Bad brands for APs ? Do's and do not's?

[danbfree]

While on this subject... I’m thinking about going with Stratified with the AP at some point. I could request boost limiting his tune to 23-24 or whatever I feel comfortable with. Would that not solve any issues dealing with higher boost pressure? Obviously, I will make less power but that’s not the most important thing for me. Smooth power delivery and traction are.

23-24 is basically full boost, anything higher is just a target that is achieved for a millisecond. Dizzy makes more power with a max target boost 2psu lower because it responds better to a more realistic requested max boost.

That said, yes, selecting the lower boost option for 1st-2nd for what you're looking for, whatever that number actually is, will be a good option and still be far more power than stock.

 

[danbfree]

While on this subject... I’m thinking about going with Stratified with the AP at some point. I could request boost limiting his tune to 23-24 or whatever I feel comfortable with. Would that not solve any issues dealing with higher boost pressure? Obviously, I will make less power but that’s not the most important thing for me. Smooth power delivery and traction are.

I forgot to add, while Stratified tunes are generally safe, I personally have some issues with them even though I respect the hell out of Alex and for his help with my issues, I still strongly prefer Dizzy. Jason's tune is by far smoother as a DD and makes even a bit more torque. But some people like how racey/twitchy Stratified tunes are and they do make some cool mild pops and gurgles without a silly option for the crazy ones and he does smartly ramp up his fan speeds a bit sooner too for a little better thermal control, but nothing too amazing. But it does come down to how Stratified tunes seem to want to accelerate the car a little even when keeping the throttle at a steady light throttle, I had to get used to it when I first got mine before I had heard of Dizzy and again, no disrespect to Alex, but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have bothered spending my money on his tune separately (I got my AP used) and jus went with Dizzy to start with, although his new awesome smooth tune did just come out Halloween '18.

 

[Ford ST]

That silly option equals pure joy. I love crackle pop boom. Probably why I'm obsessed with the Jaguar F-Type especially the SVR. Best sounding exhaust ever.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[danbfree]

That silly option equals pure joy. I love crackle pop boom. Probably why I'm obsessed with the Jaguar F-Type especially the SVR. Best sounding exhaust ever.

Hehe, to each their own then, but having a glasspack brings out the natural ones and I happen to find that to be enough... you should see all back and forth between the 2 sides of crackles and pops tunes in the FB groups, it's pretty funny!

 

[Phishy]

If the OP wants to pony up for a new AP Strat is the place to buy it. Right now or maybe always, not sure, it comes with a free flash tune for $550. I ordered mine yesterday. $570 shipped with a few add-ons for me. I wanted an AP anyway and now I get to get to try the feel of their tuning style for free.

 

[Mikey456]

I forgot to add, while Stratified tunes are generally safe, I personally have some issues with them even though I respect the hell out of Alex and for his help with my issues, I still strongly prefer Dizzy. Jason's tune is by far smoother as a DD and makes even a bit more torque. But some people like how racey/twitchy Stratified tunes are and they do make some cool mild pops and gurgles without a silly option for the crazy ones and he does smartly ramp up his fan speeds a bit sooner too for a little better thermal control, but nothing too amazing. But it does come down to how Stratified tunes seem to want to accelerate the car a little even when keeping the throttle at a steady light throttle, I had to get used to it when I first got mine before I had heard of Dizzy and again, no disrespect to Alex, but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have bothered spending my money on his tune separately (I got my AP used) and jus went with Dizzy to start with, although his new awesome smooth tune did just come out Halloween '18.

I guess my next question would be about the tuners proprietary traction control. What gets you out of a tight second gear bend without too much wheel spin. I know the easy answer. The drivers right foot. But boost limiting or a tuners traction control would be more helpful too. Right? And if so, how much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danbfree]

I guess my next question would be about the tuners proprietary traction control. What gets you out of a tight second gear bend without too much wheel spin. I know the easy answer. The drivers right foot. But boost limiting or a tuners traction control would be more helpful too. Right? And if so, how much?

You know, I paid for the Stratified version, which is described as a refined vs. of the Cobb, but I just didn't find it to be that different than Cobb, maybe slightly different settings, they both work overall exactly the same way. The Stratified default setting of 1 is apparently just about exactly the same as Cobb at 4, I had Jason set mine in my Dizzy tune at 3, so I get a decent bit of wheel spin before it kicks in at all and then it only pulls timing just enough to help keep traction. Ford uses fuel cut and is very abrupt while Stratified/Cobb is very smooth and hardly perceptible.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

You know, I paid for the Stratified version, which is described as a refined vs. of the Cobb, but I just didn't find it to be that different than Cobb, maybe slightly different settings, they both work overall exactly the same way. The Stratified default setting of 1 is apparently just about exactly the same as Cobb at 4, I had Jason set mine in my Dizzy tune at 3, so I get a decent bit of wheel spin before it kicks in at all and then it only pulls timing just enough to help keep traction. Ford uses fuel cut and is very abrupt while Stratified/Cobb is very smooth and hardly perceptible.

Is this a feature that is part of a Stratified OTS tune or is it only for custom? I ask bc i assume my e30 flash is the equivalent of an OTS and in 1 and 2, the tires spin like nobody's business, even with the ESC button left on (the one down low by the shifter). So i figured either the tune disabled that, or it's just very weak.

I used to turn it off fully when running stock (no brake vectoring or throttle control) bc i figured it was reducing power here or there and the stock tune was pretty lackluster, now there's so much power i was curious if ESC would help. Im with Mikey, i don't mind using the human ESC and just controlling my foot but im just curious of what's possible with features.

 

[danbfree]

Is this a feature that is part of a Stratified OTS tune or is it only for custom? I ask bc i assume my e30 flash is the equivalent of an OTS and in 1 and 2, the tires spin like nobody's business, even with the ESC button left on (the one down low by the shifter). So i figured either the tune disabled that, or it's just very weak.

I used to turn it off fully when running stock (no brake vectoring or throttle control) bc i figured it was reducing power here or there and the stock tune was pretty lackluster, now there's so much power i was curious if ESC would help. Im with Mikey, i don't mind using the human ESC and just controlling my foot but im just curious of what's possible with features.

Their version is order-able with Stratified, I think you mean "flash" and custom... but the same general system is already on the AP for free and any tuner can set it at whatever setting you want by default, take a look in the settings while your car is running and you can see what defaults are and change it up for just that ignition cycle... The stock TC only kicks in when you are achieving full slip, and unless you are disabling it to Sport mode or ESC off, it's on every time by default. I have NEVER ran with it completely off, in sport mode TC is off and stability control only kicks in an an absolutely emergency anyway. Otherwise brake vectoring is always on in any mode, because it's actually good and helps, unlike on a base model/non-ST car where it's super intrusive, it's subtle and actually helps on our cars.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Their version is order-able with Stratified, I think you mean "flash" and custom... but the same general system is already on the AP for free and any tuner can set it at whatever setting you want by default, take a look in the settings while your car is running and you can see what defaults are and change it up for just that ignition cycle... The stock TC only kicks in when you are achieving full slip, and unless you are disabling it to Sport mode or ESC off, it's on every time by default. I have NEVER ran with it completely off, in sport mode TC is off and stability control only kicks in an an absolutely emergency anyway. Otherwise brake vectoring is always on in any mode, because it's actually good and helps, unlike on a base model/non-ST car where it's super intrusive, it's subtle and actually helps on our cars.

Ahh ok tyvm for the info, i'll take a gander in my AP later today. Maybe it can help make 2nd gear a little less tire hungry, although it has sharpened my clutch control 😀

 

[danbfree]

Ahh ok tyvm for the info, i'll take a gander in my AP later today. Maybe it can help make 2nd gear a little less tire hungry, although it has sharpened my clutch control 😀

Yep, traction control toggle to 1 for on, then for the ratio in the separate setting I'd try 3 to start out with... I still say if you are stuck with the very much instant torque of a tuned stock turbo then there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the traction control options. But also, when you order the tune you also have the option to limit torque in 1st-2nd, so that's another reason to consider that. But also, they don't describe how much torque they cut off, would be nice if they described a little better.... anyway, try it out and if you like it you can ask Stratified to turn whatever setting you want on by default, but you will always have to still put it in to Sport mode for it to work or the Ford system is always on by default no matter what you may have turned on or off in your AP.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Yep, traction control toggle to 1 for on, then for the ratio in the separate setting I'd try 3 to start out with... I still say if you are stuck with the very much instant torque of a tuned stock turbo then there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the traction control options. But also, when you order the tune you also have the option to limit torque in 1st-2nd, so that's another reason to consider that. But also, they don't describe how much torque they cut off, would be nice if they described a little better.... anyway, try it out and if you like it you can ask Stratified to turn whatever setting you want on by default, but you will always have to still put it in to Sport mode for it to work or the Ford system is always on by default no matter what you may have turned on or off in your AP.

Okay just so I understand you, you are saying the Ford traction control if it is on it overrides the AP traction control? So to make sure the AP traction control works, always turn the Ford in sport mode or off completely?

 

[danbfree]

Okay just so I understand you, you are saying the Ford traction control if it is on it overrides the AP traction control? So to make sure the AP traction control works, always turn the Ford in sport mode or off completely?

Yes, EVERY time you start the car the Ford TC takes over no matter what you have set in your AP so you have to go to Sport mode manually every time... only exception is if you search and find the gadget someone is selling here that will put you into sport or track mode automatically.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Yes, EVERY time you start the car the Ford TC takes over no matter what you have set in your AP so you have to go to Sport mode manually every time... only exception is if you search and find the gadget someone is selling here that will put you into sport or track mode automatically.

Ok i appreciate the heads up, not a problem to turn it off per ignition.

 

[Dpro]

unlike on a base model/non-ST car where it's super intrusive, it's subtle and actually helps on our cars.

AH excuse me but Base or non ST Fiesta’s do not have traction control or Torque Vectoring. Oh and yes they are instrusive when you are doing serious canyon carving or track use. I always turn mine off because of it and rarely run sport mode. The less nannies in the way the more I can drive the car. Also if you are running high hp with a LSD the torque vectoring can start interacting with it in weird ways. This is of course In the 350hp range Performance Blue commented on it in one of his threads.

 

[danbfree]

AH excuse me but Base or non ST Fiesta’s do not have traction control or Torque Vectoring. Oh and yes they are instrusive when you are doing serious canyon carving or track use. I always turn mine off because of it and rarely run sport mode. The less nannies in the way the more I can drive the car. Also if you are running high hp with a LSD the torque vectoring can start interacting with it in weird ways. This is of course In the 350hp range Performance Blue commented on it in one of his threads.

The base Focus does and it was WAY more intrusive than I see on the FiST... Also, unless you disable your ABS system, you can't completely disable the torque vectoring anyway... With an LSD, it would likely in and of itself actually help prevent the torque vectoring from kicking in by keeping differences in wheel speed between the 2 front wheels inline with what's expected. I remember reading that thread a while back and I thought his issues may have been related to which type of LSD he chose? I know that Quaiffe and MFactory are different types, and as long as you don't freewheel, the MFactory style was preferred?

 

[Dpro]

The base Focus does and it was WAY more intrusive than I see on the FiST... Also, unless you disable your ABS system, you can't completely disable the torque vectoring anyway... With an LSD, it would likely in and of itself actually help prevent the torque vectoring from kicking in by keeping differences in wheel speed between the 2 front wheels inline with what's expected. I remember reading that thread a while back and I thought his issues may have been related to which type of LSD he chose? I know that Quaiffe and MFactory are different types, and as long as you don't freewheel, the MFactory style was preferred?

Ah no it does not I owned a 2012 Focus no traction control or TQ vectoring lol. Come on Dan do better research before posting.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Ah no it does not I owned a 2012 Focus no traction control or TQ vectoring lol. Come on Dan do better research before posting.

If i may intercede, i heard the only ST with TQ vectoring is the RS, i read that the STs have brake vectoring, clearly a different mechanism. I don't know if this helps the disagreement here, maybe my wording was misread in post #28. Regardless i'll be shutting it down at all times now, i don't like the idea of applying brakes when it's not my foot doing the braking.

 

[danbfree]

Ah no it does not I owned a 2012 Focus no traction control or TQ vectoring lol. Come on Dan do better research before posting.

Sorry man, you're just wrong, not gonna do your homework for you. You can't possibly be serious in that you think it doesn't even have traction control much less brake torque vectoring I'd LITERALLY bet my life on? Edit: OK, I double checked after I posted willing to eat crow but knew I wouldn't have to and I'm right, just web search "2012 Focus torque vectoring". I mean, dude, it was big news at the time! I remember for fun I'd intentionally induce a total understeer in wet weather and it would totally dial me back in line instead of continuing to plow...

 

[danbfree]

If i may intercede, i heard the only ST with TQ vectoring is the RS, i read that the STs have brake vectoring, clearly a different mechanism. I don't know if this helps the disagreement here, maybe my wording was misread in post #28. Regardless i'll be shutting it down at all times now, i don't like the idea of applying brakes when it's not my foot doing the braking.

Brake torque vectoring is standard and it can't be turned off. Sport mode defeats traction control but leaves stability control enabled and Track/Race mode whatever (don't use it) also disables all but emergency stability control, while brake torque vectoring is ALWAYS on... and it does actually help, you just can't tell the way it's implemented in a FiST.