Stock Rotors too soft?

[JorJorBinks]

I had a ‘16 from new that I replaced stock rotors and pads with stock rotors and EBC reds at 20k due to warped rotors and a couple mm lip on the outside edge. The second set I got up to 53k before having the car totaled out with the same issue already showing it’s ugly face, warped rotors and a lip. Now I’m in a ‘19 new with stock rotors and EBC reds at 21k aaand the same problem is present once again. Crazy! Warped rotors and a lip at 21k. I haven’t tracked the cars, I drive aggressively but nothing out of the FiST ordinary. Downshift every slowdown and keep the calipers greased and clean. The ‘19 had the EBC’s put on around 50 miles with the full face of the rotor being nearly pristine.

Now my question is are the stock rotors soft? Are they supposed to wear so quickly? And would switching to a StopTech Cryo Plain rotor net longer life with same braking characteristics?

I tried as I could to search the forum for answers and came up short. I don’t feel like wasting money on the StopTechs if the problem isn’t the metallurgy.


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[TyphoonFiST]

I had a ‘16 from new that I replaced stock rotors and pads with stock rotors and EBC reds at 20k due to warped rotors and a couple mm lip on the outside edge. The second set I got up to 53k before having the car totaled out with the same issue already showing it’s ugly face, warped rotors and a lip. Now I’m in a ‘19 new with stock rotors and EBC reds at 21k aaand the same problem is present once again. Crazy! Warped rotors and a lip at 21k. I haven’t tracked the cars, I drive aggressively but nothing out of the FiST ordinary. Downshift every slowdown and keep the calipers greased and clean. The ‘19 had the EBC’s put on around 50 miles with the full face of the rotor being nearly pristine.

Now my question is are the stock rotors soft? Are they supposed to wear so quickly? And would switching to a StopTech Cryo Plain rotor net longer life with same braking characteristics?

I tried as I could to search the forum for answers and came up short. I don’t feel like wasting money on the StopTechs if the problem isn’t the metallurgy.


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Rotors seldomly warp....FYI. They become out of round. And therefore should be machined down to bring them back to within specs if possible. If they have reached discard.....time to throw them away. My rotors and pads in the front went to 24k and I replaced them due to getting to I'd say in the yellow for pad wear with maybe 30% front left and at least 50% left on the rears. Replaced the whole setup with Centric Cryoed front slotted rotors and normal slotted rears with Carbotech 1521 bobcat pads. Now I'm at 64k and still have 50% all the way around as I just cleaned...inspected and re-lubed the Pins. Thinking of doing EBCs Apollo front with their Yellow pads that come from and rear. But the pins all the way around should be cleaned and re-lubed once a YEAR. They are known to seize. Do you Autocross? Did you bed in the pads or are they pre-bedded? Maybe this could be an issue. Good luck!

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[JorJorBinks]

Thanks for the info on the cryod brakes, no Autocross, just street with a couple hundred miles a year of twisties thrown in. The first set of all OEM did a small procedure with gradual faster mph increment stops, and both times with the EBC reds I followed their recommended bed in. The EBC reds also come with a bed in layer that looks like sand paper. The pads have not been the issue at all, I’d say 60-70% material left on the fronts and nearly 80-90% on the rears. To touch on the warped bit, the worn face of the rotor was too thin, according to the shop I took it to, to have it turned. They are the ones that showed me they were warped when they put them on the lathe and showed one section was thinner than the rest of the face. I don’t know the correct terminology for “warped”, but it’s what causes my vibration under mid to heavy braking.


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[TyphoonFiST]

Thanks for the info on the cryod brakes, no Autocross, just street with a couple hundred miles a year of twisties thrown in. The first set of all OEM did a small procedure with gradual faster mph increment stops, and both times with the EBC reds I followed their recommended bed in. The EBC reds also come with a bed in layer that looks like sand paper. The pads have not been the issue at all, I’d say 60-70% material left on the fronts and nearly 80-90% on the rears. To touch on the warped bit, the worn face of the rotor was too thin, according to the shop I took it to, to have it turned. They are the ones that showed me they were warped when they put them on the lathe and showed one section was thinner than the rest of the face. I don’t know the correct terminology for “warped”, but it’s what causes my vibration under mid to heavy braking.


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Out of round* not warped. They are just Worn....most Stock Rotors on Vehicle are 1 time use and usually can't be Turned because Most of them are cheap skates and out to make a buck. I believe my cryoed/ Frozen rotors helped them last this long. You can get anything you want Cryoed....There is a place called Frozenrotors/diversified cryogenics in Mn....which happens to be down the road from me. They sell and Freeze parts. Check them out or see if you can find them already Frozen. Good luck!

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[JorJorBinks]

Glad you had the info I needed! Thanks for the knowledge. [emoji2941]


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[Ford ST]

Warped rotors also known as lack of parallelism happens because of uneven pad material buildup on the rotor surface.


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[JorJorBinks]

Warped rotors also known as lack of parallelism happens because of uneven pad material buildup on the rotor surface.


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Would there be a way I can prevent this from happening? Also is there a way to tell if this is happening?


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[TyphoonFiST]

Would there be a way I can prevent this from happening? Also is there a way to tell if this is happening?


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Good quality rotors and brake inspections with periodic greasing of the slid pins

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[green_henry]

Would there be a way I can prevent this from happening? Also is there a way to tell if this is happening?


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Also, be careful when you wash your car. When I was in high school, we warped the rotors on a friend's VW Rabbit when we hit them with water at the coin-op car wash after a canyon run. I would also avoid hitting the rotors to any car wash soaps, because if they contain wax, that can cause problems.

FWIW, I've been happy with Stoptech slotted rotors. Clean the wheels and tires with a degreaser first, and then wash the rest your car afterwards (avoiding the wheels and tires). My two cents.

 

[Ford ST]

Would there be a way I can prevent this from happening? Also is there a way to tell if this is happening?


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Different braking techniques can help. If you've done some aggressive braking and then you come to a stop, and you're holding the pedal in one position until you go again that's a good way to deposit some uneven material.
Also different brake pads can deposit material in different ways. I would personally recommend a different brake pad.
Brake calipers sticking can also do it but this would also show up as uneven pad wear.

A lot of good information out there on this subject. You will learn a lot more researching it on your own then you will from any of us.


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[JorJorBinks]

To Green, I’ve for sure hit the brake rotors and calipers with the soap wand more then once. Glad to know that’s a bad habit! I’ve also been guilty of catching a red light after a long fast braking section. So I’ll change the rotors for stop techs, and switch pad company. Any recommendation for the pads? I really like the ceramic red stuff for its all around characteristics. Thanks a lot to you guys in the Fiesta community.


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[TyphoonFiST]

To Green, I’ve for sure hit the brake rotors and calipers with the soap wand more then once. Glad to know that’s a bad habit! I’ve also been guilty of catching a red light after a long fast braking section. So I’ll change the rotors for stop techs, and switch pad company. Any recommendation for the pads? I really like the ceramic red stuff for its all around characteristics. Thanks a lot to you guys in the Fiesta community.


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Call Oakos or contact them on the forum.....Get the Carbotech 1521 Bobcat pads...AWESOME PADS!

 

[green_henry]

Call Oakos or contact them on the forum.....Get the Carbotech 1521 Bobcat pads...AWESOME PADS!

+1 the Carbotech 1521 pads are great street/spirited-driving pads. I haven't used RedStuff before, but I have used YellowStuff and liked them (dirty, but great performance).

 

[the duke]

Rotors seldomly warp....FYI. They become out of round. And therefore should be machined down to bring them back to within specs if possible. If they have reached discard.....time to throw them away. My rotors and pads in the front went to 24k and I replaced them due to getting to I'd say in the yellow for pad wear with maybe 30% front left and at least 50% left on the rears. Replaced the whole setup with Centric Cryoed front slotted rotors and normal slotted rears with Carbotech 1521 bobcat pads. Now I'm at 64k and still have 50% all the way around as I just cleaned...inspected and re-lubed the Pins. Thinking of doing EBCs Apollo front with their Yellow pads that come from and rear. But the pins all the way around should be cleaned and re-lubed once a YEAR. They are known to seize. Do you Autocross? Did you bed in the pads or are they pre-bedded? Maybe this could be an issue. Good luck!

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Depends. I warped the hell out of my rotors at the track the first time out, but I was on OEM pads and rotors braking at the marker 3. I can get aggressive on the brakes once I know the line. I will say these stock rotors will work for a session or two, but there are a lot of better options. It also depends on what you're doing with the car. Really unless you're actually on the track getting heat into them, stock pads and rotors are great, they're good for autocross. I wouldn't change them unless you want to adjust the bite via pad compound/selection or switch to a ceramic to reduce the dust. I'm referring to the summer pads, I have no experience with the all-winter pads offered later. While I also can't comment on seizing calipers, that's likely due to me R&R'ing my brakes 2 times per year when I switch fluid/pads in the offseason. The brakes on this car are very easy, 2 bolts and the caliper is off, remove the pin, wipe, and apply some new grease.

With that said I also use Centric Cryo-rotors (Stoptech bought Centric some time back, they're Stoptech blanks really) and haven't had an issue with them. They're cheap and work great. People need to remember brake rotors are expendable. Exotic multi-piece designs are nice provided you're running it for a proper reason. There's not much of an advantage beyond a nice iron blank with some internal veins for cooling. There's a reason Porsche guys run steel rotors at the track when their car was options with PCCBs. Friendly reminder Slots/Cross-Drilling are worthless on modern hardware unless you're running specific compounds/braking systems.

Different braking techniques can help. If you've done some aggressive braking and then you come to a stop, and you're holding the pedal in one position until you go again that's a good way to deposit some uneven material.
Also different brake pads can deposit material in different ways. I would personally recommend a different brake pad.
Brake calipers sticking can also do it but this would also show up as uneven pad wear.

A lot of good information out there on this subject. You will learn a lot more researching it on your own then you will from any of us.


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The above is precisely why you have cool-down laps and never leave your handbrake on after the track. Leave it in gear so you don't hotspot the pads/rotor.

If you're interested look around at adhesion vs. abrasion for braking components. I know StopTech had some nice article(s) on their site talking about all this. It was a good read.

To Green, I’ve for sure hit the brake rotors and calipers with the soap wand more then once. Glad to know that’s a bad habit! I’ve also been guilty of catching a red light after a long fast braking section. So I’ll change the rotors for stop techs, and switch pad company. Any recommendation for the pads? I really like the ceramic red stuff for its all around characteristics. Thanks a lot to you guys in the Fiesta community.


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Pad selection is like oil. Everyone has an opinion and preference. It'll depend more on what you do/want. I'd suggest being real honest here. Something like Hawk Blues will SHRED your discs but the stopping will be awesome. Not great for a street car or even spirited canyon runs.

 

[SteveS]

I don't know if it would be correct to say they are too soft. Consumption of the rotor can be an engineered part of the brake system. What is the most common complaint about the Fiesta ST's stock brakes? Too much brake dust on the wheels. Where does the vast majority of brake dust come from? The rotors (not the pads). https://ebcbrakes.com/articles/brake-dust-what-is-it-and-what-causes-it/

Way back in the late 1970's, my Mk. 1 Fiesta went through brake rotors fairly frequently (every 20,000-30,000 miles). But a new rotor was about $15 and simple to change. It was considered a consumable part. Nowadays, at $57 the front rotor could still be considered a consumable part. And it's half the price of the pads.

 

[Ford ST]

That is correct there was a article in one of the car magazines about Porsche trying a different type of brake rotor, because brake dust is mostly rotor dust.

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[theblue]

good stuff in here, I just want to add that you should be as ready to blame the pads for rotor wear as much as the rotors. I race on cryo rotors from tirerack which are cheap and work fantastic. not sure if they offer for fist.

 

[AZSP33D]

Here's some "opinions"... Stock rotors are very cheap, but actually I have a nice Accuturn brake lathe so when I turn them and refinish them with a hone, and they seem to work even better than new (same experience with other cars also that have one piece rotors, 2000 Cobra and F250). On a different note, switch off or turn off completely the ESC as it's taxing the brakes all the time... OEM pads for the 2018/2019 are excellent, the Carbotech is more agressive with already overboosted tiny brakes so be careful. Not a fan of EBC pads (except for the sintered HHH EPFA pads on motorcycles with are outstanding) but the rest wear rotors in a weird way and rapidly (Yellows and Blues) have been an issue for people for decades although it's been a while since I've used them. Great company, perhaps the reds are different, but the others are not rotor friendly for the performance. I have used Carbotech for the Fiesta but haven't found a compund I like and it's pricey to buy several more... the pads I always LOVED were Performance Friction Carbon Metallic, but I haven't had them on the stock Fiesta yet as I've listened to others' opinions having little experience with this car myself until last year.

 

[JorJorBinks]

Seems like a lot of you are suggesting better rotors like the Centric’s, with stock summer pads. I liked the stock setup a lot, but thought the pad was the cause of my rotor headache. Thanks for the article on the brake dust mostly being rotor! That would make a lot of sense as the pads are wearing at a slower rate as compared to the rotors. I was also thinking about what type of miles I put on, I’m about 80% city and 20% highway so that could also have lots to do with ware rate. The only other car I maintain is my girlfriends Prius, so Her 150k on one set of brakes is a whole ‘nother standard.

Is it a good idea if I were to replace rotors and keep my pads? Could I refinish the pads? Or should I throw sets on together?


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[PunkST]

Imo they are a consumable. Just get the advance auto parts heavy duty ones and replace as needed. And possibly change your braking style some. My oe set with oe summer pads made it to 54k with lots of autocross and track days. Ive been on reds since and i only "warped" them when i hit a deer and it had to sit for repairs for a month.