Fiesta ST vs Veloster N

[Ford ST]

I would never have a dry DCT ever. Ford screwed up big time with the one they made.

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[Intuit]

Yeah people abuse the hell of them sport motorcycle clutches. You hear it all the time. Nearly all of them are wet.

 

[FiSTerMr]

I would never have a dry DCT ever. Ford screwed up big time with the one they made.

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I drive a lot of rentals for work, and every Focus/Fiesta has a slipping dct trans.

 

[Ford ST]

I drive a lot of rentals for work, and every Focus/Fiesta has a slipping dct trans.

One of the worst decisions Ford ever made.

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[danbfree]

I drive a lot of rentals for work, and every Focus/Fiesta has a slipping dct trans.

That trans is in a league of it's own... Ford forced Getrag to rush that out, but when it's working right it's actually nice for enthusiasts, I had a '13 Focus HB and it had to be rebuilt at 18k but the seals and software revisions improved with time... But the problem is that it's total non-enthusiasts that drive those cars, if you just give it like one full second before going back to gas off brake (time it like you are working a clutch in your mind) then it's just like the VW ones that are widely praised, just an acquired method to drive them smoothly, WHEN they are working right, and that's the problem. Many of them don't but that doesn't mean others are that messed up either, I'd love to have a proper DCT eventually in my next car, better than a slush box for sure.

 

[Ford ST]

A DCT is perfectly fine just get a wet clutch. The biggest thing about a wet clutch is just change the fluid.

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[Dpro]

That trans is in a league of it's own... Ford forced Getrag to rush that out, but when it's working right it's actually nice for enthusiasts, I had a '13 Focus HB and it had to be rebuilt at 18k but the seals and software revisions improved with time... But the problem is that it's total non-enthusiasts that drive those cars, if you just give it like one full second before going back to gas off brake (time it like you are working a clutch in your mind) then it's just like the VW ones that are widely praised, just an acquired method to drive them smoothly, WHEN they are working right, and that's the problem. Many of them don't but that doesn't mean others are that messed up either, I'd love to have a proper DCT eventually in my next car, better than a slush box for sure.

Ya my 2012 Focus had a DCT and I could drive it smooth as hell. Trans had gone through a clutch change with the previous owner and software revisions and it drove great. Though it did act more like a manual than an auto whic is part of what has always freaked people out about those trans. Like when you stop on a hill in drive and the clutches disengaged allowing you to roll back if you did not tap the gas to set hill assist.
Or the fact that ya sometimes in drive you hit the gas hard and the clutches would slip before engaging. Thaf was definitely a software actuator issue.
Funny thing is Mazda uses the same trans in the 3 with hardly any issues , have experienced hill rollback at stop in drive on one. Though the rest of the time it was fine. I beleive a lot of it was Mazda spent a little more time with the software than Ford did and also learned from watching Ford. They split in 2013 and I have no experience with a 2012 3 but did drive a 2015 for a bit.

 

[danbfree]

Ya my 2012 Focus had a DCT and I could drive it smooth as hell. Trans had gone through a clutch change with the previous owner and software revisions and it drove great. Though it did act more like a manual than an auto whic is part of what has always freaked people out about those trans. Like when you stop on a hill in drive and the clutches disengaged allowing you to roll back if you did not tap the gas to set hill assist.
Or the fact that ya sometimes in drive you hit the gas hard and the clutches would slip before engaging. Thaf was definitely a software actuator issue.
Funny thing is Mazda uses the same trans in the 3 with hardly any issues , have experienced hill rollback at stop in drive on one. Though the rest of the time it was fine. I beleive a lot of it was Mazda spent a little more time with the software than Ford did and also learned from watching Ford. They split in 2013 and I have no experience with a 2012 3 but did drive a 2015 for a bit.

Well, the rollback thing was one of the first things they fixed, but they had major issues with the software and seals mostly, and yeah that did improve a LOT the last few years but I had no idea Mazda used it too... and yeah Ford and Mazda "divorced" in 2012 but still funny seeing the Scion iA/Mazda2 and the CX-3 actually have the same platform as us!

 

[Ford ST]

Ya my 2012 Focus had a DCT and I could drive it smooth as hell. Trans had gone through a clutch change with the previous owner and software revisions and it drove great. Though it did act more like a manual than an auto whic is part of what has always freaked people out about those trans. Like when you stop on a hill in drive and the clutches disengaged allowing you to roll back if you did not tap the gas to set hill assist.
Or the fact that ya sometimes in drive you hit the gas hard and the clutches would slip before engaging. Thaf was definitely a software actuator issue.
Funny thing is Mazda uses the same trans in the 3 with hardly any issues , have experienced hill rollback at stop in drive on one. Though the rest of the time it was fine. I beleive a lot of it was Mazda spent a little more time with the software than Ford did and also learned from watching Ford. They split in 2013 and I have no experience with a 2012 3 but did drive a 2015 for a bit.

Not to start an argument but Mazda never used a dual-clutch transmission. A simple Google search is all you need. They did end up using a automatic torque converter transmission with a clutch pack part of the torque converter that allowed variable percentages of engagement.

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[Dpro]

Not to start an argument but Mazda never used a dual-clutch transmission. A simple Google search is all you need. They did end up using a automatic torque converter transmission with a clutch pack part of the torque converter that allowed variable percentages of engagement.

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Well if it is not it certainly acts completely like the DCT as I have experienced hill rollback with one in long term driving and people have also reported jerky shifting.
The Mazda 3 drivetrain was shared with the Focus even after the split the skyactive 2 liter looks exactly like the Ford Focus 2 liter right down to alternator placement and design. Plus the 3 came with flappy paddle shifters which are found commonly only on DCT trans.
Now perhaps I am wrong but off casual observations if it acts like a duck looks like a duck most likely is a duck . Though again I could be wrong

P.S. not wanting to start an argument is oxymoron here as you commented anyways. Lol if you really did not want to start a discussion toward or argument as you speak you would not have spoken up im the first place.

Oh and no offense but I tend to call it as I see it.

 

[Ford ST]

Well if it is not it certainly acts completely like the DCT as I have experienced hill rollback with one in long term driving and people have also reported jerky shifting.
The Mazda 3 drivetrain was shared with the Focus even after the split the skyactive 2 liter looks exactly like the Ford Focus 2 liter right down to alternator placement and design. Plus the 3 came with flappy paddle shifters which are found only on DCT trans.
I am going by first hand analysis and could be wrong but Google does not always correctly answer questions like this.

P.S. not wanting to start an argument is oxymoron here as you commented anyways. Lol if you really did not want to start a discussion toward or argument as you speak you would not have spoken up im the first place.

Oh and no offense but I tend to call it as I see it.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news...sgs-redefines-automatic-transmissions-instead
My Wife has a 2011 Mazda 3 2.5 hatchback.
I have a liking towards Mazda, and I constantly research cars. I promise you it does not use a DCT transmission. I understand the partnership they had with Ford. It uses a special torque converter and that's why it feels the way it does.
I say not trying to start an argument because I'm not trying to come off as a dick just saying the information is incorrect.

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[Dpro]

https://www.motorauthority.com/news...sgs-redefines-automatic-transmissions-instead
My Wife has a 2011 Mazda 3 2.5 hatchback.
I have a liking towards Mazda, and I constantly research cars. I promise you it does not use a DCT transmission. I understand the partnership they had with Ford.

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Cool, I like them too, but I already said I could be wrong. I also would say that seeing how their trans acted one could assume it was as it showed the exact traits of a DCT . So ya convo done.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Man trans tech for cars just hasn't received as much or any attention from engineers like the automatics have. If they did, we'd all be running some variation of sequential trans that allows clutchless shifting.

...and possibly even without the clanging and banging of race sequentials upon engagement, and also without the necessity of rebuilding them every 5K miles...

 

[danbfree]

Well if it is not it certainly acts completely like the DCT as I have experienced hill rollback with one in long term driving and people have also reported jerky shifting.
The Mazda 3 drivetrain was shared with the Focus even after the split the skyactive 2 liter looks exactly like the Ford Focus 2 liter right down to alternator placement and design. Plus the 3 came with flappy paddle shifters which are found commonly only on DCT trans.
Now perhaps I am wrong but off casual observations if it acts like a duck looks like a duck most likely is a duck . Though again I could be wrong

P.S. not wanting to start an argument is oxymoron here as you commented anyways. Lol if you really did not want to start a discussion toward or argument as you speak you would not have spoken up im the first place.

Oh and no offense but I tend to call it as I see it.

Nobody is perfect, but indeed Mazda used a very small and efficient torque converter for their Sky-Activ automatics and paddle shifters are found equally common on slush box and DCT auto's... Anyway, it's OK to be wrong without researching much first as long as you are open-minded, no biggie with me...

And I remember now, those that appear to be paddle shifters on the VT-N do just change the drive modes, etc, very strange placement if you ask me, but a strange and ugly car to begin with so there's that, hehe...

 

[Intuit]

I drive a lot of rentals for work, and every Focus/Fiesta has a slipping dct trans.

Wet clutches have a much smoother slip. It could be slipping on shifts just like the dry DCTs and just aren't realizing it.

One of Ford's miscalculations may have been, putting too much stock in the opinions of the engineers and enthusiasts as oppose to the general consumer who's never driven a manual, ridden in a manual, and right and wrong, are comparing it to a traditional torque-converter based transmission and are literally looking for anything to complain about.

...and possibly even without the clanging and banging of race sequentials upon engagement, and also without the necessity of rebuilding them every 5K miles...

Motorcycle has a sequential that allows clutchless shifting. No problems over 50k of street. Do have to be mindful of being fully clutchless at a slowpoke "acceleration" rate, particularly on the larger ratio jump of the 1-2 shift. Throw enough time and/or money at it, the engineers can (and have) addressed and even "solved" some complex challenges. I put "solved" in quotes, only because there's always room for improvement on anything.

 

[Dpro]

Wet clutches have a much smoother slip. It could be slipping on shifts just like the dry DCTs and just aren't realizing it.

One of Ford's miscalculations may have been, putting too much stock in the opinions of the engineers and enthusiasts as oppose to the general consumer who's never driven a manual, ridden in a manual, and right and wrong, are comparing it to a traditional torque-converter based transmission and are literally looking for anything to complain about.

Oh this was a huge part of the problem, it was like lets go to this cool DCT tech but no one instricted sales people that the cars trans was going to act more like a manual and less like an auto. People bought the cars used to drving Torque converter autos. Let your foot off the gas and brake and it came to a stop in drive and held position. Wereas DCT ws electronic actuators controlling actual clutches which engaged and disengaged.

If the public had ben taught about it a lot less of them would have whined and complained. I used my Focus for rideshare for 2 years before recently selling it, put 40k on it drove great because I knew what to expect and how to drive it. Person that bought it from me came from driving sticks as well.

 

[Intuit]

Taking the more unusual expression of "weight to power" below.
So 13.92 pounds per 1 hp
and 13.58 pounds per 1 lb-ft torque.
Lower numbers are better.

Fiesta ST
197hp/202tq ft-lbs
2,743 lbs
W2P = 13.92/13.58

Focus ST
252/270
3,241 lbs
W2P = 12.86/12.00

Velocitor N
275/260
3,106 lbs
W2P = 11.29/11.95

Focus RS
350/350
3,470 lbs
W2P = 9.91/9.91



Sources:
https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/makes/ford/fiesta/2017/specifications/st/
https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/makes/ford/focus/2018/specifications/st/
https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/makes/hyundai/veloster/2019/specifications/n/
https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/makes/ford/focus/2018/specifications/rs/


RS sounds fun with the best W2P. But that weight...

 

[M-Sport fan]

RS sounds fun with the best W2P. But that weight...

If I owned one, I'd pull weight out of it, and add power-problem solved!

 

[CSM]

I looked at one Saturday (Veloster N w/ PP). Dealer wouldn't let me take it for a spin, but I have to say I was impressed with seeing it in person and the interior design. Much nicer car than the FiST inside IMO.

I would consider one but will need to test drive first. Something tells me it's not gonna be as much of a blast to drive as my hybrid Turbo Fiesta but I could be wrong

 

[OneFord]

A guy at work has a veloster n, I checked it out and thought it was garbage in my opinion. Kind of felt bad for the guy he was asking me what he needed to do to make it more fun to drive.

I started looking into the aftermarket scene for him just out of curiosity and the options we very scarce. Sucks to be him