes what it should have been in the first place.

While the Insight *isn't* the first modern gas-electric hybrid (the Prius was introduced in 1997 in Japan), both the Prius and the Insight popularized the idea of an electric motor sandwiched between the engine and transmission, and given the years-long lead time for designing and manufacturing a car, it's safe to say they were equally "first" relative to the rest of the industry.

So...Insight?

Fun fact! Google the *first* gas-electric hybrid! Spoiler alert: It's a Porsche

 

[GotVic]

Been a while, so feel free to fact check me. But I think the Fiero started off with Chevette front suspension and Citation fwd setup moved to the rear. It wasn't until the last year or so when the car got a redesigned suspension that it became pretty decent for its day. It was still a pretty big deal when it came out.

I'm going to say Insight because of the hybrid tech. Otherwise, it's really just an aerodynamic successor to the CRX.

It's a good comparison though, because you could make a strong argument either way.

An LS-swapped late Fiero with an IMSA widebody would be pretty cool.

 

[SteveS]

Fun fact! Google the *first* gas-electric hybrid! Spoiler alert: It's a Porsche

Wasn't that an electric that charged with the gas?

 

[4DGC]

I'm gonna have to go with the Insight for groundbreaking. There had been hybrids in limited test type environments and you could lease but not buy an EV1 from GM previously, but Honda (and Toyota) stuck their necks out and created real, production vehicles on hybrid platforms for the 1st time in the mass market. Big balls shown here by these guys.

The Fiero was a cool idea and had potential but corporate BS meant it couldn't do anything to challenge the Corvette's performance (cough) and thus was saddled with the terrible "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder from the beginning. It was put together on a shoe string budget and had to borrow heavily from the corporate parts bin to even exist. Somehow it still managed make it to production and look good doing it. I have respect for the engineers that did everything they could to make a great little underdog car but unfortunately the corporate machine didn't see enough profit in a niche product and killed it just as it started to show some real potential with a V6 and to my eye, better updated styling. I still think the last ones look good.

 

[jeff]

This is great. So great that I asked my neighbor if I could shoot a vid comparing the two, and he's game. So within a week I'll post that here.

But the poll is so close, I had to update the Fiero picture so things don't get out of hand.

Keep 'em coming!!!

 

[scooter123]

I looked at the Fiero back in 1985, even took one for a test drive. That 2 seat interior was claustrophobic for this 5'10" male, get up and go was a yawn, and in handling it was at best distinctly mediocre with a fair amount of bump steer over railroad crossing or potholes. What I ended up purchasing was a Monte Carlo SS and that choice was such a perfect fit I still have it, except now has twice the HP it had when new.

 

[PunkST]

Id perfer the fiero over the insight. Especially if you drop the gm powertrain for something hilarious. ( k series?? Ecoboost?? )

 

[M-Sport fan]

Id perfer the fiero over the insight. Especially if you drop the gm powertrain for something hilarious. ( k series?? Ecoboost?? )

Hilarious would be a built LS7 or the like.

 

[PunkST]

Hilarious would be a built LS7 or the like.

Overdone. And a cooling nightmare. Too many ls swaps. Go rotary. That would be hilarious.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Overdone. And a cooling nightmare. Too many ls swaps. Go rotary. That would be hilarious.

True on the way too overdone thing, but I just meant that the reliable, fairly lightweight, no need for boost, power levels would make it hilarious, not the actual model of the swap.
I personally cannot stand the sound of rotaries with fairly open exhaust systems.

 

[PunkST]

There would be plenty of room for exhaust with the rotary. And super easy to fab up. I prefer using small engines with turbos. Just never really into the whole v8 thing. Idk.

 

[M-Sport fan]

If I were going to stick to a small bore, boosted 4 banger, it would be the very same thing I would put in the back of a current Lotus Elise/Exige to replace the Toy lump they come with (if I could ever own one); a 2.1 liter, rallycross evolution Cossie BDT, good for 650+ to the wheels.