OBD2 code P219A (Please point me in the right direction)

[mk_not_a_robot]

Hello!

I recently bought a 2015 Fiesta ST off of a "trustworthy" dealership.
It seems like it is in good shape, 47000 km, No accidents etc.

However, there's that damn P219A code being thrown.
As you can imagine I'm not thrilled about my brand new car throwing that error.
The error started after the 24hr period that Alberta law lets you return the purchase (so my dads dealer friend says)

I've reset the code multiple times now, it is persistent.

I was hoping you guys/girls could point me in the right direction.

First, some info!

This seems independent of how I drive it.
I reset the code, and waited for the engine to warm up, then drove it hard again.
That does not immediately set the code.

In each case, I am driving it for 30min + before the Check engine light goes on.
But it does each time.

Non stock parts:


- Cold Air intake (there is a plug that looks like it used to connect to a sensor in the stock air intake, it is dangling there.
- Performance chip. (Ill talk more about that further down).
- No Cat!?!? / Wide Exhaust.

Since it is the P219A error, all of these are suspect.



How it behaves:

It runs fine. It has some power to it, and idles smoothly.
On start up, the engine does jump around a little bit by 50 - 150 rpm while it settles down to 1000 rpm idle.
I haven't burnt a full tank, but I've Added a full can of sea foam when I got to a 1/2 tank.
I filled it back up with premium (prob should have just burnt the first tank).
So far I'm at 350km, and 45 - 48% of the tank left.
The car does not backfire, even under hard driving.
It has 3 -4 times since I've bought it, but it seems like the turbo barking (hard on the gas, braking, small pop sound from the exhaust).

Also, I sprayed a full canister of sea foam into the air intake (from that hose that connects to the intake manifold just ahead of the intake ports themselves).
Aside from a minor performance change, and a major smoke show, that did not get rid of the error either.


What the shops says:

I went to a shop and they hooked my car to their computer and did a diagnostic, they didn't find anything wrong.
The injectors are good, fuel pressure is good, apparently the ignition system has no misfires, and is timed correctly.
The sensors appear to not be the problem either (computer didn't find anything).



On the sensors, this leads me to my first question:
Could the sensors be faulty anyways?

Since there is no cat, I would assume the likeliest is the sensor down stream from the "cat".
Unburnt fuel might cause the air fuel mix fault (maybe?).

Is there another sensor before the catalytic converter?

Also, the performance chip.
I was doing some reading on-line, and I noticed that most chips interface with the Engine control unit, and modify the fuel air ratio for more precise tuning .....
So that stood out like a sore thumb to me.


So. I'd like to remove that chip, and see if that gets rid of the P219A code.
Here's the problem: I have no idea where the "chip" is.
It was noted in the dealerships inspection, but makes no note of where it is located.
I don't want to talk to them, because I think they'll try to sucker me into bringing it back into their shop for $100+ or something.

And as you can deduce, it's not one of those ones that fits onto the OBD2 connector.

First question about the chip:
Is it safe to remove it?

If I disconnect the battery, and remove the chip, reconnect the battery, and start the car, will there be zero ill effects of doing that (Minus the performance decrease)?
If you guys need to know what kind of chip it is before answering that question, please let me know which locations the chip could be, Ill find it and take pictures.


Id much rather have a car that isn't wearing itself out due to the previous owner not setting it up correctly than having extra power, and then killing the engine (I paid 15k for this car).

Also, if anyone wants to trade a stock air intake for a oiled cold air intake let me know.
Actually, if anyone wants to trade a no cat exhaust system for a stock 2015 exhaust let me know .

Finally, there is a chance that I bought a lemon(or maybe a lime?), and that there is engine damage.
Given that there is no smoke out the back, it idles fine, and the fuel economy is "normal" is this a likely scenario?


My last car had a check engine light for a slow O2 sensor. It had 320,000 km on it. So I didn't care.
My Fiesta has 47,000 km on it.
I do care.


Can anyone help me get going on this mystery? I would like to have some peace of mind with my car.


Thanks!

 

[marc89gti]

First of all there is no “chip” to remove unless you remove the PCM “Power Control Module” which is not possible. If the car has a tune and after market exhaust then to put stock tune back on would most likely require a trip to a Ford dealer. You mentioned something about spraying sea foam into the intake, bad idea with turbo charged engines as bits of carbon can come off intake valves a potentially damage the turbine blades on the turbo itself. As for the P219A I believe that has something to do with Bank 1 Air/Fuel Ratio Imbalance which could be caused by a failure of on of the oxygen sensors. There is one before and after the catalytic converter.

Edit: just re-read your post with no cat exhaust you are probably missing one or both oxygen sensors which will cause issues if you don’t have the correct tune. If you buy a COBB Accessport with a custom tune with the hardware you have. Would look at maybe do that or like you said put a stock exhaust back on with cat downpipe.

Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p219a
Copyright OBD-Codes.com


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[mk_not_a_robot]

Thanks for the reply.

I looked into the meaning of the code already, so I know what that is.

I am confused by your reply though.
There absolutely are performance enhancing devices/computers that can be attached to a Fiesta.
When I say "chip" it may not literally be a chip (like what you'd plug into a PC motherboard) but rather a module that gets plugged into a plug somewhere.

You mentioned a "tune", that is a modification to the PCM in terms of its programming?

I looked inside my engine compartment, but there is so much going on in there I'm not sure where to look.
I do know the location of the control unit, or the "PCM" as you mentioned, but there doesn't seem to be anything that I can point out that would be a mod.

I just read your edit, I do think I should install a stock exhaust, especially since I smell gasoline in the exhaust.
I didn't smell the exhaust after I was done driving it 20 min ago. Ill try that tomorrow.

Edit: when I say "smell" the exhaust, I don't mean shoving my face in the tailpipe.


So it is these modules, with the wires that plug in somewhere that I am looking for.
Since unplugging something is free (unless it causes some ignition problems) that was the first step I wanted to take.

I am looking into the exhaust system replacement after I replace the O2 sensors, unless they are gone as you say.

 

[marc89gti]

When you load a tune into this this car it is generally done one of two ways, one with a Ford dealer programmer, could be a handheld unit or PC with Ford software or 2nd a Cobb Accessport which is the general way everyone with FiST or FoST or FoRS doing any kind of tuning. Pre OBD2 cars before 1996 could have a chip installed on top of the factory chip but no one that I’m aware does anything like this anymore


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[METZGER]

There is that silly "transformer" mod/chip that plugs in for fiesta st's bit I would never use it... Hope you sort it out..!

Did you see the mods before you paid for the car?

Do you know anyone that has an almost or fully stock fiesta ST? Then you could park side by side and see what's been changed easily if you're not familiar with these cars..

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[jmrtsus]

How does a dealer legally sell a car with the emissions disconnected? Don't know Canadian laws but a used car dealer in most US states would have to repair it or take it back. In my location you cannot register a car with a code showing and law says they have to give you a car that can be titled. Talk to your Consumer affairs state or Canadian government. Bet it is the same there. In most US states used car laws are better than new car laws. I have returned one with a bad engine.....good luck!

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

I'm not too sure.

I was looking at the laws for this in my Province, and I can't find much there.

At the time of purchase, there was not codes being thrown.

It was a stupid purchase, and I'm sure they were laughing about it afterwards.
In terms of the cat being removed. They noted it in there inspection, its on paper.

Ill continue to look into this, as that might be my way in, as they can't claim that I made that change by myself.

Also, METZGER, I don't know anyone with a stock ST.

 

[marc89gti]

Sometimes dealers have 30 day return policy, may be worth talking to them about this. Also dealers may repair issues that come up in the first 30 days too.


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[mk_not_a_robot]

So, as an update, I bought a matching cat with both upstream and downstream O2 sensors.
They're stock ones.

I also refilled my car with The Highest Octane fuel I could find, and I dumped a bottle of Octane booster in there as well.

I have been driving my car to and from work. I have been keeping the rpm below 3000, and driving easy on the car.
I reset the code on the car and it hasn't come back.
I did look at the results of the last incident, and the rpm was at 3000+ and the timing was at 12.5.

So I figure this is actually related to pushing the car.
I'm going to drive carefully until I install the new cat and sensors.

I have another question for all of you though.


marc89gti said that the car could have been modified by a tuning device, or by altering the ECU directly using a computer.
If the previous owner used a plugged in device, would the ECU be likely remapped as well?

Or is that redundant?

I am going to ask the dealership if the previous owner actually had a device that plugs into the car, or if they actually re programmed the ECU.
If they say they had a plugged in device, then would the odds of the ECU being re programmed be very low?


Thanks

 

[jmrtsus]

So, as an update, I bought a matching cat with both upstream and downstream O2 sensors.
They're stock ones.

I also refilled my car with The Highest Octane fuel I could find, and I dumped a bottle of Octane booster in there as well.

I have been driving my car to and from work. I have been keeping the rpm below 3000, and driving easy on the car.
I reset the code on the car and it hasn't come back.
I did look at the results of the last incident, and the rpm was at 3000+ and the timing was at 12.5.

So I figure this is actually related to pushing the car.
I'm going to drive carefully until I install the new cat and sensors.

I have another question for all of you though.


marc89gti said that the car could have been modified by a tuning device, or by altering the ECU directly using a computer.
If the previous owner used a plugged in device, would the ECU be likely remapped as well?

Or is that redundant?

I am going to ask the dealership if the previous owner actually had a device that plugs into the car, or if they actually re programmed the ECU.
If they say they had a plugged in device, then would the odds of the ECU being re programmed be very low?


Thanks

The device you are talking is not a "chip" it is a cheap plugin resistor that changes sensor parameters and fakes out the ECU. It plugs inline with existing cables from what I read. Look up the info on the web. It does not alter the original software like a Mountune, Cobb and others.

It could have been flashed with a "tune", does it have an aftermarket FMIC? Does the turbo bolts look like they have been removed? Both could be signs of a tune. If after you replace the Cat and intake back to stock you still get a code you may have to take it to a dealer to see if it has been flashed and restore it to stock. You will see many people take off and sell performance equipment on the forum before trading or selling a FiST.

I fear that this will become more common on used ST's as modified one are less desirable, especially cheap used ones at independant used car lots. Typically a used car lot attached to a new car dealer will not sell cars that have been modified due to possible emissions or reliability problems. On the other hand some independants will, like the one I worked at, sell you anything that starts, rolls and has brakes on at least 2 wheels!

Get your parts on and with luck that will fix the code, if not I see an expensive dealer visit in your future. As to your "device" go to a Ford dealers part site (Levittown Ford is good) and look at the parts diagrams to see if you can find a short cable with connectors in your car where none is shown on the diagrams.

Good luck!

BTW, per your manual and my many years of experience, your car does not need ANY additives and many do more harm than good. Your car runs best on 93 octane, mine with the Mountune MP215 tune likes non-ethanol better if you can find it. It will run on 87 but threatened to leave me on the side of the road each time I accelerated with 87. Have never done it again.

 

[LaserWhisperer]

Take some pics of your intake setup. You mentioned a connector which is just dangling, get a pic of that too.

I had a turbo transformer for a hot minute, which was a piggyback device like you're describing. Perhaps you have one of these?

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

Oh I get that it is not a chip, but a module that plugs into the car.

I have also been reading that the ECU itself can be re - programmed.

The Turbo has not been changed as far as I can tell, the only changes there is the missing cat.

I put in the really high octane gas because of how high octane gas resists engine knock.


There does not appear to be a after market front mounted inter cooler.

I am going to ask the dealership that sold me the car if it was a module, or if it was a "flash" / reprogram.

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

Take some pics of your intake setup. You mentioned a connector which is just dangling, get a pic of that too.

I had a turbo transformer for a hot minute, which was a piggyback device like you're describing. Perhaps you have one of these?

Yeah, I can take a bunch of pictures later today. Ill post them.

 

[D1JL]

This is from the Ford Service Manual.


P219A - Bank 1 Air/Fuel Ratio Imbalance

Description: The air to fuel imbalance monitor is designed to detect differences in the air to fuel ratio between cylinders per engine bank. This DTC sets when the air to fuel ratio difference per cylinder is greater than a calculated amount.
Possible Causes:
Leaking or contaminated fuel injectors
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
Leaking EVAP purge valve
Exhaust or intake air system leaks
Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system
Positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is leaking
Ignition system
Incorrectly seated engine oil dipstick, tube or oil fill cap
Base engine concerns

Diagnostic Aids: One or more EGR passages may be blocked or partially blocked.



Dave

 

[danbfree]

So, as an update, I bought a matching cat with both upstream and downstream O2 sensors.
They're stock ones.

I also refilled my car with The Highest Octane fuel I could find, and I dumped a bottle of Octane booster in there as well.

I have been driving my car to and from work. I have been keeping the rpm below 3000, and driving easy on the car.
I reset the code on the car and it hasn't come back.
I did look at the results of the last incident, and the rpm was at 3000+ and the timing was at 12.5.

So I figure this is actually related to pushing the car.
I'm going to drive carefully until I install the new cat and sensors.

I have another question for all of you though.


marc89gti said that the car could have been modified by a tuning device, or by altering the ECU directly using a computer.
If the previous owner used a plugged in device, would the ECU be likely remapped as well?

Or is that redundant?

I am going to ask the dealership if the previous owner actually had a device that plugs into the car, or if they actually re programmed the ECU.
If they say they had a plugged in device, then would the odds of the ECU being re programmed be very low?


Thanks

So yes, likely it was tuned over the OBDII port, that's how they all work these days and the device is not required to kept plugged in, it flashed the programming and is done. Yes, the ECU is what is programmed for the engine, any additional terms are redundant... Ignore BS about not using Seafoam, there is NO way that it can cause THAT big of a chunk of carbon to break off, especially with that low of KM's on the car. You just wouldn't want to do it at 150k KM if it's never been done before... But yes, the tunes need to have the O2 disabled if running catless to avoid the CEL/code and I think it's dumb to run catless on a stock turbo that will add very little power just to pollute away anyway. BUT your code is for the stiff dangling from the intake, you have to get that sorted out, the '14-'15's actually have a simpler setup than newer ones, there is no reason that stuff shouldn't be hooked up unless they used a generic intake. It's not a major problem driving hard, the PCV is simply not hooked up, any FiST specific intake will have the connection, there is no need to install the cat if you don't want to since the code if for the PCV. You need either a stock intake or depending how generic and all one piece the intake is you might be able to just get a crossover pipe to connect to the filter and a proper FiST crossover has the PCV connection.

So, the main tuning device is a Cobb AccessPort. They are sold for $500 new but can be found used and personally I'd get one and use the free conservative Stage 1 tune that comes with it to get you back at a good starting point instead of trying to take it in to the Ford dealer that won't flash it for free back to stock anyway.

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

I think Ill try to get a stock intake then.

Also, I found a pick and pull that has a 2011 Fiesta. I might take the ECU and the Intake if they are still there.

Ill still take pictures when I get home.


I also have to look up if 2011 is compatible with a 2015 for those parts.


The dealership got back to me and that's exactly what they said. the ECU has been re programmed using one of those modules.

 

[D1JL]

Also, I found a pick and pull that has a 2011 Fiesta. I might take the ECU and the Intake if they are still there.

Not the same parts and will not work.



Dave

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

Yeah ...

I might just buy a intake, and ECU.

There are some online that seems cheap.

A lot of the ECUs seem to go for $300, as far as I've seen.
The Intakes appear to be less than that.

unless they are sketchy, Im not sure if those a regular prices.

 

[danbfree]

Yeah ...

I might just buy a intake, and ECU.

There are some online that seems cheap.

A lot of the ECUs seem to go for $300, as far as I've seen.
The Intakes appear to be less than that.

unless they are sketchy, Im not sure if those a regular prices.

Do you have a picture of the intake now? You might be bale to get away with keeping part of it, depending... can you at least say is it all one piece from filter to turbo or multiple? Also, since you are going to want to tune anyway, still recommend an AP you can find used for ~$350 instead of paying almost as much just to be stock again... if you REALLY just want to stay stock (which will get old quick, trust me) then pay the dealership maybe $100 to reflash what you have, maybe make the dealer that sold you the car without a factory tune pay for it.

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

Do you have a picture of the intake now? You might be bale to get away with keeping part of it, depending... can you at least say is it all one piece from filter to turbo or multiple? Also, since you are going to want to tune anyway, still recommend an AP you can find used for ~$350 instead of paying almost as much just to be stock again... if you REALLY just want to stay stock (which will get old quick, trust me) then pay the dealership maybe $100 to reflash what you have, maybe make the dealer that sold you the car without a factory tune pay for it.

I'm still at work. Where I live it's 2:30 atm.


It is a cold intake that is about 2 feet long. After that it is the stock tubing all the way to the turbo, and stock to the intake manifold.


I would just go to a dealership for that. I'm concerned that they will tell me that my warranty is void.

Since it is a 2015, it should have the warranty until the end of the year, or end of year 2019.

I still haven't looked into that yet.