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Bosch Uprated Injectors
- Thread starter Sean32
- Start date
Adam @ Tune+. He doesn't need to come in here and re-hash what he posts on facebook groups and posts, but he can if he wants.
Aux fuel doesn't use the factory ECU in any capacity. Its a wholly separate stand alone. Anytime fuel type changes, it needs to be flashed. Turning off your aux fuel for a road trip? needs to be flashed or disabled. You're buying it for reliability and valve cleaning? Well have fun when the fuel pools up on the closed valves, it fires all four injectors at the same time not individually per cylinder.
There is a lot you add with aux fuel that can go wrong and I'd really rather just have a bolt in option.
Aux fuel doesn't use the factory ECU in any capacity. Its a wholly separate stand alone. Anytime fuel type changes, it needs to be flashed. Turning off your aux fuel for a road trip? needs to be flashed or disabled. You're buying it for reliability and valve cleaning? Well have fun when the fuel pools up on the closed valves, it fires all four injectors at the same time not individually per cylinder.
There is a lot you add with aux fuel that can go wrong and I'd really rather just have a bolt in option.
No this is INCORRECT as the larger injectors will exhaust the OEM fuel pump. As I was told by a very reliable source there are two drawbacks to this system its highly Dependent on RPM and the quantity pumped from every stroke. You can only improve the quantity pumped with the addition of a new pump....unless you make a custom cam that has 4 lobes for the DI HPFP fuel pump.
Last edited:
No this is INCORRECT as the larger injectors will exhaust the OEM fuel pump. As I was told by a very reliable source there are two drawbacks to this system its highly Dependent on RPM and the quantity pumped from every stroke. You can only improve the quantity pumped with the addition of a new pump....unless you make a custom cam that has 4 lobes for the DI HPFP fuel pump.
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That's why he is Adam is only Running E40*...everyone will figure it out. Its always about the dollars in the end.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
First post from Adam's FB page...
𝘄𝘄𝘄.𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗲𝗽𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰.𝗰𝗼𝗺
𝐁𝐚𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 #trashfiesta 𝐢𝐬 𝐝𝐨𝐧𝐞. 𝐏𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐛𝐞𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐥𝐨𝐨𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐝𝐲𝐧𝐨𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐡!
The point of these baselines are to test a few new things I have been developing with the stock fuel system. This is all in the ECU and requires ZERO hardware changes. This is something I have been wanting to try for awhile that is only applying to the Fiesta ST, other vehicles we support do not have the same ability to run these changes.
I wanted to test a few theories of mine on our own personal vehicle before applying them to any customer's vehicles. It took awhile because of Covid-19 but now things are starting to open back up I can get to work.
On the graph you see two power numbers (First picture):
𝟯𝟮𝟵.𝟲𝟲𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟲𝟭.𝟯𝟯𝘄𝘁𝗾 - 𝗚𝗿𝗮𝗽𝗵𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗕𝗹𝘂𝗲 - 𝟮𝟲.𝟱𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗧𝗮𝗿𝗴𝗲𝘁
This is what the car made with our new tuning changes while still being able to hold a conservative AFR. On E40 and a bigger turbo with turbine backpressure and an appropriate exhaust side, we target around 12.2-12.5:1 AFR on GDI engines. On this pull the AFR was flat through the the entire pull and only trended up as the throttle was starting to close in preparation for the rev limiter. (Second picture)
𝟯𝟱𝟬.𝟰𝟵𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟱𝟯.𝟰𝟰𝘄𝘁𝗾 - 𝗚𝗿𝗮𝗽𝗵𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗚𝗿𝗲𝗲𝗻 - 𝟮𝟴𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗧𝗮𝗿𝗴𝗲𝘁
𝑳𝑬𝑨𝑵 𝑻𝑬𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑵𝑮
This is what the car made with the same changes but with another 1.5psi of boost (averaged), and a slightly more aggressive AFR target of 13.25:1. The power gain is from the added boost, the more aggressive AFR target was just to see how the car responded and allows us to extend the fuel system out a little further. (Third picture)
I have been doing some "lean" testing with an OEM manufacturer (Sorry I can't release whom, I am under an NDA and can't share) where we are running GDI turbocharged engines at near 1.0 Lambda (~14.7AFR) under full load with standard fuels and alternative fuels. The quest for the highest MPG from a vehicle/engine combination is top priority for a lot of OEM's now. As MPG sells cars, and they are being forced to have a whole line of vehicles that abide by an industry standard MPG set by EPA in the future.
The engines I have been working with are all low displacement 3 and 4 cylinders. From 1.0L all the way up to 1.8L, some even have electric assist. Super cool stuff. They are wanting 200hp minimum from just the gas side on some of their engines with over 50mpg!
Circling back around on why this matters, I have been applying some of this testing to what I do everyday, on our own vehicles. We are obviously seeing the results here on the Fiesta ST, but before I start to roll this out on customers vehicles I have to set the car up with a lot more sensors and loggers for data collection. Because I don't really care if this engine melts to the ground I decided to give a shot before we upgrade the fuel system. The results were good, and the car handled it no problem.
The Fiesta doesn't have what it takes to sustain extreme lean conditions near 14:1AFR but 12.5-13.0:1 AFR will likely not be out of the question with a little more ethanol and our fuel system upgrades, which is coming next.
Another point of this dyno testing was to get some numbers for the Turbo Technics S280 turbo upgrade. A lot have seen my tech video on this turbo, and the install videos I did, but we are just now getting around to actually testing it out.
The turbo is doing extremely well. Seeing 28psi by 3500rpm and holding strong all the way to redline. This is even with the stock actuator the turbo ships with, not bad. Being that we saw a 20hp increase with just 1.5psi with zero timing changes between the 330whp and 350whp run. I think this turbo has a solid 380whp in it with the fuel system changes, a little more ethanol, some more timing, and sprinkle in a little more boost. That is some good power for a turbo so responsive and is still 100% bolt-on.
Below are the current modifications on the car for the testing that was already completed, and then below that are the changes we are going to make for next Tuesday.
𝗠𝗼𝗱𝗶𝗳𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀:
-TunePlus, Inc E40 Tune w/ Accessport
-TunePlus, Inc Titanium Catback
-S280 w/ max preload on stock actuator
-Whoosh Downpipe & Hangers
-Whoosh Boost Hoses w/ Clamps
-Whoosh Crossover Pipe
-Whoosh Symposer Delete
-Whoosh Silicone “S” thingy
-MAPerformance Intercooler
-ITG intake
-Go Fast Bits DV+ VTA
-CoolerWorx Shifter
𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗲𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗻𝗲𝘅𝘁 𝘄𝗲𝗲𝗸𝘀 𝘁𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴:
- Bosch 30% Injectors
- XDI Fuel Pump
- TunePlus, Inc 5 Bar MAP Sensor Kit
- Turbosmart Actuator Upgrade (14psi)
𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀:
Uwe Ostmann
at
Xtreme-DI LLC
Ron Miller
at
Whoosh Motorsports
COBB Tuning
𝘄𝘄𝘄.𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗲𝗽𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰.𝗰𝗼𝗺
𝐁𝐚𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 #trashfiesta 𝐢𝐬 𝐝𝐨𝐧𝐞. 𝐏𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐛𝐞𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐥𝐨𝐨𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐝𝐲𝐧𝐨𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐡!
The point of these baselines are to test a few new things I have been developing with the stock fuel system. This is all in the ECU and requires ZERO hardware changes. This is something I have been wanting to try for awhile that is only applying to the Fiesta ST, other vehicles we support do not have the same ability to run these changes.
I wanted to test a few theories of mine on our own personal vehicle before applying them to any customer's vehicles. It took awhile because of Covid-19 but now things are starting to open back up I can get to work.
On the graph you see two power numbers (First picture):
𝟯𝟮𝟵.𝟲𝟲𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟲𝟭.𝟯𝟯𝘄𝘁𝗾 - 𝗚𝗿𝗮𝗽𝗵𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗕𝗹𝘂𝗲 - 𝟮𝟲.𝟱𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗧𝗮𝗿𝗴𝗲𝘁
This is what the car made with our new tuning changes while still being able to hold a conservative AFR. On E40 and a bigger turbo with turbine backpressure and an appropriate exhaust side, we target around 12.2-12.5:1 AFR on GDI engines. On this pull the AFR was flat through the the entire pull and only trended up as the throttle was starting to close in preparation for the rev limiter. (Second picture)
𝟯𝟱𝟬.𝟰𝟵𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟱𝟯.𝟰𝟰𝘄𝘁𝗾 - 𝗚𝗿𝗮𝗽𝗵𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗚𝗿𝗲𝗲𝗻 - 𝟮𝟴𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗧𝗮𝗿𝗴𝗲𝘁
𝑳𝑬𝑨𝑵 𝑻𝑬𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑵𝑮
This is what the car made with the same changes but with another 1.5psi of boost (averaged), and a slightly more aggressive AFR target of 13.25:1. The power gain is from the added boost, the more aggressive AFR target was just to see how the car responded and allows us to extend the fuel system out a little further. (Third picture)
I have been doing some "lean" testing with an OEM manufacturer (Sorry I can't release whom, I am under an NDA and can't share) where we are running GDI turbocharged engines at near 1.0 Lambda (~14.7AFR) under full load with standard fuels and alternative fuels. The quest for the highest MPG from a vehicle/engine combination is top priority for a lot of OEM's now. As MPG sells cars, and they are being forced to have a whole line of vehicles that abide by an industry standard MPG set by EPA in the future.
The engines I have been working with are all low displacement 3 and 4 cylinders. From 1.0L all the way up to 1.8L, some even have electric assist. Super cool stuff. They are wanting 200hp minimum from just the gas side on some of their engines with over 50mpg!
Circling back around on why this matters, I have been applying some of this testing to what I do everyday, on our own vehicles. We are obviously seeing the results here on the Fiesta ST, but before I start to roll this out on customers vehicles I have to set the car up with a lot more sensors and loggers for data collection. Because I don't really care if this engine melts to the ground I decided to give a shot before we upgrade the fuel system. The results were good, and the car handled it no problem.
The Fiesta doesn't have what it takes to sustain extreme lean conditions near 14:1AFR but 12.5-13.0:1 AFR will likely not be out of the question with a little more ethanol and our fuel system upgrades, which is coming next.
Another point of this dyno testing was to get some numbers for the Turbo Technics S280 turbo upgrade. A lot have seen my tech video on this turbo, and the install videos I did, but we are just now getting around to actually testing it out.
The turbo is doing extremely well. Seeing 28psi by 3500rpm and holding strong all the way to redline. This is even with the stock actuator the turbo ships with, not bad. Being that we saw a 20hp increase with just 1.5psi with zero timing changes between the 330whp and 350whp run. I think this turbo has a solid 380whp in it with the fuel system changes, a little more ethanol, some more timing, and sprinkle in a little more boost. That is some good power for a turbo so responsive and is still 100% bolt-on.
Below are the current modifications on the car for the testing that was already completed, and then below that are the changes we are going to make for next Tuesday.
𝗠𝗼𝗱𝗶𝗳𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀:
-TunePlus, Inc E40 Tune w/ Accessport
-TunePlus, Inc Titanium Catback
-S280 w/ max preload on stock actuator
-Whoosh Downpipe & Hangers
-Whoosh Boost Hoses w/ Clamps
-Whoosh Crossover Pipe
-Whoosh Symposer Delete
-Whoosh Silicone “S” thingy
-MAPerformance Intercooler
-ITG intake
-Go Fast Bits DV+ VTA
-CoolerWorx Shifter
𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗲𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗻𝗲𝘅𝘁 𝘄𝗲𝗲𝗸𝘀 𝘁𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴:
- Bosch 30% Injectors
- XDI Fuel Pump
- TunePlus, Inc 5 Bar MAP Sensor Kit
- Turbosmart Actuator Upgrade (14psi)
𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀:
Uwe Ostmann
at
Xtreme-DI LLC
Ron Miller
at
Whoosh Motorsports
COBB Tuning
Attachments
2nd post...
𝘄𝘄𝘄.𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗲𝗽𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰.𝗰𝗼𝗺
𝗥𝗲𝘀𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗫𝗗𝗜 𝗣𝘂𝗺𝗽 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗕𝗼𝘀𝗰𝗵 𝟯𝟬% 𝗶𝗻𝗷𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗼𝗿𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝗮 𝗧𝘂𝗿𝗯𝗼 𝗧𝗲𝗰𝗵𝗻𝗶𝗰𝘀 𝗦𝟮𝟴𝟬 "𝗛𝘆𝗯𝗿𝗶𝗱".
If you haven't read the previous post I made on maxing out the stock fuel system on E40 please go to my profile and scroll down until you find it and have a read.
This post is going to cover the first part of testing with the
Xtreme-DI LLC
Upgraded HPFP and Bosch Motorsports +30% injectors.
Just so it is clear, here are the changes since the baseline testing from last week:
- XDI HPFP35 Upgraded High Pressure Fuel Pump
- Bosch Motorsports +30% Flow Injectors
- AEM 500psi MAP Sensor **
- Dizzy Tuning's MAP Sensor Adapter
- Turbosmart 14psi Wastegate Actuator
** The 500psi MAP sensor is what I had on hand, normally we would use a 5BAR map sensor but I didn't have any pigtails handy for our Motec 5BAR sensors so I had to improvise. Obviously this is OVERKILL but it got the job done. For customers that are looking to go over 29psi we will have 5BAR kits on hand. Still overkill but it's a quality sensor and that is more important.
The fuel remained E40 to keep testing consistent from the baseline. Unfortunately it needed a little bit more ethanol for this setup but I will get more into that later.
In addition to testing the new fuel setup we are also testing the Turbo Technics S280 and see what it's max capability is, and we found it. We had this thing SCREAMING and push it's to it's absolute limit to where it just wouldn't make anymore power even with increased boost pressure.
Dynograph below is comparing 100% stock fuel system max safe power, to the upgraded pump/injectors on the same turbo.
𝗦𝘁𝗼𝗰𝗸 𝗙𝘂𝗲𝗹 𝗦𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺:
𝟯𝟯𝟬𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟲𝟱𝘄𝘁𝗾 @ 𝟮𝟲.𝟱𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗛𝗼𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴
𝗫𝗗𝗜/𝗕𝗼𝘀𝗰𝗵 𝗙𝘂𝗲𝗹 𝗦𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺:
𝟰𝟬𝟬𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟵𝟬𝘄𝘁𝗾 @ 𝟮𝟴𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗿𝗶𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝟯𝟱𝗽𝘀𝗶
The reason why I decided to start at lower boost (28psi at 3500rpm) and linearly raise it up (35psi at 6500rpm) was to keep the torque down on the stock block while also keeping the clutch from slipping. We got up to 420wtq on one of the pulls and the clutch was struggling to hold the power.
I mentioned above that the car could have used some more ethanol for this setup. Reasoning being is that I was starting to see some knock in the upper RPM. So I had to bring timing down but raise the boost up to make the power. Likely the same power could of been had with a little more ethanol, 1-2* more of timing, and about 3-4psi less boost. But as I mentioned I wanted to keep the testing consistent so we stuck with E40.
Likely with better charge temps (We were seeing 110* on the dyno) and less humidity (it was 85% humidity last night), a little more ethanol, and some added timing. We could have hit the 410-420whp mark. Though that still means the turbo is well outside it's efficiency range.
𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐅𝐔𝐄𝐋 𝐒𝐘𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐌:
For clarity this is all being fueled by Direct Injection. There is 𝗡𝗢 𝗔𝗨𝗫 𝗙𝗨𝗘𝗟 on this vehicle. This is 100% being controlled through the factory fuel system.
The car met commanded fuel pressure without problem through entire testing last night. I have attached a picture below (second picture) showing the commanded pressure (blue line) and actual pressure (green line). We are raising the high pressure demand with RPM as the pump flows MORE fuel with MORE RPM. Commanding more pressure than you need at lower RPM can just cause stress on the on the injectors. You only need to use as much pressure as needed to stay on your AFR target. You can see in the third picture below AFR was on target (12.0:1 AFR) the entire pull within 2%.
So we definitely have plenty of pump, and the injectors seem to be handling the combo just fine. I do believe with a little more ethanol we would reach the max of the injectors at 400whp on E60ish. Can't really say that for sure without actually doing the testing on it but we are going to wait for our next turbo to get here before we push this fuel system a little further. The goal will be to make 370-380whp on straight E85 out of the pump just to see if the fuel system can handle it. Which means 90% of the customers out there will be able to run E85 straight out of the pump without having to mix on their Sub 400whp car.
Now, I see people asking "Why wouldn't I just run Aux Fuel / Port Injection. It's cheaper, and it cleans the valves". So here are a few points on why we are looking to take Direct Injection upgrades as far as possible on the platforms we support.
- This is a simple bolt on affair, no need to tap wires into your stock engine harness, and no fuel lines or hardware to install. You simply remove the stock components and install the new upgraded parts. I was able to install both the injectors and the pump in less than an hour.
- There aren't two systems that need to be tuned. When you add AUX Fuel/Port Injection you are trying to make two ECU's work together that don't talk to each other. They are completely separated.
- No need to flash the injector controller or disconnect/turn off when switching fuels. With a full DI system that can support your two different fuels you simply fill up with whatever fuel you like and map switch.
- Aux fueling (for now) is controlled by a system made in 1998 (Split Second). This is batch fire, and not a sequential system. So it does not spray when the valves are open they all just fire at the same time regardless if the valve is open or not. This causes "puddling" and changes the state of the fuel from an atomized state and enters your cylinder as a "shot" of fuel versus efficiently combining in the cylinder with the fuel from the DI side.
- We, as well as most tuners charge more for aux fuel tuning. If you do the pump/injector upgrade it is covered in our standard tuning rates, no additional cost.
- Carbon build up is less of a factor when you are running Ethanol. The only reason you would need to do a fuel system upgrade like this would be to run more ethanol. With ethanol there is virtually no carbon deposits to bake onto the back of the valves.
- This is getting us a step closer to being able to provide a full flex fuel capable system through the stock ECU. Meaning you will be able to fill up with any fuel between E10 and E85 and the ECU will compensate automatically without switching tunes. No ETA on this obviously as there is another party involved that needs to provide the ability but we will get there.
Do I still recommend Port Injection / Aux Fuel? Absolutely. I can't say that it doesn't work because we have proven that it does work all the way up to 700whp. However I recommend that the DI system be upgraded ALONG WITH aux fuel when the fuel demand for just the DI system can't be met. Allowing your engine to get the majority of it's fuel from the DI system allows you to rely on the port injection less, which means you fuel the engine "MO BETTA" and it's less stress on the fuel system overall.
𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐓𝐔𝐑𝐁𝐎:
The Turbo Technics S280 is by far the best bolt-on turbo upgrade for the Fiesta ST to date. If you are looking for quick spool and (realistically) a solid 370-380whp turbo then this is it. We were seeing 30psi at 3500rpm, no other turbo on the market has the fast of spool and still be 350whp+ capable.
Yes, I made 400whp, and there might of been another 10-15whp in it with some more ethanol and timing, but for the turbo size I don't see 35psi of boost sustainable. Based on the wheel size and the turbine shaft it will definitely put stress on the turbo. I could be wrong, it could last "FOR-EV-ER" [/Sandlot] but to keep the turbo and the stock engine happy lets call it 370whp as the mint area for this turbo.
If you're not looking to make that much power, it's still a solid choice because you aren't sacrificing spool or low end torque with this turbo. Say you just want a little bit over 300whp, you would only need 25psi to hit that mark and it hits 25psi at 3200RPM. The stock turbo hits 25psi at 3000-3100rpm, so virtually zero added lag.
So, if you want one. Myself and
Ron Miller
have them on our websites and you can order today! (Yea, I didn't use proper grammar order there but I do what I want
)
𝗪𝗛𝗔𝗧𝗦 𝗡𝗘𝗫𝗧?:
We do have some more fuel system changes to test along with some even bigger injectors to get us through the next 100whp (400-500whp). However we need to make some changes to the car itself.
- Clutch was slipping slightly on these last pulls with the big boy torque. So we are working on some single and twin disc clutches for the Fiesta ST. More information about this soon.
- The turbo is pretty much capped out and we aren't going to be able to continue through our next phase of testing with this turbo. So we have a Peron G-Series Turbo kit on the way for the car, and I will be pairing it with a G25-660 w/ .92 A/R turbocharger and that should get us through the foreseeable future in testing.
- I have a longblock en-route along with a transmission to launch our Engine and Transmission Program. Just like the Focus ST/RS and Ecoboost Mustang we will have a full Shortblock and Cylinder Head package available and likely a full turn key longblock for our customers to purchase.
The overall goal is 600whp. Yes, a lofty goal for the 1.6L but who is to say it will be a 1.6L it's whole life
. We have some things in the works, like we always do, but I have no doubt we will get there and who knows we might get there on 100% Direct Injection Fueling
.
𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐗𝐃𝐈 𝐏𝐮𝐦𝐩, 𝐈𝐧𝐣𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬, 𝐌𝐀𝐏 𝐒𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐨𝐫 𝐊𝐢𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐚𝐝𝐝𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐰𝐞𝐛𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐚𝐲 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐰𝐞 𝐟𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐳𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐧 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠. 𝐖𝐞 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐩𝐮𝐭 𝐭𝐨𝐠𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐚 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐩𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐚𝐠𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐛𝐮𝐲𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐨𝐠𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫.
*𝘘𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬 𝘕𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘴*
- 𝘋𝘺𝘯𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘢𝘱𝘩 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘸𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳. 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘵𝘤𝘩 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘴𝘭𝘪𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘵 2000𝘳𝘱𝘮. 𝘚𝘰 𝘐 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘩𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘩𝘢𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘳𝘰𝘭𝘭 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘬𝘦𝘦𝘱 𝘪𝘵 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘴𝘭𝘪𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨.
- 𝘚𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘵 5, 𝘴𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬 𝘪𝘴 𝘢𝘵 3. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘐 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘨𝘰𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘵𝘰 3, 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘳 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘴 .34𝘩𝘱, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘴 𝘪𝘵 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘵 𝘣𝘺 .25𝘩𝘱. 𝘔𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘮𝘢𝘭 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘐 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘥𝘥𝘭𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘴𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨. 𝘚𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘵 0 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘦𝘥 1𝘏𝘗 (401𝘸𝘩𝘱).
- 𝘜𝘯𝘤𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘯𝘶𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 387𝘸𝘩𝘱/380𝘸𝘵𝘲
Partners:
Uwe Ostmann
/
Xtreme-DI LLC
Ron Miller
/
Whoosh Motorsports
COBB Tuning
Shoutout to
Jason Chabza
/
Dizzy Tuning
for supplying the MAP sensor adapter.
𝘄𝘄𝘄.𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗲𝗽𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰.𝗰𝗼𝗺
𝗥𝗲𝘀𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗫𝗗𝗜 𝗣𝘂𝗺𝗽 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗕𝗼𝘀𝗰𝗵 𝟯𝟬% 𝗶𝗻𝗷𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗼𝗿𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝗮 𝗧𝘂𝗿𝗯𝗼 𝗧𝗲𝗰𝗵𝗻𝗶𝗰𝘀 𝗦𝟮𝟴𝟬 "𝗛𝘆𝗯𝗿𝗶𝗱".
If you haven't read the previous post I made on maxing out the stock fuel system on E40 please go to my profile and scroll down until you find it and have a read.
This post is going to cover the first part of testing with the
Xtreme-DI LLC
Upgraded HPFP and Bosch Motorsports +30% injectors.
Just so it is clear, here are the changes since the baseline testing from last week:
- XDI HPFP35 Upgraded High Pressure Fuel Pump
- Bosch Motorsports +30% Flow Injectors
- AEM 500psi MAP Sensor **
- Dizzy Tuning's MAP Sensor Adapter
- Turbosmart 14psi Wastegate Actuator
** The 500psi MAP sensor is what I had on hand, normally we would use a 5BAR map sensor but I didn't have any pigtails handy for our Motec 5BAR sensors so I had to improvise. Obviously this is OVERKILL but it got the job done. For customers that are looking to go over 29psi we will have 5BAR kits on hand. Still overkill but it's a quality sensor and that is more important.
The fuel remained E40 to keep testing consistent from the baseline. Unfortunately it needed a little bit more ethanol for this setup but I will get more into that later.
In addition to testing the new fuel setup we are also testing the Turbo Technics S280 and see what it's max capability is, and we found it. We had this thing SCREAMING and push it's to it's absolute limit to where it just wouldn't make anymore power even with increased boost pressure.
Dynograph below is comparing 100% stock fuel system max safe power, to the upgraded pump/injectors on the same turbo.
𝗦𝘁𝗼𝗰𝗸 𝗙𝘂𝗲𝗹 𝗦𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺:
𝟯𝟯𝟬𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟲𝟱𝘄𝘁𝗾 @ 𝟮𝟲.𝟱𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗛𝗼𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴
𝗫𝗗𝗜/𝗕𝗼𝘀𝗰𝗵 𝗙𝘂𝗲𝗹 𝗦𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺:
𝟰𝟬𝟬𝘄𝗵𝗽 / 𝟯𝟵𝟬𝘄𝘁𝗾 @ 𝟮𝟴𝗽𝘀𝗶 𝗿𝗶𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝟯𝟱𝗽𝘀𝗶
The reason why I decided to start at lower boost (28psi at 3500rpm) and linearly raise it up (35psi at 6500rpm) was to keep the torque down on the stock block while also keeping the clutch from slipping. We got up to 420wtq on one of the pulls and the clutch was struggling to hold the power.
I mentioned above that the car could have used some more ethanol for this setup. Reasoning being is that I was starting to see some knock in the upper RPM. So I had to bring timing down but raise the boost up to make the power. Likely the same power could of been had with a little more ethanol, 1-2* more of timing, and about 3-4psi less boost. But as I mentioned I wanted to keep the testing consistent so we stuck with E40.
Likely with better charge temps (We were seeing 110* on the dyno) and less humidity (it was 85% humidity last night), a little more ethanol, and some added timing. We could have hit the 410-420whp mark. Though that still means the turbo is well outside it's efficiency range.
𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐅𝐔𝐄𝐋 𝐒𝐘𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐌:
For clarity this is all being fueled by Direct Injection. There is 𝗡𝗢 𝗔𝗨𝗫 𝗙𝗨𝗘𝗟 on this vehicle. This is 100% being controlled through the factory fuel system.
The car met commanded fuel pressure without problem through entire testing last night. I have attached a picture below (second picture) showing the commanded pressure (blue line) and actual pressure (green line). We are raising the high pressure demand with RPM as the pump flows MORE fuel with MORE RPM. Commanding more pressure than you need at lower RPM can just cause stress on the on the injectors. You only need to use as much pressure as needed to stay on your AFR target. You can see in the third picture below AFR was on target (12.0:1 AFR) the entire pull within 2%.
So we definitely have plenty of pump, and the injectors seem to be handling the combo just fine. I do believe with a little more ethanol we would reach the max of the injectors at 400whp on E60ish. Can't really say that for sure without actually doing the testing on it but we are going to wait for our next turbo to get here before we push this fuel system a little further. The goal will be to make 370-380whp on straight E85 out of the pump just to see if the fuel system can handle it. Which means 90% of the customers out there will be able to run E85 straight out of the pump without having to mix on their Sub 400whp car.
Now, I see people asking "Why wouldn't I just run Aux Fuel / Port Injection. It's cheaper, and it cleans the valves". So here are a few points on why we are looking to take Direct Injection upgrades as far as possible on the platforms we support.
- This is a simple bolt on affair, no need to tap wires into your stock engine harness, and no fuel lines or hardware to install. You simply remove the stock components and install the new upgraded parts. I was able to install both the injectors and the pump in less than an hour.
- There aren't two systems that need to be tuned. When you add AUX Fuel/Port Injection you are trying to make two ECU's work together that don't talk to each other. They are completely separated.
- No need to flash the injector controller or disconnect/turn off when switching fuels. With a full DI system that can support your two different fuels you simply fill up with whatever fuel you like and map switch.
- Aux fueling (for now) is controlled by a system made in 1998 (Split Second). This is batch fire, and not a sequential system. So it does not spray when the valves are open they all just fire at the same time regardless if the valve is open or not. This causes "puddling" and changes the state of the fuel from an atomized state and enters your cylinder as a "shot" of fuel versus efficiently combining in the cylinder with the fuel from the DI side.
- We, as well as most tuners charge more for aux fuel tuning. If you do the pump/injector upgrade it is covered in our standard tuning rates, no additional cost.
- Carbon build up is less of a factor when you are running Ethanol. The only reason you would need to do a fuel system upgrade like this would be to run more ethanol. With ethanol there is virtually no carbon deposits to bake onto the back of the valves.
- This is getting us a step closer to being able to provide a full flex fuel capable system through the stock ECU. Meaning you will be able to fill up with any fuel between E10 and E85 and the ECU will compensate automatically without switching tunes. No ETA on this obviously as there is another party involved that needs to provide the ability but we will get there.
Do I still recommend Port Injection / Aux Fuel? Absolutely. I can't say that it doesn't work because we have proven that it does work all the way up to 700whp. However I recommend that the DI system be upgraded ALONG WITH aux fuel when the fuel demand for just the DI system can't be met. Allowing your engine to get the majority of it's fuel from the DI system allows you to rely on the port injection less, which means you fuel the engine "MO BETTA" and it's less stress on the fuel system overall.
𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐓𝐔𝐑𝐁𝐎:
The Turbo Technics S280 is by far the best bolt-on turbo upgrade for the Fiesta ST to date. If you are looking for quick spool and (realistically) a solid 370-380whp turbo then this is it. We were seeing 30psi at 3500rpm, no other turbo on the market has the fast of spool and still be 350whp+ capable.
Yes, I made 400whp, and there might of been another 10-15whp in it with some more ethanol and timing, but for the turbo size I don't see 35psi of boost sustainable. Based on the wheel size and the turbine shaft it will definitely put stress on the turbo. I could be wrong, it could last "FOR-EV-ER" [/Sandlot] but to keep the turbo and the stock engine happy lets call it 370whp as the mint area for this turbo.
If you're not looking to make that much power, it's still a solid choice because you aren't sacrificing spool or low end torque with this turbo. Say you just want a little bit over 300whp, you would only need 25psi to hit that mark and it hits 25psi at 3200RPM. The stock turbo hits 25psi at 3000-3100rpm, so virtually zero added lag.
So, if you want one. Myself and
Ron Miller
have them on our websites and you can order today! (Yea, I didn't use proper grammar order there but I do what I want
𝗪𝗛𝗔𝗧𝗦 𝗡𝗘𝗫𝗧?:
We do have some more fuel system changes to test along with some even bigger injectors to get us through the next 100whp (400-500whp). However we need to make some changes to the car itself.
- Clutch was slipping slightly on these last pulls with the big boy torque. So we are working on some single and twin disc clutches for the Fiesta ST. More information about this soon.
- The turbo is pretty much capped out and we aren't going to be able to continue through our next phase of testing with this turbo. So we have a Peron G-Series Turbo kit on the way for the car, and I will be pairing it with a G25-660 w/ .92 A/R turbocharger and that should get us through the foreseeable future in testing.
- I have a longblock en-route along with a transmission to launch our Engine and Transmission Program. Just like the Focus ST/RS and Ecoboost Mustang we will have a full Shortblock and Cylinder Head package available and likely a full turn key longblock for our customers to purchase.
The overall goal is 600whp. Yes, a lofty goal for the 1.6L but who is to say it will be a 1.6L it's whole life
𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐗𝐃𝐈 𝐏𝐮𝐦𝐩, 𝐈𝐧𝐣𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬, 𝐌𝐀𝐏 𝐒𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐨𝐫 𝐊𝐢𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐚𝐝𝐝𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐰𝐞𝐛𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐚𝐲 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐰𝐞 𝐟𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐳𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐧 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠. 𝐖𝐞 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐩𝐮𝐭 𝐭𝐨𝐠𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐚 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐩𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐚𝐠𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐛𝐮𝐲𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐨𝐠𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫.
*𝘘𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬 𝘕𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘴*
- 𝘋𝘺𝘯𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘢𝘱𝘩 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘸𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳. 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘵𝘤𝘩 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘴𝘭𝘪𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘵 2000𝘳𝘱𝘮. 𝘚𝘰 𝘐 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘩𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘩𝘢𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘳𝘰𝘭𝘭 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘬𝘦𝘦𝘱 𝘪𝘵 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘴𝘭𝘪𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨.
- 𝘚𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘵 5, 𝘴𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬 𝘪𝘴 𝘢𝘵 3. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘐 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘨𝘰𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘵𝘰 3, 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘳 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘴 .34𝘩𝘱, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘴 𝘪𝘵 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘵 𝘣𝘺 .25𝘩𝘱. 𝘔𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘮𝘢𝘭 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘐 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘥𝘥𝘭𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘴𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨. 𝘚𝘮𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘵 0 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘦𝘥 1𝘏𝘗 (401𝘸𝘩𝘱).
- 𝘜𝘯𝘤𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘯𝘶𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 387𝘸𝘩𝘱/380𝘸𝘵𝘲
Partners:
Uwe Ostmann
/
Xtreme-DI LLC
Ron Miller
/
Whoosh Motorsports
COBB Tuning
Shoutout to
Jason Chabza
/
Dizzy Tuning
for supplying the MAP sensor adapter.
Attachments
Questions about Adam's displacement increase speculations above;
There is absolutely NO room whatsoever in this block for bore increases, correct??
How much more stroke can these things handle before it becomes 'ungainly', and starts to severely limit the red line, and cause fatally excessive piston speeds (since these are already technically undersquare, 'strokers' right from the factory)?![[dunno]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_dunno.gif "Dunno [dunno]")
There is absolutely NO room whatsoever in this block for bore increases, correct??
How much more stroke can these things handle before it becomes 'ungainly', and starts to severely limit the red line, and cause fatally excessive piston speeds (since these are already technically undersquare, 'strokers' right from the factory)?
Questions about Adam's displacement increase speculations above;
There is absolutely NO room whatsoever in this block for bore increases, correct??
How much more stroke can these things handle before it becomes 'ungainly', and starts to severely limit the red line, and cause fatally excessive piston speeds (since these are already technically undersquare, 'strokers' right from the factory)?
There is absolutely NO room whatsoever in this block for bore increases, correct??
How much more stroke can these things handle before it becomes 'ungainly', and starts to severely limit the red line, and cause fatally excessive piston speeds (since these are already technically undersquare, 'strokers' right from the factory)?
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