ANY higher LINEAR rate lowering springs out there with MORE rate than the Swift Spec Rs??

[M-Sport fan]

Like the title says I am asking if anyone has found any regular strut fit (NOT a coil over setup) 3/4" to 1" lowering springs which are LINEAR rate, NOT progressive rate, which have a higher spring rate than even the Swifts?

I can accept a spring like the Swifts with their 'tender spring' coils on the top, but do not want an actual progressive rate spring (they would be going over/with Koni Sport dampers).

Thanks in advance.

IF these just do not exist anywhere, I am going for the inverted M-Sport R1 Bilstein coil over setup with their tarmac spec springs on them, and Team O'Neil's upgraded, rally spec top mounts.

 

[koozy]

Surprised you’re asking since you read pretty much everything on this forum and I know you seen them because you’ve commented on them. I’ve posted on numerous occasions, ST Springs. And for the clueless I’m not referring to the stock st springs, but Suspension Techniques.


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[M-Sport fan]

Surprised you’re asking since you read pretty much everything on this forum and I know you seen them because you’ve commented on them. I’ve posted on numerous occasions, ST Springs. And for the clueless I’m not referring to the stock st springs, but Suspension Techniques.


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OK, thanks (getting old, maybe I forgot about ever seeing these ).

Do you remember the stated rates offhand (i.e.; are they a significantly higher rate than the Swifts?), or can you direct me to that thread?

 

[koozy]

245lbs. fr, 250lbs. rr

Here are the ST Springs next to the OE '14 springs.

Rear

Front

Rear shot loaded on the ground with Bilstein B8

Here are swift springs with B8's.

ST springs with B8's.

 

[Truth in Ruin]

ST Springs- 1.2 inch (30mm) drop in front, 0.6 inch (15mm) drop in rear.

The most aggressive/sporty springs on the market. Although they may not pair with the stock dampers as well as the Swifts as a result.

 

[Mikey456]

Like the title says I am asking if anyone has found any regular strut fit (NOT a coil over setup) 3/4" to 1" lowering springs which are LINEAR rate, NOT progressive rate, which have a higher spring rate than even the Swifts?

I can accept a spring like the Swifts with their 'tender spring' coils on the bottom, but do not want an actual progressive rate spring (they would be going over/with Koni Sport dampers).

I did not know the Swift springs were a progressive rate spring. That’s news to me.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I did not know the Swift springs were a progressive rate spring. That’s news to me.

They are NOT an actual progressive rate spring!

Those bunched coils at the top of the Swifts merely act the same way a tender/'helper' spring does on a stacked coil over setup to keep them from losing contact with the perches, and falling out on a 'full droop' suspension travel scenario.

 

[M-Sport fan]

245lbs. fr, 250lbs. rr

Here are the ST Springs next to the OE '14 springs.

Rear

Front

Rear shot loaded on the ground with Bilstein B8

Here are swift springs with B8's.

ST springs with B8's.

Given Bilstein's rep for raising the car's static ride height up a bit over other dampers (like Koni Sports/etc.), with the same exact springs used, due to the way they gas charge their dampers, I am surprised it does not sit higher in that pic above.

 

[koozy]

technically dampers don't determine ride height, springs do. I've personally validated this with my FiST.

What you see is what it is, lowered 30mm fr., 15mm rr.

 

[Plainrt]

technically dampers don't determine ride height, springs do. I've personally validated this with my FiST.

What you see is what it is, lowered 30mm fr., 15mm rr.

Technically they can play a factor.

 

[koozy]

Technically they can play a factor.

example?

 

[M-Sport fan]

My '89 GTI 16V sat slightly higher than stock static ride height with the factory springs, and Bilstein HDs, way back in the day.


I called ST/KW today, and they claimed that those ST springs ARE progressive rate, despite yes fully looking like they have to be linear rate by the coil spacing.

The 'tech' there claimed that NOTHING they make for our cars is linear rate, including that spring set, but he had to ask someone else there, so yeah, very well could be dead wrong.

I already knew that ALL of both the KW and ST coil over setups for our rides are progressive rate springs with dampers valved ONLY FOR such.

 

[koozy]

My '89 GTI 16V sat slightly higher than stock static ride height with the factory springs, and Bilstein HDs, way back in the day.


I called ST/KW today, and they claimed that those ST springs ARE progressive rate, despite yes fully looking like they have to be linear rate by the coil spacing.

The 'tech' there claimed that NOTHING they make for our cars is linear rate, including that spring set, but he had to ask someone else there, so yeah, very well could be dead wrong.

I already knew that ALL of both the KW and ST coil over setups for our rides are progressive rate springs with dampers valved ONLY FOR such.

I also had Bilsteins on my A2 Jette GLI 16v which Aaron Neuman of Neuspeed worked on. He out fitted some race springs before he went to market with them while using my car as a test back in ~1992.

I'm all well familiar with people claiming shocks raise their cars, but it's usually improper installation, lack of logic and understanding that leads to presumptions. Bilsteins have spring perches on some of the shocks allowing the user to affect ride height. The FiST B8's do not have these perches.

Shocks/dampers are designed to dampen the ride on raise or lower it, that's the springs job. If people insist on believing otherwise, then go right ahead. I'm not going to invest my time to convince them. It's not worth my time. At best a blown shock/damper may actually affect the height by lowering the car if the spring rate is weak, but a shock is not going to raise a car.

 

[Plainrt]

My degassed konis sit lower with factory spring..........

 

[KKaWing]

My degassed konis sit lower with factory spring..........

+1 gas pressure does have a small effect on ride height.

 

[Ford ST]

+1 gas pressure does have a small effect on ride height.

I put some performance-oriented gas shocks on my Dad's truck, and the first thing he said is it sits higher in the back.

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[KKaWing]

I put some performance-oriented gas shocks on my Dad's truck, and the first thing he said is it sits higher in the back.

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Yeah, I remember some E90 forum post said the same thing after they installed B6's. The flyin' miata posts also mentioned their springs sit lower koni's when compared to the OE bilsteins some of the NDs have.

 

[Dpro]

lol

My '89 GTI 16V sat slightly higher than stock static ride height with the factory springs, and Bilstein HDs, way back in the day.


I called ST/KW today, and they claimed that those ST springs ARE progressive rate, despite yes fully looking like they have to be linear rate by the coil spacing.

The 'tech' there claimed that NOTHING they make for our cars is linear rate, including that spring set, but he had to ask someone else there, so yeah, very well could be dead wrong.

I already knew that ALL of both the KW and ST coil over setups for our rides are progressive rate springs with dampers valved ONLY FOR such.

There is a reason for this to quote Hyperco’s website

“For grand touring and high-performance driving, progressive rate springs offer great ride quality and superior handling due to the roll control offered by the springs. This is especially true if a reduced ride height is desired. The initial light rate provides a great ride, while the increased secondary rate assures a load carrying capability unavailable if lowering with a linear rate spring is attempted. Most high-performance driving involves a fixed vehicle package with only one or two passengers and very limited extra weight. This is the ideal situation for progressive rate springs.”


I know you seem to want a desire linear rate springs but even Hyperco suggests for most of the appliciations we tend to use our cars for and whatnot progressive tends to be a better choice.

Linear has its place but usually in areas where there is less suspension travel which is needed for a progresive spring to function properly.
Setups with linear springs i.e. short stroke low ride height short travel coilovers are designed and setup up that way in part due to the fact that a progressive spring would not have the travel needed to function properly.

Another reason coilovers quite often use linear springs is, the benefit of the linear spring is being able to calculate load and rate easily at different events which allows one to tune per course.
Though most people driving FiST’s will not be doing this as its basically racing teams that are serious with gobs of money and traveling track to track.
Even people autocrossing don’t always go this far. Quite often its a setup a suspension for the season and forget situation.

So with that respect I have to ask are you putting to much thought into I need a linear spring situation.

 

[RubenZZZ]

I think some cars sit "higher" after new shock install compared to the old shocks because the old shocks were probably blown and the springs may have been weak.

I know i noticed it on my old fox bodies.

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[M-Sport fan]

lol

There is a reason for this to quote Hyperco’s website

“For grand touring and high-performance driving, progressive rate springs offer great ride quality and superior handling due to the roll control offered by the springs. This is especially true if a reduced ride height is desired. The initial light rate provides a great ride, while the increased secondary rate assures a load carrying capability unavailable if lowering with a linear rate spring is attempted. Most high-performance driving involves a fixed vehicle package with only one or two passengers and very limited extra weight. This is the ideal situation for progressive rate springs.”


I know you seem to want a desire linear rate springs but even Hyperco suggests for most of the appliciations we tend to use our cars for and whatnot progressive tends to be a better choice.

Linear has its place but usually in areas where there is less suspension travel which is needed for a progresive spring to function properly.
Setups with linear springs i.e. short stroke low ride height short travel coilovers are designed and setup up that way in part due to the fact that a progressive spring would not have the travel needed to function properly.

Another reason coilovers quite often use linear springs is, the benefit of the linear spring is being able to calculate load and rate easily at different events which allows one to tune per course.
Though most people driving FiST’s will not be doing this as its basically racing teams that are serious with gobs of money and traveling track to track.
Even people autocrossing don’t always go this far. Quite often its a setup a suspension for the season and forget situation.

So with that respect I have to ask are you putting to much thought into I need a linear spring situation.

OK, I fully agree with the above, but, I do NOT carry more than one passenger in mine, EVER (the back seats are out, permanently if I can help it!), nor ever use it to haul anything heavy.

I have always heard, for 40+ years, from most suspension experts, that linear rate springs are MUCH MORE accurate over the full suspension travel stroke, and that there are NO mid-corner/apex rate change 'surprises' from them at all, unlike progressive rate springs.

I am leaning more and more to the pretty much indestructible M-Sport R1 rally spec, Bilstein Motorsport coil over setup (linear all around), despite it's higher than most co$t.

Ironically, last time I checked when I had a coil over setup on my 4th gen Z28, Hyperco themselves did not make/offer ANY actual progressive rate springs, unless one counts their 'tender/helper' coil over spring options as a progressive rate.