Cheapest way to get +50HP?

[MeeLee]

If the mention that the forum is going downhill because of 'posts like these' are a reference to someone asking for ways to get a budget sports car more budget, I don't know.
I personally find it ingenious, how the ST costs half the price of a modern Veloster N, and yet has almost the same acceleration to a certain extend.
And parts are cheap (like someone mentioned).
Having someone ask how to improve performance on a dime, is very fitting for these kind (or any kind) of forum out there.
Anyone who could, would pay less, if it gives the same results, no?

A lot of threads have been written in how to improve performance, but imho few have been written in how to even further reduce cost, or improve on a budget.
If you have plenty of $$$ to spare, nothing prevents you for getting a few thousand dollar upgrade.
But most of us have mortgages, families, and work fulltime, and not much left over in a month to spend on car upgrades, or we would have gotten that AMG, Porsche, or Corvette.

Threads like these may not be what people have been doing in the past, however they are very relevant in today's society, and a lot more members benefit from it too!

I bet no one complained when someone came out with a cheaper intercooler at half the price, yet nearly the same performance as the more expensive models?
All it took was just one person coining the idea, and another to execute a workable solution.

I think it's genius, to try to find ways to improve performance, with the only limitation to keep using 87 octane.
So thumbs up for this thread!

I like the idea of a heavier wastegate spring, to run at higher boost, and the tune.
However, the tune more than likely is just running the engine more stoic (instead of rich) at heavy acceleration.

I like to elaborate on those ideas, and think they are progress and may differ from the plain old 'E85, bigger turbo and intercooler and tune'-threads; and I think this thread definitely has a place on this forum!
Thanks!

 

[Jerickson88]

From what I saw, the ST is not maxed out. It has much room for improvement.
Perhaps on 87 octane it is, but the engine has room for improvement.
I think it's worth researching.

I think the modern (2019) ST is maxed out, as it has only 3 cylinders, and yet makes more HP and Torque than the 4 cylinder version.
I think it'd be harder to get more power out of a modern (European 2019) ST than an older 4 cylinder model.

What he’s getting at is the car is maxed out from the showroom, stock turbo. Retune and you unlock the remaining potential. Bolt ons have minuscule effect on the stock induction..

 

[RubenZZZ]

From what I saw, the ST is not maxed out. It has much room for improvement.
Perhaps on 87 octane it is, but the engine has room for improvement.
I think it's worth researching.

I think the modern (2019) ST is maxed out, as it has only 3 cylinders, and yet makes more HP and Torque than the 4 cylinder version.
I think it'd be harder to get more power out of a modern (European 2019) ST than an older 4 cylinder model.

True. I'm running a Stratified 91 octane tune. Car has so much more bottom-end response (factory tunes it out). Even with the tune and some aftermarket performance bits, the car only makes about 200whp. I'm missing a bigger intercooler and e85 to make any more power.

If you want more power, gotta get a bigger turbo.

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[MeeLee]

True. I'm running a Stratified 91 octane tune. Car has so much more bottom-end response (factory tunes it out). Even with the tune and some aftermarket performance bits, the car only makes about 200whp. I'm missing a bigger intercooler and e85 to make any more power.

If you want more power, gotta get a bigger turbo.

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Thanks for the advise.
I would think the tune probably just corrects the A/F ratio, and removes the boost limit on first 2 gears (puts the car in track mode performance)
I actually do appreciate the mild tune in standard mode.
It's hard to slide or do a burnout in the rain.
In sports mode, that restriction is not there.
From a safety point of view, when it rains a lot here, sometimes I put the car in standard mode, just to be on the safe side.
But I have at times, used 'sports mode' in the rain, and enjoyed the car accelerating diagonally, due to the front wheels spinning

I don't often put the car in 'track mode'. I've noticed there is a possibility to spin out of control in turns; where as in sports mode it's pretty much impossible to lose control (even in sharp turns, at higher speeds).

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Thanks for the advise.
I would think the tune probably just corrects the A/F ratio, and removes the boost on first 2 gears (puts the car in track mode performance)
I actually do appreciate the mild tune in standard mode.
It's hard to slide or do a burnout in the rain.
In sports mode, that restriction is not there.
From a safety point of view, when it rains a lot here, sometimes I put the car in standard mode, just to be on the safe side.
But I have at times, used 'sports mode' in the rain, and enjoyed the car accelerating diagonally, due to the front wheels spinning

I don't often put the car in 'track mode'. I've noticed there is a possibility to spin out of control in turns; where as in sports mode it's pretty much impossible to lose control (even in sharp turns, at higher speeds).

Do they have a Young adult tune? I think you should get that instead.

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[jeff]

Yes you can get nearly +50HP on the stock turbo...dynos are around 180, ethanol tune with bolt ons is 220, so there's 80% of it....however the power is mostly useless, it might improve your quarter mile by a few tenths of a second but the car isn't that much faster, rather only has all that useless power in 1st and 2nd gear that's been tuned back in, which is pointless unless that floats your boat.

Or spend money and upgrade the turbo, you'll get power where you can actually use it, though all that said without AWD this car is severely limited as I have found. My one gripe about my turbo upgrade in retrospect is that even with all the new power I still can't use it all because of traction issues, no amount of bracing or LSD will fix that, the only solution is super wide tires and fender flares but this isn't Gymkhana and I'm not Ken Block I am only jeff and this is my daily driver so that's not gonna happen.

With all due respect, adding 50 horsepower is the wrong goal for this car. I think a better question for someone on a budget for mods is WHAT ARE THE BEST MODS I CAN GET FOR $XXXX? Ask that question, you'll get some great conversation.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Yes you can get nearly +50HP on the stock turbo...dynos are around 180, ethanol tune with bolt ons is 220, so there's 80% of it....however the power is mostly useless, it might improve your quarter mile by a few tenths of a second but the car isn't that much faster, rather only has all that useless power in 1st and 2nd gear that's been tuned back in, which is pointless unless that floats your boat.

Or spend money and upgrade the turbo, you'll get power where you can actually use it, though all that said without AWD this car is severely limited as I have found. My one gripe about my turbo upgrade in retrospect is that even with all the new power I still can't use it all because of traction issues, no amount of bracing or LSD will fix that, the only solution is super wide tires and fender flares but this isn't Gymkhana and I'm not Ken Block I am only jeff and this is my daily driver so that's not gonna happen.

With all due respect, adding 50 horsepower is the wrong goal for this car. I think a better question for someone on a budget for mods is WHAT ARE THE BEST MODS I CAN GET FOR $XXXX? Ask that question, you'll get some great conversation.

We should start a thread with who has dumped the most amount of money into their cars for mods and have a poll!

 

[jeffreylyon]

Thanks for the advise.
I would think the tune probably just corrects the A/F ratio, and removes the boost on first 2 gears (puts the car in track mode performance)
I actually do appreciate the mild tune in standard mode.
It's hard to slide or do a burnout in the rain.
In sports mode, that restriction is not there.
From a safety point of view, when it rains a lot here, sometimes I put the car in standard mode, just to be on the safe side.
But I have at times, used 'sports mode' in the rain, and enjoyed the car accelerating diagonally, due to the front wheels spinning

I don't often put the car in 'track mode'. I've noticed there is a possibility to spin out of control in turns; where as in sports mode it's pretty much impossible to lose control (even in sharp turns, at higher speeds).

I don't think that you're trying to troll, but you know so little about your car and speak with such conviction that it's really frustrating for those of us who've actually spent time going over earlier threads to learn about our cars and even more so for those that have spent time and money to experiment.

You're wrong about what a tune does and the effect of the traction control button. If your idea of fun is spinning the wheels in the rain then more power to you, you're a cheap date. Don't tune (you want to run 87 gas), don't change your turbo (because 87 gas), don't change your intercooler (you're not going to notice a difference without a tune and/or a long pull), and, for crying out loud, don't pay someone to attempt an LPG or NG conversation (cuz that's just a dumb thing to do to a performance car). Watch the forum for a part-out and grab a set of lighter wheels. You'll notice a difference in acceleration (as long as you can keep the wheels planted) and handling. You don't seem to believe in physics, so Google fast-ford-wheel-test.pdf and **read** all of it. Other than that, you're too octane and knowledge limited to do any good to your car.

 

[Ford ST]

Absolutely agree I have spent a lot of time reading and learning as much as I possibly can about the car, the mods the pros and cons of different brands. Respect is earned it's not given just try to listen to what people are saying process it before asking silly nonsense questions.

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[Jerickson88]

Absolutely agree I have spent a lot of time reading and learning as much as I possibly can about the car, the mods the pros and cons of different brands. Respect is earned it's not given just try to listen to what people are saying process it before asking silly nonsense questions.

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This brings me to this point:

Used AP3 $375
Torque Solutions RMM or AWR RMM $115
Depo FMIC $320
Stratified e30 map $100(?)

$910 give or take.. this will put you past a “stage 3” car and you’ll still have a paper filter. This will be my path.

 

[danbfree]

Sounds great!

I really care about my Dollars $$$.
I'm wondering if there's a difference between E30 created with 3Gal of E85 and 9gal of 87 octane, vs 2 gal of E85 and 10 gal of 91 octane?
The price difference is about $5 per tank.

Would love to see a tune for plain 87 octane, and a sports tune on the cheaper 'E30'.

More like E35 with 4 gallons e85 and 8 gallons of 87 octane will get you to 93 octane overall and you are fine, believe it or not other experienced members... The stock turbo can be maxed out so easily just from the added cooling effect of ethanol that the octane of the fuel itself performs like that of much higher rated. If you really think e30 power comes from 96 octane, you are simply wrong... You take your average e30 tune and run the e35 mix I stated (with at least Top Tier for the regular) and I guarantee you will still see the OAR pegged at -1.00 and absolutely minimal knock and negative corrections, just like if you spent more money on premium... NOW, for those running any kind of turbo upgrade even an old little x27/Cyborg, whatever, then yeah, those are all custom tuned and you can take advantage of the higher octane for more power there. But after trying this myself and talking with the tuner who admitted he does this sometimes too, yep e35 with regular works fine on e30 tunes! Now, I still don't do this, because I'm not THAT cheap, but just an example of how ethanol's charge cooling itself is the main part of e30 running better than just 93 e10 pump fuel...

From what I saw, the ST is not maxed out. It has much room for improvement.
Perhaps on 87 octane it is, but the engine has room for improvement.
I think it's worth researching.

I think the modern (2019) ST is maxed out, as it has only 3 cylinders, and yet makes more HP and Torque than the 4 cylinder version.
I think it'd be harder to get more power out of a modern (European 2019) ST than an older 4 cylinder model.

The whole argument of the 3 cylinder must be maxed out is knee-jerk nonsense... it's only 0.1 liter smaller overall (notice you never mentioned that?) and the engine shape/size is conducive to actually handling MORE power... everyone HAS to get over the cylinder count thing, that is SO last year when everyone assumed that when the 3 cyl was announced and we all should know better by now.

 

[danbfree]

Sounds great!

I really care about my Dollars $$$.
I'm wondering if there's a difference between E30 created with 3Gal of E85 and 9gal of 87 octane, vs 2 gal of E85 and 10 gal of 91 octane?
The price difference is about $5 per tank.

Would love to see a tune for plain 87 octane, and a sports tune on the cheaper 'E30'.

I think the stock rims are pretty lightweight already!
Especially compared to the stock 15" rims on my older toyota (steel).

Yes you can get nearly +50HP on the stock turbo...dynos are around 180, ethanol tune with bolt ons is 220, so there's 80% of it....however the power is mostly useless, it might improve your quarter mile by a few tenths of a second but the car isn't that much faster, rather only has all that useless power in 1st and 2nd gear that's been tuned back in, which is pointless unless that floats your boat.

Or spend money and upgrade the turbo, you'll get power where you can actually use it, though all that said without AWD this car is severely limited as I have found. My one gripe about my turbo upgrade in retrospect is that even with all the new power I still can't use it all because of traction issues, no amount of bracing or LSD will fix that, the only solution is super wide tires and fender flares but this isn't Gymkhana and I'm not Ken Block I am only jeff and this is my daily driver so that's not gonna happen.

With all due respect, adding 50 horsepower is the wrong goal for this car. I think a better question for someone on a budget for mods is WHAT ARE THE BEST MODS I CAN GET FOR $XXXX? Ask that question, you'll get some great conversation.

This brings me to this point:

Used AP3 $375
Torque Solutions RMM or AWR RMM $115
Depo FMIC $320
Stratified e30 map $100(?)

$910 give or take.. this will put you past a “stage 3” car and you’ll still have a paper filter. This will be my path.

More like ~170whp completely stock, literally just an e30 tune alone will get you close to 220whp so cheapest way is AP with e30 tune and absolutely nothing else at all.

NOW, you are REALLY going to want an RMM, traction bar and passenger side engine mount insert too, but just a used AP (~$350) and get a Dizzy tune when he has the $75 for both pump and e30 special at almost every holiday and you're set!

 

[Jerickson88]

More like ~170whp completely stock, literally just an e30 tune alone will get you close to 220whp so cheapest way is AP with e30 tune and absolutely nothing else at all.

NOW, you are REALLY going to want an RMM, traction bar and passenger side engine mount insert too, but just a used AP (~$350) and get a Dizzy tune when he has the $75 for both pump and e30 special at almost every holiday and you're set!

I’ll keep that in mind. I only have 1 or 2 ethanol stations in close proximity, so I’d probably sit on 15 gallons. I pass one for work in my van, it’s like 50 miles away but I pass it daily. I’d be on 93 for sure.

 

[MeeLee]

The whole argument of the 3 cylinder must be maxed out is knee-jerk nonsense... it's only 0.1 liter smaller overall (notice you never mentioned that?) and the engine shape/size is conducive to actually handling MORE power... everyone HAS to get over the cylinder count thing, that is SO last year when everyone assumed that when the 3 cyl was announced and we all should know better by now.

Not sure,
I haven't read up much about how 2 identical engines (one 4 cylinder, the other 3 cylinder) handle under increased stress.
The 3 cylinder is expected to work better (less valves and mechanical drag of an extra cylinder, better exhaust scavenging, ...).
But how they would react under load, I don't know.

 

[danbfree]

I’ll keep that in mind. I only have 1 or 2 ethanol stations in close proximity, so I’d probably sit on 15 gallons. I pass one for work in my van, it’s like 50 miles away but I pass it daily. I’d be on 93 for sure.

Just saying, once you go e30 you won't want to go back, if you pass an e85 station daily you're a perfect candidate... And again, since Dizzy has those deals it never hurts. Now, compared to Stratified, Dizzy is quite conservative with his 93 tune so I'm glad I have both.

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[Jerickson88]

Just saying, once you go e30 you won't want to go back, if you pass an e85 station daily you're a perfect candidate... And again, since Dizzy has those deals it never hurts. Now, compared to Stratified, Dizzy is quite conservative with his 93 tune so I'm glad I have both.

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I pass it daily in my company van. But I can always stop for a squirt! What’s the ratio? I wonder if I could get it and premix for other fill ups.. take a few 5 gallon containers and have it ready mixed. The 93 would be beneficial for traveling though.

 

[danbfree]

I pass it daily in my company van. But I can always stop for a squirt! What’s the ratio? I wonder if I could get it and premix for other fill ups.. take a few 5 gallon containers and have it ready mixed. The 93 would be beneficial for traveling though.

If your area tests at a full 85% then it would be 3 gallons to go with 9 gallons, 3 to 1... but, because it IS so easy to make max power anyway there is plenty of lee-way in the tune to be a little off. For state of Alabama the e85 percentage drops only one "class" and should be only a little less, around 80% for the colder months and back to the roughly 85% for the warmer months. It's hard to actually find the stupid chart and the percentages, I'd ask at the station if they know what percentage it is or use the less than $5 Briggs and Stratton ethanol percentage tester as they are allowed to have as little as 51% now but that I've heard is mainly in the mountain states, not the south. Bottom-line, you'll just need 3-4 gallons and does not have to be exactly e30.

 

[KnockOff]

I always thought 30% was 3 and 7. 10 gallons 3 of witch are e85. Guess I might be wrong

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[Dpro]

I always thought 30% was 3 and 7. 10 gallons 3 of witch are e85. Guess I might be wrong

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Except technically we have a 12 gallon tank. Even at 7-3 your ratio is a bit off as 3.33 is a third of 10 . So at a fill of 12 on a dead empty tank you would use 4 gallons of E85

 

[danbfree]

I always thought 30% was 3 and 7. 10 gallons 3 of witch are e85. Guess I might be wrong

Between the pump fuel already being 10% ethanol and really just 25-35% final ethanol working within the tune parameters, it's not 30% of e85 but around 30% is why it's called an e30 tune... You can use this calculator HERE. so 3 and 9= e28.8 which Jason of Dizzy says to use that 3 to 1 ratio... I'm in a non-self serve state and when regular was put in mine I went down and put 4 gallons of e85 in once there was room for an e35/93 octane final mix and tried my e30 tune for the first time and it rocked, after Jason himself said it was OK and he does it sometimes. It's easy to max out the stock turbo without the need for high octane either with the cooling charge of ethanol making the fuels octane act even higher.