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My official RaceChip thread -

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OP
TalkToTheFiST
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Thread Starter #41
On a car that requires accurate sensor inputs to work properly and safely, it seems pretty risky to run a piggyback that modifies said sensor inputs.
As i understand it, it doesn't remove safety limits, the ECU is still the same programming as before. If temps get too high, the car will do what it normally does and reduce output. How is that any different than a flash or using an AP to increase the boost? RC specifically claim the engines will still stick to protective measures, no different than using an AP with more boost.

Now you can say you don't trust them and that's ok, i watched a video of a guy who calls himself an "expert" with automotive and says we shouldn't be messing with ANY ECU programming, including APs. And, they have a 30 day return policy so im ok with it.
 


Clint Beastwood

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#42
As i understand it, it doesn't remove safety limits, the ECU is still the same programming as before. If temps get too high, the car will do what it normally does and reduce output. How is that any different than a flash or using an AP to increase the boost? RC specifically claim the engines will still stick to protective measures, no different than using an AP with more boost.

Now you can say you don't trust them and that's ok, i watched a video of a guy who calls himself an "expert" with automotive and says we shouldn't be messing with ANY ECU programming, including APs. And, they have a 30 day return policy so im ok with it.
You need to actually read the full text of the agreement with racechip wherein they state they are not at all responsible for any deleterious effects. That’s there for a reason.

As far as how it works - they modify what your car sees so it adds timing and/or boost. It isn’t modifying programming, it just changes the sensor values, potentially adding latency if they’re doing it via a micro controller. Just understand what you are doing here in your attempt to take a shortcut - you aren’t making an informed decision you are making an impulsive one. You should be adding an intercooler before the piggyback at the very least. Our cars are under-cooled stock and your chip is potentially going to be modifying sensor data for the safeguards that are there to protect you.

I think a lot of us are waving you off from it because we don’t want to see you brick your car - that’s all. We don’t benefit from preventing a racechip sale, we just don’t want to see another blown motor thread.

I don’t honestly care what you do either way, but I know impulsivity when I see it.
 


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Dpro

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#43
Im not really disagreeing with anything other than the predictions of the chip itself. If i am please show me and i will correct it. I fully agree with you guys, the AP will get me further overall, it has other things like throttle mods ect. It's mandatory for the real leaps forward like bigger/better turbos.

The RaceChip is just a quick shortcut to some real power gains without any long term cost other than $250. I would spend a lot more than that and it would take much longer the other route. There's no guarantee when i'll find an AP and there's no local shops that will install a FMIC. I just wanted something fun up front while im getting the other mods done over time. Again the only thing i disagree on are the skeptics when they say the chip won't work, mind you without any personal experience with it.

It would be different if several people here actually used one on their FIST and could give first hand accounts. But that's not the case, it's just speculation based on nothing. Everything else nearly everybody here has advised, i will do as my next 2 or 3 steps. So no big deal, think of it as me doing exactly as everybody else is except im trying one little experiment most others don't.
Look do what you want. A lot of us come from tuning and playing with other cars over the years. Its not our first Rodeo, Chipping cars with chips has been around since the late 80’s and 90”s aka SuperChips.

There is a reason those faded out and most people in the U. S. are now using Cobb AP’s. It is because in modern cars there are more parameters one can address electronically and they need to be fine tuned for the engine. Its no longer a primitive piggyback a chip on the ECU situation that sometimes did lead to more problems with the persons car.

The advice here is why spend $250 on a chip that for all intensive purposes is a primitive stab at getting more power when you can spend $50-100 more and get an AP. One technically does not need anything else besides that to tune our engines the factory setup is not bad. There are some shortcomings but from what you described yourself they should not be an issue.

No one directly said you must get an intercooler before using an AP. We did advise it was wise as its a known weak point.

I have an AP on my car and am just now getting around to installing my aftermarket intercooler. . I am currently on a stage 2 custom tune with only a crossover pipe and intake tube and ST200 airbox. Nothing else. Intake tube and crossover pipe were $250 for the combo. Just for example.

I also watch the ambient temperature I run the car in and avoid spirited driving in the midday heat. Its either early morning or later evening.

At Octane Academy they limited us to 20 minute runs with cool down periods so as to not heatsoak the intercoolers.

Literally do yourself a favor here and spend your money wisely is all we are suggesting. I know return polcy blah blah blah. Why even waste the time with it. Do it right the first time and don’t have to back track.
 


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#45
Im not really disagreeing with anything other than the predictions of the chip itself. If i am please show me and i will correct it. I fully agree with you guys, the AP will get me further overall, it has other things like throttle mods ect. It's mandatory for the real leaps forward like bigger/better turbos.

The RaceChip is just a quick shortcut to some real power gains without any long term cost other than $250. I would spend a lot more than that and it would take much longer the other route. There's no guarantee when i'll find an AP and there's no local shops that will install a FMIC. I just wanted something fun up front while im getting the other mods done over time. Again the only thing i disagree on are the skeptics when they say the chip won't work, mind you without any personal experience with it.

It would be different if several people here actually used one on their FIST and could give first hand accounts. But that's not the case, it's just speculation based on nothing. Everything else nearly everybody here has advised, i will do as my next 2 or 3 steps. So no big deal, think of it as me doing exactly as everybody else is except im trying one little experiment most others don't.
This car has been around for 5 years now and everyone in your threads has advised to go with the access port here in the US? Why? Because its known to work safely.

Good luck with the chip, I just hope you dont damage your car.
 


jeffreylyon

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#46
Again the only thing i disagree on are the skeptics when they say the chip won't work, mind you without any personal experience with it.
Nobody is saying that. What *I'm* saying is that it won't give you anywhere near the quoted power and MPG improvements. If that is what you're speaking of, at what point do *you* start to become skeptical? 70HP and 35% MPG? 100HP and 50% MPG? Even the most hopeful optimist is going to roll their eyes at some point. My point is that, given a very large body of knowledge, I'm rolling my eyes hard at any of RaceChip's quoted improvements. If RaceChip said 10HP, 15ftlbs and no improvement to MPG I'd shrug my shoulders and say "meh, maybe." But then, of course, they wouldn't have gotten your $250.
 


jeffreylyon

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#47
As i understand it, it doesn't remove safety limits, the ECU is still the same programming as before. If temps get too high, the car will do what it normally does and reduce output. How is that any different than a flash or using an AP to increase the boost? RC specifically claim the engines will still stick to protective measures, no different than using an AP with more boost.
Firstly, @Clint Beastwood nailed it - RC tells you that they're not responsible for any damage. Consider that statement in conjunction with their BS claim of +20% MPG.

Let's say that not only does the RC reduces the reported boost pressure to trick the ECU into building more boost, it also reduces the intake charge temperature in order to richen the mixture. The ECU is happy, thinking that it's running the engine at 21 PSI with a 120º charge temp. but the engine is really at 25 PSI and 150º charge temp. Normally the ECU would pull back on boost and timing to avoid a hot piston but, since the ECU sees a happy engine and you're enjoying the (unhealthy) amount of boost and fueling, you keep your foot in it and the ECU keeps living a lie. The engine starts to knock because the chamber temps are getting really hot so the ECU pulls back on timing but, since Ford engineers know that 21 PSI and 120º change temps are safe, they never programmed the ECU to back off boost even with persistent detonation. The #4 piston gets hotter and weaker, the rings get hotter and tighter and, then, "POP" goes the top of the #4.

I don't think that's going to happen, but such a scenario is certainly possible as is RC's sincere apology and quick referral to the fine print if it does.
 


Clint Beastwood

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#50
OP - the only thing racechip does differently from old school 90’s superchips is that they do it with an adjustable PIC instead of a series of resistors. Several of us *do* have experience with such products, that’s why we feel inclined to warn you. We’re not attacking you personally, we’re often speaking from experience and cautioning you to at least do it as safely as possible, i.e. intercooler first.
 


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#51
What I'm curious about is how the warranty holds up with this. I understand that it's a piggyback and it's technically just sending different signals to the ECM or whatever. But, say your turbo blows and you bring it in under warranty... wouldn't Ford be able to see that the ECM was registering more boost than it should be? OR, does it trick the ECM into thinking it's at like 20 psi when it's really at 24 psi (or whatever). Is that how it works? It just seems like there would be some way to tell from the ECM that it was run beyond the factory limits
 


Hypergram

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#52
What I'm curious about is how the warranty holds up with this. I understand that it's a piggyback and it's technically just sending different signals to the ECM or whatever. But, say your turbo blows and you bring it in under warranty... wouldn't Ford be able to see that the ECM was registering more boost than it should be? OR, does it trick the ECM into thinking it's at like 20 psi when it's really at 24 psi (or whatever). Is that how it works? It just seems like there would be some way to tell from the ECM that it was run beyond the factory limits
People have previously mentioned that it doesn't affect the warranty since the car doesn't even realize it's there. As long as you take it off before you bring it in of course.
 


Hypergram

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#54
That’s dishonest. Pay to play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To be fair Ford corporate is not very friendly when it comes to Accesport tunes. Lots of times they'll find something to void your warranty even though the tune didn't even play a part in a part failure. But yeah, I get it.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #55
Nobody is saying that. What *I'm* saying is that it won't give you anywhere near the quoted power and MPG improvements. If that is what you're speaking of, at what point do *you* start to become skeptical? 70HP and 35% MPG? 100HP and 50% MPG? Even the most hopeful optimist is going to roll their eyes at some point. My point is that, given a very large body of knowledge, I'm rolling my eyes hard at any of RaceChip's quoted improvements. If RaceChip said 10HP, 15ftlbs and no improvement to MPG I'd shrug my shoulders and say "meh, maybe." But then, of course, they wouldn't have gotten your $250.
Not sure where you got those figures. The chip i got claims 37hp and 42tq, and im guessing they are calculating for BHP figures so the numbers look better which means on a dyno what, maybe 20-25whp? I haven't paid mind to the MPG claims and i haven't mentioned that one single time here but others who have used the chips do claim they get better MPG so i reserve an opinion on that till i try it.

I have read people discussing, right here on this forum, people pushing the stock turbos all the way to 28psi without blowing up anything. I spent a couple hours yesterday reading old threads about just that, quite a few people mention running long term anywhere between 26 and 28psi. As i understand it also, if more boost causes heat soak, the car will cut boost down as a precaution measure, which is why you lose power when heat soaked.

This chip does not prevent that boost reduction, it doesn't magically force the turbo to stay at a certain PSI. I probably won't be able to tell you the exact power changes bc i won't likely dyno it but i can time the car before and after and i have already linked others who did dyno for the chip. Im getting a FMIC upgrade within a few months, if i happen to notice heat soak in city driving in the meantime, the chip has 5 levels of boost and i will dial it down.
 


HBEcoBeaST

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#56
OP - the only thing racechip does differently from old school 90’s superchips is that they do it with an adjustable PIC instead of a series of resistors. Several of us *do* have experience with such products, that’s why we feel inclined to warn you. We’re not attacking you personally, we’re often speaking from experience and cautioning you to at least do it as safely as possible, i.e. intercooler first.
coming from the 4.7L trd supercharged world of Toyota Tundras I don't know a single person that blew a motor and wasn't running a SuperChip on that platform.
 


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#57
I'm interested to see how this turns out, we shouldn't discount innovation just because some people "know" it will end poorly. Try it and see but most importantly report back how it goes. Talktothefist is willing to put up with the risk, I don't understand why so many people are trying to dissuade him. Worst that can possibly happen is we get a useful data point on whether Ford will warranty his engine or turbo.

I'd like to see more testing of fringe ideas instead of just following what other people have done. If the chip works out well, maybe the next step could be twin charging
 


jeffreylyon

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#58
Not sure where you got those figures. The chip i got claims 37hp and 42tq, and im guessing they are calculating for BHP figures so the numbers look better which means on a dyno what, maybe 20-25whp? I haven't paid mind to the MPG claims and i haven't mentioned that one single time here but others who have used the chips do claim they get better MPG so i reserve an opinion on that till i try it.

I have read people discussing, right here on this forum, people pushing the stock turbos all the way to 28psi without blowing up anything. I spent a couple hours yesterday reading old threads about just that, quite a few people mention running long term anywhere between 26 and 28psi. As i understand it also, if more boost causes heat soak, the car will cut boost down as a precaution measure, which is why you lose power when heat soaked.

This chip does not prevent that boost reduction, it doesn't magically force the turbo to stay at a certain PSI. I probably won't be able to tell you the exact power changes bc i won't likely dyno it but i can time the car before and after and i have already linked others who did dyno for the chip. Im getting a FMIC upgrade within a few months, if i happen to notice heat soak in city driving in the meantime, the chip has 5 levels of boost and i will dial it down.
Welp - clearly I'm spinning my tires. I think that I'll take the lead of the more wise and walk away.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #59
coming from the 4.7L trd supercharged world of Toyota Tundras I don't know a single person that blew a motor and wasn't running a SuperChip on that platform.
Yep, i saw 3 of them on the way to pick up groceries today..... (insert sarcasm emote). Really guys, these bell curve extremes are true for sure but that's not me. This is my daily driver only and i gas it now and then for fun and that's about it. I mean should i really worry about blowing a piston ring on city roads heading to the market?

And in the very near future i'll be adding a larger FMIC to reduce the chances even further. Seems like mass hysteria here.
 


HBEcoBeaST

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#60
Not sure where you got those figures. The chip i got claims 37hp and 42tq, and im guessing they are calculating for BHP figures so the numbers look better which means on a dyno what, maybe 20-25whp? I haven't paid mind to the MPG claims and i haven't mentioned that one single time here but others who have used the chips do claim they get better MPG so i reserve an opinion on that till i try it.

I have read people discussing, right here on this forum, people pushing the stock turbos all the way to 28psi without blowing up anything. I spent a couple hours yesterday reading old threads about just that, quite a few people mention running long term anywhere between 26 and 28psi. As i understand it also, if more boost causes heat soak, the car will cut boost down as a precaution measure, which is why you lose power when heat soaked.

This chip does not prevent that boost reduction, it doesn't magically force the turbo to stay at a certain PSI. I probably won't be able to tell you the exact power changes bc i won't likely dyno it but i can time the car before and after and i have already linked others who did dyno for the chip. Im getting a FMIC upgrade within a few months, if i happen to notice heat soak in city driving in the meantime, the chip has 5 levels of boost and i will dial it down.
Buddy you need to learn how these chips work. It isn't magic, they tell your ECU that it's creating LESS boost to force your turbo to produce more. They tell your motor it's actually taking in a different amount of air and fuel than it is in order to force it to inject more. It also tells your motor it's running cooler and smoother than it actually is to prevent the ECU from pulling power. The built in safety measures of the ECU kick in when certain boost targets, temperatures and power figures are met, but they won't kick in if the chip is telling the sensors everything is OK when it isn't. To get around this, most "chips" run a pretty conservative change which nets some gains, but nowhere close to what they are claiming. Notice every power gain they give has an asterisk citing it's the *target* goal and that these numbers aren't guaranteed.

Yes these 'chips' will not void your warranty if you take it off since all the ECU will record will be normal running information since the chip fools your car into thinking it's running normal when it's not. THis is what makes the chips dangerous because the car is adjusting for parameters that are not reality.

An AP reflashes your entire ECU and runs a different program using the actual data from the sensors with newly set parameters. The engine's safety parameters are changed, but still there and they will kick in if things go south. The engine is still monitored in real time by the sensors and the ecu adjusts according to actual conditions. It's not simply "adding boost" or "adding timing", it's running a completely different tune and all parameters are adjusted accordingly. It's not fooling your motor into creating more power like a chip is, it's running more efficiently and effectively.

If $250 is your budget and you NEED your warranty, so be it. Understand how these chips work and an AP are entirely different. And please don't think all these power claims RaceChips makes are true and don't believe it is 'safer' for your motor. This is simply not true for the reasons stated above.
 


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