My official RaceChip thread -

[danbfree]

Edit: I got the age mixed up with another guy who is also quite active on here and isn't quite 19 yet, sorry, so excuse my references to age below!!!

I think the bottom-line is that if you just want a little bump in power and keep your warranty, then a Delta Boost Module would be the way to go. If you look those up they make MUCH more reasonable claims (18hp/25tq) CJPony Parts and Ron@ Whoosh sells them and he wouldn't sell junk, I mean it is from FlowMaster, known for exhausts but has name reputation at least a little behind it. I got my AP used from a guy who literally installed Stage 1 and then put the AP away until he sold his car, then he un-married the AP and sold it to me. For this kind of person a Delta Boost Module would be the way to go instead. But that guy essentially spent $500 (at the old price) to possibly invalidate his warranty and to not even take advantage of the features of his AP but he didn't lose much money at all at least with the re-sale value either. A Delta Boost Module ($240) could be harder to re-sell, but also works on the FoST and FoRS as well, so who knows but maybe not much loss in re-sale either... That said, OP is a young guy who sounds like he will be keeping his car for a while and seems to be a true enthusiast, so a used AP at $350-400 used is by far the better option for him. But he's young and he's learning, all we can do is support him through this process since he already spent the cash... So in for his results and to enjoy chatting with the kid as learns his way around here. At least he's creating a lot of threads and helping to wake up this board a bit too.

 

[jeff]

So some random guys say....Lets see what happens.

I really think you’ve missed the point of what I’m trying to say here. Let me try to summarize very concisely:

1, you will surely get gains from this, I never doubted that. Maybe you will get 10 hp. Good for you. You will get a ton of torque and the car will feel a lot faster, which will trick you into thinking that it really is faster, but the truth is there will not be much horsepower gain.

2, any gains you will get will be taking the fastest route using catchall technology applied carelessly to your car; it will not perform nearly as optimally as a real tune like the Cobb unit offers.

3, again they are claiming 250 hp which is complete horseshit. Based solely on that you should see this for what it is. As I said earlier, the fact that that deception is out there should be a tell as to the quality of this product as a whole and the integrity, or lack thereof, it has.

4, anyone with basic tuning knowledge can watch their videos and tell that they know very little about tuning but much more about sales.

5, a good thing for all of us would be for someone like you to put this product on your car and then put it on a dynamometer. Once you see that the car is making around 200-210 hp you can compare that to the advertised 250 and realize that all is not what it seems.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

This is a contradiction because its the same thing. You'd have to know exact numbers to see if it works or adds any considerable horsepower.



1. No its not odd, they are just advocating for tried and true methods. People don't use them because, for a small amount more, you can get an accessport. I remember when I had my first STI, I didn't want to spend the money on an AP and I went with an "open source" tune. It was fine for daily driving, but even it was an actual tune, just didnt have the neat handheld. However I eventually bought an AP for a myriad of reasons besides ease of access. All anyone is saying in this thread is that for a SMALL amount more of money you can get an AP, and get something that is known to work. If an AP was 2-300 more than this thing... sure by all means try it. Still, try it, but know its risky.

2. Something like this can never make the numbers they advertise. Its like the guys that roll up in their 02 eclipse that say their eBay intake and exhaust added 40hp because the ad on ebay said so. I know you don't care about dyno results, but thats the only way to prove something, scientific data and results. Your butt dyno might tell you there is a gain, but word of mouth often isn't enough, and thats what their sales pitch is about, they are trying to use word of mouth instead of facts to sell their product. Dress it up, make it sound great, like those electric turbo fans that sell on ebay. It sounds great, but may not be great in application.

Try it, find out.

As i said recently in one of these threads, my plan is to test my acceleration from like a 30-70 on the highway or a deserted backroad. Something like that won't cost me but a little gas but will give me a good measure how the performance was affected. I don't have to know exact numbers. Now those times won't tell me exactly what the HP increased but that's ok, if/when i get an AP i won't be using a dyno either.

Again, did you watch any of the links i posted? These are people using dynos to show HP gains, what do you think of them? You guys keep bringing up dynos and i keep showing you them, you can look them up yourself on TY it's real easy. There are dozens, are they all lying? Are they all faking dyno numbers?

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Edit: I got the age mixed up with another guy who is also quite active on here and isn't quite 19 yet, sorry, so excuse my references to age below!!!

I think the bottom-line is that if you just want a little bump in power and keep your warranty, then a Delta Boost Module would be the way to go. If you look those up they make MUCH more reasonable claims (18hp/25tq) CJPony Parts and Ron@ Whoosh sells them and he wouldn't sell junk, I mean it is from FlowMaster, known for exhausts but has name reputation at least a little behind it. I got my AP used from a guy who literally installed Stage 1 and then put the AP away until he sold his car, then he un-married the AP and sold it to me. For this kind of person a Delta Boost Module would be the way to go instead. But that guy essentially spent $500 (at the old price) to possibly invalidate his warranty and to not even take advantage of the features of his AP but he didn't lose much money at all at least with the re-sale value either. A Delta Boost Module ($240) could be harder to re-sell, but also works on the FoST and FoRS as well, so who knows but maybe not much loss in re-sale either... That said, OP is a young guy who sounds like he will be keeping his car for a while and seems to be a true enthusiast, so a used AP at $350-400 used is by far the better option for him. But he's young and he's learning, all we can do is support him through this process since he already spent the cash... So in for his results and to enjoy chatting with the kid as learns his way around here. At least he's creating a lot of threads and helping to wake up this board a bit too.

Well i thank you but im in my early 40s, not that young anymore. I don't look 40 mind you but im fit and have worked out since i was 12. Anyway, i did look up the Delta and people seem to like it fairly well too. But im not as interested in if the claims are spot on as i am how much it actually helps. I've posted several videos with dynos showing considerable HP gains.

The one with the camaro gained 30.5 peak hp (about 33hp at one point in the rpm curve) and the module on their website claimed something like 48 if i remember. Im guessing their 48 is based on a calculated BHP and not WHP. Pretty close in my book, i wouldn't call them unreasonable claims at all.

I keep repeating this, either all these people making videos are lying, or you guys are wrong about this product.

 

[jeff]

Well i thank you but im in my early 40s, not that young anymore. I don't look 40 mind you but im fit and have worked out since i was 12. Anyway, i did look up the Delta and people seem to like it fairly well too. But im not as interested in if the claims are spot on as i am how much it actually helps. I've posted several videos with dynos showing considerable HP gains.

The one with the camaro gained 30.5 peak hp (about 33hp at one point in the rpm curve) and the module on their website claimed something like 48 if i remember. Im guessing their 48 is based on a calculated BHP and not WHP. Pretty close in my book, i wouldn't call them unreasonable claims at all.

I keep repeating this, either all these people making videos are lying, or you guys are wrong about this product.

I think you are sincere here, and what follows is not directed at you, it's only meant to continue to attempt to make sense of this.

Again, we have to wonder how a company boasts 250 horsepower on stock turbo with no hardware upgrades. Hmm...expert tuners like Adam from Tune+ and the good folks from Stratified and Cobb have been working on optimal tuning for this platform for 6 years now...they have tuned probably a collective 1,000+ Fiesta STs, in some cases putting multiple tunes on one car (my car has 8 finalized custom tunes, for example). With all those years and experience we see over and over that a stock turbo Fiesta ST, even with all the bolt-ons (intake, FMIC, etc.) cannot make more than 215 or so safely on pump gas.

RaceChip comes along and boasts 250 horses with a tune only, no hardware.

IMPOSSIBLE.

You're looking at the dynos you're seeing as proof that what they are doing is real. However that contradicts what is clearly more data-based, experienced, proven objective data, in the case of our car. Logic would dictate that if they're fudging the numbers here they're fudging the numbers there, so even if you watch with your own eyes where a dyno on youTube shows a significant gain, because they clearly fudged the numbers (because of the 215-all-hardware-expert-tuners-specific-to-this-platform vs. 250 no-hardware-manbun-tune) in the case of the Fiesta ST you have to wonder if they're aren't carrying the same practices over in every situation (specifically, fudging their dyno numbers/video "proof") in order to sell product. Integrity, it's a rare thing.

Going further, dynos can be fudged. If they'll fudge the 250 number I'm here to tell you they'll fudge any of it. Can a dyno be fudged? I've been at enough dynamometer sessions to know that yes they can. There are many ways to achieve this...play with the correction factor in the software...put the inlet temp sensor in the wrong place for a reading that will boost your numbers...mess with gear ratios in the program...strap it tight on the control run and a bit looser on the test run...these are all ways to fudge numbers. Very easy, happens all the time.

Now, all that is to say that, again, it's about integrity, hype, truth in advertising...all these things point to something. If these guys tell you 250 then immediately there's a red flag - if you know anything about the car. Heck maybe they have a dyno vid out there that we can all find that shows 250. But as I said before even if that video says 250, it's

IMPOSSIBLE.

The same people that lie to sell you their quickfix catchall tune will tweak correction factor, put the inlet sensor somewhere to achieve different readings, insert incorrect gear ratios in the software, and play with the straps to get you that 250 number. It's easy. If you'll lie here you'll lie there. The fact that they clearly lied here (the 250 thing) is proof that they could (and likely did) lie many other places. So the video was faked, the dyno was tweaked, the people trade tried and tested data for something incredulous. Again, too many red flags. Eight years in and you're already tuning for 31 platforms? Come on.

Beyond all of that it's a shame because they show up, a new company, advertising insane gains on 31 platforms...the cattle hone in and jump on the bandwagon because of flashy advertising...meanwhile the people who really know what they're doing (Adam, Cobb, Stratified, others) are made to look like old news, has-beens, dinosaurs who somehow couldn't get near that 250 number.

It's all very sad to me. I believe in truth and integrity. This is not that.

 

[Spork1569]

Well i thank you but im in my early 40s, not that young anymore. I don't look 40 mind you but im fit and have worked out since i was 12. Anyway, i did look up the Delta and people seem to like it fairly well too. But im not as interested in if the claims are spot on as i am how much it actually helps. I've posted several videos with dynos showing considerable HP gains.

The one with the camaro gained 30.5 peak hp (about 33hp at one point in the rpm curve) and the module on their website claimed something like 48 if i remember. Im guessing their 48 is based on a calculated BHP and not WHP. Pretty close in my book, i wouldn't call them unreasonable claims at all.

I keep repeating this, either all these people making videos are lying, or you guys are wrong about this product.

One thing to note though is what engine the Cámaro has btw? Is it a 600+ HP beast? If so I don't see 30 hp gain as impossible especially given how much bigger and more powerful compared to our 1.6 liter.

The thing is since it's a small engine in our Fist, without adding further forced induction(ie big turbo or hybrid turbo) it becomes harder to push beyond a certain point in terms of HP.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

One thing to note though is what engine the Cámaro has btw? Is it a 600+ HP beast? If so I don't see 30 hp gain as impossible especially given how much bigger and more powerful compared to our 1.6 liter.

The thing is since it's a small engine in our Fist, without adding further forced induction(ie big turbo or hybrid turbo) it becomes harder to push beyond a certain point in terms of HP.

I thought about that too. So it's only a 2L turbo, only .4L larger than ours. Stock it ran 280whp which seems like a large jump for not even half a liter difference. My guess was Chevy pushed that turbo further to it's limit than ford has with our FIST stock turbo, so there's more room for overboosting it.

The RaceChip site says +52/39 for the Camaro, and says 55/63 for the fist. Again yes i admit when i look at what tuners say they get with our tunes, 55HP seems a bit out there but RC also claim 52 on the Camaro and this guys shows over 30, and as high as +33 at places in the RPM curve. I know BHP is worth less than WHP so if we convert it by %, it's fairly close to the claim.

Now i wish i had a legit FIST dyno to show. I will offer the ONE i did find but it's by the company themselves, FWIW. But it's also only 5mo old so im guessing the FIST race chip is a recent build and it hasn't been around for long, hence not too many real world people testing it on a dyno (and the FIST is a popular car for tuners). But all the dyno runs from other people/cars have to be worth something no? Anyway HERE is the video, make of it what you will.

I agree the videos of theirs look very well produced but they are European, German to be specific, i mean look at their fashion, man buns and fur hooded coats. I think they are just more cinematic than most Americans are lol. Production value doesn't necessarily mean their products don't work very well. One thing of note is when they are showing a diagram photo, they show 3 points of interest; the Camshaft, Intake pressure and Turbo Pressure.

I thought i remember somebody saying the 1.6T has two sensors, one for the Boost sensor and one for the manifold, so this video might be unique to the European 1.5L version. They also note that while the 1.5L only gained about 17WHP, the RPM curve is so much flatter it's still much faster overall than 17hp would suggest. The one i ordered was listed under the 1.6L of course and has larger claimed figures.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

We've tried, guys. This thread is spending too much time at the top of active topics, just let it die.

 

[Phishy]

LOL at this shitshow. I am going to go admire all of my "socket wrenches". Good luck to anybody involved in this mess. Who knew the Austrians are handing out 30whp for these cars like candy?

Happy motoring.

 

[MagnetiseST]

I thought about that too. So it's only a 2L turbo, only .4L larger than ours. Stock it ran 280whp which seems like a large jump for not even half a liter difference. My guess was Chevy pushed that turbo further to it's limit than ford has with our FIST stock turbo, so there's more room for overboosting it.

Thats a LOT of displacement. There is no replacement for displacement, any car with more displacement will make more power with the same parts. A couple of cars that hit near that number stock (from 2.0L engines) are: Civic Type R, Subaru WRX STi (JDM), Evo 8-10, Golf R etc. 280 is not a lot, but its not a crappy number either. The turbo is the restriction on the FiST, not the anything else. Also cooling systems have a lot to do with this, but we wont go into that because its not important.

The RaceChip site says +52/39 for the Camaro, and says 55/63 for the fist. Again yes i admit when i look at what tuners say they get with our tunes, 55HP seems a bit out there but RC also claim 52 on the Camaro and this guys shows over 30, and as high as +33 at places in the RPM curve. I know BHP is worth less than WHP so if we convert it by %, it's fairly close to the claim.

Seems like someone likes numbers in the 50s. To REMOTELY claim that the FiST is capable of anywhere NEAR what the Camaro can do is a gigantic red flag. But hey bigger is better in America right? To gain even 50BHP is an insane jump. We usually end up with around 230BHP and ~215WHP with full bolt ons and a tune. Another 20hp, BHP or WHP, isnt' happening, it cannot be done without nitrous, or a big turbo.

Now i wish i had a legit FIST dyno to show. I will offer the ONE i did find but it's by the company themselves, FWIW. But it's also only 5mo old so im guessing the FIST race chip is a recent build and it hasn't been around for long, hence not too many real world people testing it on a dyno (and the FIST is a popular car for tuners). But all the dyno runs from other people/cars have to be worth something no? Anyway HERE is the video, make of it what you will.

Okay so here is where I start to have a MASSIVE problem with everything going on here, that I did not notice before. First off, I hope you didn't buy a chip for a 2018 ST because those are only a 3 CYLINDER 1.5L in Europe. That isn't even close to what we have and its ENTIRELY different, you WILL damage something (none of the parts, save maybe coil packs and air boxes are interchangeable engine wise). Its a recent build because the car JUST came out over there, its a totally new body, totally different car. This would be like putting a chip for an EB Mustang on a GT with the logic of "Well its still a Mustang so it should work right?". No. It will not work.That being said the dyno is now irrelevant for this because its not a comparable vehicle.

Additionally no not all dynos are worth something, especially when the car is not the same car or when the values are skewed.

I agree the videos of theirs look very well produced but they are European, German to be specific, i mean look at their fashion, man buns and fur hooded coats. I think they are just more cinematic than most Americans are lol. Production value doesn't necessarily mean their products don't work very well. One thing of note is when they are showing a diagram photo, they show 3 points of interest; the Camshaft, Intake pressure and Turbo Pressure.

I thought i remember somebody saying the 1.6T has two sensors, one for the Boost sensor and one for the manifold, so this video might be unique to the European 1.5L version. They also note that while the 1.5L only gained about 17WHP, the RPM curve is so much flatter it's still much faster overall than 17hp would suggest. The one i ordered was listed under the 1.6L of course and has larger claimed figures.

Where was this diagram? Are you talking about when they overlaid random words on the engine bay? Its not unique to the European car, its not even the same car or close as ours. If they are tapping into the Cam-position sensor I am extremely hesitant about that, its one thing to tell the car to make more boost when it shouldn't but its a whole different degree to start messing with the cam timing tables without a real tune, you are asking for failure and issues down the road. Its only 17whp, but how much TQ? Torque is what moves the car, horsepower is what keeps it going. Don't be fooled by "smoother curves" because anyone can smooth a dyno plot, and anyone can change how a throttle responds (with a tune anyway, I don't know if they're fooling that sensor too).



If you do buy one of these things, be sure to post your results, and not just "i feel like its faster". Post some data.

 

[FJ16]

We've tried, guys. This thread is spending too much time at the top of active topics, just let it die.

Normally I'd agree with this, but I think a large number of people (myself included) genuinely want the OP to update with whatever results he sees - and keeping the thread active is probably the best way to make that happen.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

We've tried, guys. This thread is spending too much time at the top of active topics, just let it die.

Oh don't do that just yet, i have something interesting to ask and even if you don't have any answers, others might.

 

[cxwrench]

Oh the suspense...ask soon.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Thats a LOT of displacement. There is no replacement for displacement, any car with more displacement will make more power with the same parts. A couple of cars that hit near that number stock (from 2.0L engines) are: Civic Type R, Subaru WRX STi (JDM), Evo 8-10, Golf R etc. 280 is not a lot, but its not a crappy number either. The turbo is the restriction on the FiST, not the anything else. Also cooling systems have a lot to do with this, but we wont go into that because its not important.



Seems like someone likes numbers in the 50s. To REMOTELY claim that the FiST is capable of anywhere NEAR what the Camaro can do is a gigantic red flag. But hey bigger is better in America right? To gain even 50BHP is an insane jump. We usually end up with around 230BHP and ~215WHP with full bolt ons and a tune. Another 20hp, BHP or WHP, isnt' happening, it cannot be done without nitrous, or a big turbo.



Okay so here is where I start to have a MASSIVE problem with everything going on here, that I did not notice before. First off, I hope you didn't buy a chip for a 2018 ST because those are only a 3 CYLINDER 1.5L in Europe. That isn't even close to what we have and its ENTIRELY different, you WILL damage something (none of the parts, save maybe coil packs and air boxes are interchangeable engine wise). Its a recent build because the car JUST came out over there, its a totally new body, totally different car. This would be like putting a chip for an EB Mustang on a GT with the logic of "Well its still a Mustang so it should work right?". No. It will not work.That being said the dyno is now irrelevant for this because its not a comparable vehicle.

Additionally no not all dynos are worth something, especially when the car is not the same car or when the values are skewed.



Where was this diagram? Are you talking about when they overlaid random words on the engine bay? Its not unique to the European car, its not even the same car or close as ours. If they are tapping into the Cam-position sensor I am extremely hesitant about that, its one thing to tell the car to make more boost when it shouldn't but its a whole different degree to start messing with the cam timing tables without a real tune, you are asking for failure and issues down the road. Its only 17whp, but how much TQ? Torque is what moves the car, horsepower is what keeps it going. Don't be fooled by "smoother curves" because anyone can smooth a dyno plot, and anyone can change how a throttle responds (with a tune anyway, I don't know if they're fooling that sensor too).



If you do buy one of these things, be sure to post your results, and not just "i feel like its faster". Post some data.

If you measured up power per liter, the camaro had a much smaller increase in comparison to what it was making stock. Regardless of what displacement makes what power, that fact is IMO telling. It's a larger engine, making far more stock power, yet the stated benefit from the chip is smaller. All i was saying is by the numbers, my guess was Chevy pushed the stock turbo further.

The 2nd point about an insane jump, lets remember this point and come back to it when i write my next post, it's relevant.

3rd point, no i didn't buy the mk8 chip lol, im fairly new to the specifics of tuning and modding but im fairly mechanically minded and fairly good with electronics. Im a techie and usually pick up on things fairly fast. I just hadn't looked up the exact specs of the MK8 but now i have a clear understanding, that's the 1.5L EB that the US isn't getting. The web addy i bought from is a US URL address and they don't have the 1.5L in the list, so it's a US based model, the 1.6L EB we have.

And i have to say i disagree with your definition between tq and HP. HP is a measurement of power with 3 factors, distance/weight/time, it comes from the ability of an average horse (back in the 1800s if i remember) to move 150lbs a distance of 220" in 60 seconds, which is the equiv of 33k LBS of work. That's the equiv of 1 horse power. TQ is a measurement of force at any given moment but says nothing about movement over time. While im very new to the automotive mod scene, im a long time student of physics and i have learned quite a bit over the years.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Oh the suspense...ask soon.

LOL i love this forum.

 

[MRX330]

Do it Do it Do it!!! 🍿

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Oh the suspense...ask soon.

OK here goes. So im guessing i know what you guys will answer with but i'll shoot anyway. I was looking for videos of dyno runs on our MK7 and found one on the MK8. Keep in mind it's rated at a smaller engine size, 1.5L EB. THIS VIDEO the reviewer has a stock MK8, rated at 197BHP (anybody have the figure for WHP?). So, this guy says he took his REVO tuned MK8 to an independent dyno shop, one not owned by Revo or Ford, bc he wanted a more objective run. Unless he's flat out lying, at least he's trying to be objective.

So with a stock engine pumping out 197BHP, the dyno ran it at a peak of 263. Now he mentions the REVO software is a remap, which if i understand is what we call a flash? I can't find enough info on it to know if it's like an AP based install but it's similar to our AP ect in that it rewrites a new ECU map and that's what's important.

So why am i bringing up this car and video? Because it supposedly gained 66hp on stock hardware with nothing but software to increase power and most people here are making that sound insane in our MK7 cars. Now no the fact isn't lost on me that this is a new car, the parts might not be exactly the same but it's a slightly smaller displacement and it's the next gen of our car and very similar in many ways.

So my guess is you guys will say the turbo in that car is some super stock turbo and i don't have enough info to argue against that. But i hope anybody making claims is honest and knows for sure instead of just saying things. Stock MK8 getting 66hp just from software. Yes it's able to tweak all things in the car not just the boost (bc it's ECU software, not just a bost hack), but i could swear i remember Jeff saying even a MK7 stage two AP won't get past 220, and that's with bolt ons. So why the big discrepency?

Our MK7 can only get to 220 with CAI and FMIC and stage 2, but the MK8 with a smaller engine can get to 263 stock with just a reflash? Either that car's turbo is light years ahead of ours, or you guys are wrong about the limits of our MK7 turbo. I am skeptical but wanted to ask this in the form of a question bc i admit i don't actually know the truth. And even if some people think i don't listen, i do.

 

[MRX330]

This is the best thread eveeer 🍔🥃🍺🥜🍩🚬🏆🥨🌮🍳🥓🍞

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

This is the best thread eveeer 🍔🥃🍺🥜🍩🚬🏆🥨🌮🍳🥓🍞

It's kinda like watching a movie like Pitch Black eh? You can't help but rooting for the bad guy.

 

[MRX330]

It's kinda like watching a movie like Pitch Black eh? You can't help but rooting for the bad guy.

I’ve already seen this movie but you haven’t so I don’t want to ruin it for you 👌