conclusion: stage 2 aka >25lbs of boost needs symposer clamps or delete

[theblue]

So I was driving on the highway yesterday and went to put my foot down hard in 6th gear for a pass and got a loud BANG followed by no boosty boost. I knew from other turbo cars that I popped a hose so I continued home expecting to find one of the connections to the intercooler off. Now I had double clamped the inlet to the intercooler with a second normal worm clamp in the past because this is a known weak area. I didn't get to even checking this because when I popped the hood I found the hose to the symposer had popped clear off. I was a little surprised to see the clamps are only compression style and that's not a great idea ever. At this point I thought back to how sometimes in the past I felt like I had turbo surging in 6th gear only under heavy load. I thought this might just be too much for the car and drove around it by downshifting or being a little easier on the throttle. Nope, that was boost leaking at these clamps probably.

Flash back to 2019 and I got a symposer delete but never bother to install it. Man was I glad to have this on hand and the car even completed step one of removal for me!. I slapped that on in 10 minutes and went for a test drive.

Man the boost hits sooner and harder in all gears. No more surge on the highway in 6th either.

So I'm posting this to tell you guys who like me didn't know any better -- The symposer connection clamps MUST be upgraded to worm clamps or delete it. You'll make more power, working the turbo less hard / less heat and be glad you did it.

thanks for reading.

 

[SerialBrain2]

definately. second mod i did was putting a rubber expansion plug in the hole and threw the whole symposer/hose contraption out.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Second thing I did to my car once home from the dealer on initial pickup, after installing the Ford Performance carbon look shift knob.

Just to be sure the same thing above did not happen to me (and to not have to hear the false sound BS), I used the expanded plug option, AND then put a silicone cap (Sure Motorsports, Ron/Whoosh did not offer one at that time ) over that, with a very secure worm style clamp sealing it all down.

 

[theblue]

I'm just surprised tuners providing maps who list their requirements don't mention this as a MUST have mod.

 

[SerialBrain2]

my first mod was the rear motor mount

 

[M-Sport fan]

my first mod was the rear motor mount

That was done the very first week of ownership, even though I had the CP-E RMM in my possession 4 months before the car even arrived on order.

 

[RubenZZZ]

I blew my HKS BOV off the first day I had it on under full boost while using the factory clamp. I had to limp my car home with no boost.

I new worm clamp fixed that issue.


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[JDG]

So I was driving on the highway yesterday and went to put my foot down hard in 6th gear for a pass and got a loud BANG followed by no boosty boost.

I didn't make it past this sentence. Foot down in 6th is asking for trouble with low speed pre ignition. 6th is for cruising, downshift to pass.

 

[theblue]

I didn't make it past this sentence. Foot down in 6th is asking for trouble with low speed pre ignition. 6th is for cruising, downshift to pass.

I see no problem with 65 to 80 flat in 6th, the car should be able to handle it with our gearing. Yes I know it pushes the EGTs etc, but we're not talking that much abuse. This car has the easiest life of anything in my fleet, it needs a little stress testing.

 

[JDG]

I see no problem with 65 to 80 flat in 6th, the car should be able to handle it with our gearing. Yes I know it pushes the EGTs etc, but we're not talking that much abuse. This car has the easiest life of anything in my fleet, it needs a little stress testing.

Well, you’re wrong. It has nothing to do with egt’s. Read this complete article and if you still think you’re okay, I will shut up and wish you luck:


https://stratifiedauto.com/blog/low...the-mazdaspeed-disi-and-ford-ecoboost-motors/

Main point is you’re playing Russian roulette right now.


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[theblue]

my first mod was the rear motor mount

yeah, the single best mod for these cars. so bad without it.

 

[sonicmn]

Well, you’re wrong. It has nothing to do with egt’s. Read this complete article and if you still think you’re okay, I will shut up and wish you luck:


https://stratifiedauto.com/blog/low...the-mazdaspeed-disi-and-ford-ecoboost-motors/

Main point is you’re playing Russian roulette right now.


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Not saying I disagree with the article, moreso interested in what constitutes "low speed" in this instance.

I did some reading of the article you provided and a few other articles I found online and have not really found what I was looking for. Does anyone have input on what RPM is considered "low speed"?

I only ask as in the FiST 65mph is something close to 3000 RPM, in my mind I do not really call that point "low speed" as the internals are moving fairly rapidly inside the motor (for beyond what I would consider lugging it - ~1500 RPM) and you are well into peak torque of the motor at that point (I believe stock it makes peak torque ~1,600 rpm) and the torque begins to fall off substantially beyond 5000 RPM.

While I agree things can get nasty down in the low rpm range with shuddering and lugging, doing a 6th gear pull from 3000 RPM will load the motor up pretty heavily, I can imagine the load on the motor is lower in 4th or 5th, as the gearing causes better acceleration and lower engine loads, but what is the point of a small turbo car if you can't use it in its peak torque range? - I don't really think my point applies to the people with aggressive tunes and/or hybrid/big turbos as that is probably quite a bit closer to the failure point of the motor than stock.

Not really sure where this is going, just looking for info/discussion on the topic that seems a little on the "video games cause violence" side of things when people say you cant put your foot down in 6th gear going 60+ MPH.

 

[JDG]

Not saying I disagree with the article, moreso interested in what constitutes "low speed" in this instance.

I did some reading of the article you provided and a few other articles I found online and have not really found what I was looking for. Does anyone have input on what RPM is considered "low speed"?

I only ask as in the FiST 65mph is something close to 3000 RPM, in my mind I do not really call that point "low speed" as the internals are moving fairly rapidly inside the motor (for beyond what I would consider lugging it - ~1500 RPM) and you are well into peak torque of the motor at that point (I believe stock it makes peak torque ~1,600 rpm) and the torque begins to fall off substantially beyond 5000 RPM.

While I agree things can get nasty down in the low rpm range with shuddering and lugging, doing a 6th gear pull from 3000 RPM will load the motor up pretty heavily, I can imagine the load on the motor is lower in 4th or 5th, as the gearing causes better acceleration and lower engine loads, but what is the point of a small turbo car if you can't use it in its peak torque range? - I don't really think my point applies to the people with aggressive tunes and/or hybrid/big turbos as that is probably quite a bit closer to the failure point of the motor than stock.

Not really sure where this is going, just looking for info/discussion on the topic that seems a little on the "video games cause violence" side of things when people say you cant put your foot down in 6th gear going 60+ MPH.

I might be being too sensitive. In my eyes, I won’t go beyond half throttle in 6th unless I’m really moving, like 4k rpm and even then, I’m likely in 5th unless I’m going undisclosed speeds. I also have taller tires so 65mph in my car is like 2500rpm. If you are running a 23” tall tire, this could be different and I didn’t consider that.

Minimum rpm for full throttle for me is 2000rpm in these cars (2-4th gears). But as you alluded, I haven’t driven a stock turbo car is a couple years. I guess I just don’t think it’s worth the risk when you can just quick downshift to 5th and get more power and minimize your risk.

You make good points though, just really wanted to make you aware. When I read that first sentence, I was like damn, another victim of lspi, bummer.


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[theblue]

good discussion and I appreciate the article. I've owned a few turbo cars and tracked my old evo8 for yearsso I'm pretty familiar with the topic but can always learn more. When I say "put my foot down in 6th" I'm really saying from a 3000rpm steady state I press the gas pedal to roll into the boost enough then go flat. the car has enough revs that it's not such shock. Something like 50mph in 6th doing this would be too abusive for my tastes.

I think we are all basically on the same page with theory but willing to take different risks

 

[JDG]

good discussion and I appreciate the article. I've owned a few turbo cars and tracked my old evo8 for yearsso I'm pretty familiar with the topic but can always learn more. When I say "put my foot down in 6th" I'm really saying from a 3000rpm steady state I press the gas pedal to roll into the boost enough then go flat. the car has enough revs that it's not such shock. Something like 50mph in 6th doing this would be too abusive for my tastes.

I think we are all basically on the same page with theory but willing to take different risks

Yeah agreed. Just be mindful that this phenomenon differs from your port injected cars, this is unique to GDI.


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[theblue]

I was way harder on my 06 VW A3 that was tuned and GDI turbo. traded that car in with almost 200k.

 

[gtx3076]

I might have to actually mod a hard part on my car. I don't even like the fake motor sounds, just too lazy to mess with it. Plus, from my last modded car, I had so many leftover OEM parts laying around, it just became a headache to store it all. Was a relief when I finally sold it, I tossed everything in 2 big cardboard boxes and sent them along with the car.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I might have to actually mod a hard part on my car. I don't even like the fake motor sounds, just too lazy to mess with it. Plus, from my last modded car, I had so many leftover OEM parts laying around, it just became a headache to store it all. Was a relief when I finally sold it, I tossed everything in 2 big cardboard boxes and sent them along with the car.

HA! I STILL have leftover 4th gen Z28 parts in my cellar, since the transport service the buyer sent to pick it up refused to take the car loaded up with those parts, claiming a 'weight limit' problem, even though everything I piled into it actually BELONGED in the factory standard car, and would have been that weight anyway. LOL

 

[theblue]

now that I've lived without the symposer for a few days I can't decide if I liked it or not. the car is bland and relaxing without it.

I would LOVE for it to be on a switch or configured to only be on when speed (not just load) is increasing. I love sitting on the highway without it, but would like it when accelerating from a light.

 

[CarGuy]

now that I've lived without the symposer for a few days I can't decide if I liked it or not. the car is bland and relaxing without it.

I would LOVE for it to be on a switch or configured to only be on when speed (not just load) is increasing. I love sitting on the highway without it, but would like it when accelerating from a light.

I enjoy the sound. I know, one of the few.

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