How early is too early for big turbo?

[denveryettie]

Does anyone have e any experience with the whoosh downpipe? I have their intercooler and was stunned by the quality at the price point. How is the DP?

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Never seen a complaint about it. And they have catted ones now too. Im looking at moving to their catless right now as I am attempting to squeeze every last bit of juice I can out of the stock snail before I upgrade. I gotta save for it, but the price point of the downpipe is fantastic in comparison to some others. And Whoosh downpipe looks like 3in all the way through rather than a reduction to 2.5 at the flange like a lot of them. Since I am running GReddys exhaust I want the full 3in all the way from turbo to the exit. Whoosh's parts are all fantastic quality.

 

[jeff]

Dude, I like you, and I like your car, but do some research before spouting nonsense.

The warranty is only, AND CAN ONLY be voided on the part that is being replaced. A manufacturer CANNOT void the ENTIRE WARRANTY on the car because you swapped in an aftermarket exhaust, or lowering springs, or ANY other part. They can't do it!!!

Meh, I never said nor implied that the entire warranty would be voided.

The thought being communicated here is that if one adds an aftermarket turbo, or any engine component that strains the engine/drivetrain, it can void the warranty on the engine and/or drivetrain.

What you are saying makes no sense. If I replace my exhaust and the warranty "only covers the part being replaced" as you say, a warranty is of no use on a part that is not even on my car and will not break because it is sitting in the garage. This makes no sense.

It is very plain that tampering with parts that work with the engine can damage the engine, and therefore void the warranty on the engine, even if the engine itself was untouched.

***

Back to the OP, I understand about wanting a car that's untouched. In my case I compromised - I got a fully loaded car with Recaros/Nav/grey wheels/sunroof etc. that stickered for $26k for $19k with only 4,000 miles. It was in 99.9% mint condition and I saved $7k. And it smelled new! So I got the "untouched" feel but saved the money. Still I waited awhile to upgrade the turbo. The warranty was part of it. I added bolt-ons because they are easy to remove if it needs a warranty repair. But I waited on the turbo because it's not as simple as a few nuts and bolts like an intake or exhaust. It was nice to wait - I got to experience the car adding handling mods and power mods in 10 and 20 hp increments. This made the process more enjoyable for me rather than if I had gone from 200 to 300hp immediately. I'm glad I waited, I have enjoyed every step of the process.

Good luck with your build.

 

[danbfree]

Man, all this talk about "voiding warranty" on every car forum I'm ever a member of drives me crazy.

Look up the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act people!!!

The manufacturer HAS TO PROVE your aftermarket/modified parts caused a part to fail, it's on THEM to prove it. Swapping out a turbo would ONLY void the warranty on the factory turbo, along with any other FACTORY part that was replaced during the swap, unless the dealer/manufacturer can PROVE that the modded part caused other parts to fail.

SEMA has a whole team of lawyers that will help people fight these cases, and they almost ALWAYS win.

Meh, I never said nor implied that the entire warranty would be voided.

The thought being communicated here is that if one adds an aftermarket turbo, or any engine component that strains the engine/drivetrain, it can void the warranty on the engine and/or drivetrain.

What you are saying makes no sense. If I replace my exhaust and the warranty "only covers the part being replaced" as you say, a warranty is of no use on a part that is not even on my car and will not break because it is sitting in the garage. This makes no sense.

It is very plain that tampering with parts that work with the engine can damage the engine, and therefore void the warranty on the engine, even if the engine itself was untouched.
.

You are both making very valid points, so let me throw this out there just to add to the discussion, and this is what I call the "Ford service guide on trying to find ways to void your warranty"... Now, I'm quite familiar with Magnusson-Moss, but it looks like Ford feels they have the balls to void your warranty for almost anything, it's actually pretty sad, but that's how the corporate world goes, pleasing shareholders is their first priority... Anyway, I highlighted the quote about SEMA having lawyers as I didn't know that, and that's great! But Ford obviously has some lawyers too and I'm pretty sure replacing the turbo for more power is going to void the entire drivetrain warranty, as it does put more strain than designed on the entire drivetrain... But, to me what is really sad is that if they see any mod at all, it gives them more reason to check the permanent ECU values and can tell if you have ever been tuned even if you completely uninstall an AP.. That said, these motors are freaking stout, I have no concerns about the engine warranty itself, I just hope some d-bag at the dealership wouldn't try to void me on something else and would I would have to take even one second of my time to fight it...

Also, just in my experience, my motor didn't "feel" fully broken in until about 5000 miles, but I have been tuned since 2000... and the "break in" period/process is simply not keep the engine at a steady speed for too long the first 1000 miles... Nothing about no high revving, high boost or anything, in fact some people say the best way to break a motor in is to dyno it immediately.

 

[PLATINUM_ST]

I just hope some d-bag at the dealership wouldn't try to void me on something else and would I would have to take even one second of my time to fight it....

This. The problem is that they can tell you its voided and then it is up to you to decide if you want/can afford to fight them on it.

 

[danbfree]

This. The problem is that they can tell you its voided and then it is up to you to decide if you want/can afford to fight them on it.

Exactly... but I DO have 3 dealerships within 10 miles or so of me that I can try to work with, but not everyone has that luxury either... But also, if I have an axle or whatever go bad and they try to claim my tune must have done it, I could be up shit creek, any extra power at all can give them reason to try to void you... That said, I decided this car was just too fun not to mod and enjoy all that extra torque on the table. Compared to other enthusiast cars, these are VERY reliable with many highly tuned cars hitting 100k no problem with no warranty claims, that is what eventually sold me on being worth it, just far too much evidence of no major issues to worry about my warranty, so I made that decision for myself.

 

[PLATINUM_ST]

Exactly... but I DO have 3 dealerships within 10 miles or so of me that I can try to work with, but not everyone has that luxury either... But also, if I have an axle or whatever go bad and they try to claim my tune must have done it, I could be up shit creek, any extra power at all can give them reason to try to void you... That said, I decided this car was just too fun not to mod and enjoy all that extra torque on the table. Compared to other enthusiast cars, these are VERY reliable with many highly tuned cars hitting 100k no problem with no warranty claims, that is what eventually sold me on being worth it, just far too much evidence of no major issues to worry about my warranty, so I made that decision for myself.

I am in the same boat. I have several dealers in my area. Some are better than others. I have a pretty good relationship with one in particular since I work for a major insurance company that does a lot of business with them. Would they honor my warranty after I blow it up with a few thousand miles on it? lol, maybe not but these drive trains seem to be highly reliable up to a certain power level.

 

[drinkgasoline]

Does anyone have e any experience with the whoosh downpipe? I have their intercooler and was stunned by the quality at the price point. How is the DP?

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I ordered a catted DP from Whoosh last month, still waiting for it to ship.
I guess they're still being manufactured.
Will update when I receive it and get it installed.

 

[jmrtsus]

Man, all this talk about "voiding warranty" on every car forum I'm ever a member of drives me crazy.

Look up the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act people!!!

The manufacturer HAS TO PROVE your aftermarket/modified parts caused a part to fail, it's on THEM to prove it. Swapping out a turbo would ONLY void the warranty on the factory turbo, along with any other FACTORY part that was replaced during the swap, unless the dealer/manufacturer can PROVE that the modded part caused other parts to fail.

SEMA has a whole team of lawyers that will help people fight these cases, and they almost ALWAYS win.

SEMA has jack to do with M-M, they are for member employees functions. Look it up. They do zero with consumers M-M complaints. It is NOT Fords responsibility to tests every oil, filter , belt or hose made. It is the makers job to prove the part meets specs. Look on an oil container for an example. You are free to replace your turbo with one that meets factory specs per M-M and your warranty will be preserved. You can install a bigger turbo but since it does not meet specs any engine failures will NOT be covered because YOU increased the stress on the engine. That does NOT void any other part of your warranty.....just the parts affected by your part. In a M-M complaint Ford will be the defendant and you the plaintiff, it is up to you to prove your allegations not Ford's to disprove. Been there done that and lost because I failed to prove the part met specs due to thinking Dodge had to prove something! They did not open their mouth and I lost! The info is available from all major companies supplying oil,filters, belts and hoses for free. I just did not have the info. And don't expect some White Knight riding in to support you if you go to the free arbitration, not allowed. You can hire a lawyer and sue Ford in State or Federal courts but proof will still be your job not Fords.

 

[EnthusiaST]

IMO, 500 miles is too soon. Order all the parts and get a couple K miles on it before you throw on the hybrid. I don't know your financial situation but a well sorted hybrid build would run upwards of 6k. Give yourself some time to break it in and slowly build up the parts. Do suspension, brakes, wheels and tires first then boltons/turbo/tune after a few K miles. Throw some Aux in the mix and make some jam.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yeah I totally trust the motor, it’s not that, I’m just saying that if you’re gonna void the warranty you might as well get a used one with 20 or 30k and pay half the price. It’s about the principle/money, not the reliability of the engine.

He did invite us to tell him if he was crazy....I just don’t like throwing my money away, that’s crazy. If I had planned to mod mine immediately I’d have bought one out of warranty for half the price.

^^^THIS!!
IF I had the coin laying around for a $4K+ (all in) turbo setup, I'm guessing that I would not care too much if I grenaded the bottom end, and had to replace it with one of those built short blocks, or even a new or used OEM one, on MY OWN dime (or many hundreds of thousands of them, LOL), as well as anything else in the drive train which Ford would deny a warranty claim on, due to it breaking because I was pushing way too much power through it.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Have you looked into the Whoosh catted DP? I'm not sure how it performs to emissions standards, but it may be an option for improvement that'll still pass the PA testing.

This.

We don't have rollers/sniffer tests here for post '96/OBD 1 cars, so unless he gets a really alert service station grease monkey (we ONLY have 'privatized' inspections here), who would actually have to be implicitly familiar with these cars in order to tell the difference between the Whoosh catcon down pipe and the factory one, and then be willing to make a POINT/ISSUE out of it, he is FINE with the Whoosh (or any other converter equipped) down pipe as far as Pennsyltuckey inspection goes.

(OF COURSE, as long as there are NO emissions related dash lights/codes, or readiness monitors showing not ready beyond the allowed limits.)

 

[felopr]

when I pay her in full, I will try a hybrid, until then I am happy with the stock turbo

 

[M-Sport fan]

when I pay her in full, I will try a hybrid, until then I am happy with the stock turbo

EXACTLY!

Once I have that monthly payment back in my pocket, (at which time the warranty will be long over anyway), I can afford the snail upgrades, and maybe a diff as well to help it along.
Plus, IF I then grenade the short block because of said snail, I could get a small, lower interest loan (my credit will be EXCELLENT at that point) to cover the expenses of replacing/rebuilding the engine, and have the coin to pay that back as well.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

EXACTLY!

Once I have that monthly payment back in my pocket, (at which time the warranty will be long over anyway), I can afford the snail upgrades, and maybe a diff as well to help it along.
Plus, IF I then grenade the short block because of said snail, I could get a small, lower interest loan (my credit will be EXCELLENT at that point) to cover the expenses of replacing/rebuilding the engine, and have the coin to pay that back as well.

F-THAT....Just go get a second job PT or work 70-80 hrs a week like me.....then you can have all those things but little time to install it all!

 

[Quisp]

SEMA has jack to do with M-M, they are for member employees functions. Look it up. They do zero with consumers M-M complaints. It is NOT Fords responsibility to tests every oil, filter , belt or hose made. It is the makers job to prove the part meets specs. Look on an oil container for an example. You are free to replace your turbo with one that meets factory specs per M-M and your warranty will be preserved. You can install a bigger turbo but since it does not meet specs any engine failures will NOT be covered because YOU increased the stress on the engine. That does NOT void any other part of your warranty.....just the parts affected by your part. In a M-M complaint Ford will be the defendant and you the plaintiff, it is up to you to prove your allegations not Ford's to disprove. Been there done that and lost because I failed to prove the part met specs due to thinking Dodge had to prove something! They did not open their mouth and I lost! The info is available from all major companies supplying oil,filters, belts and hoses for free. I just did not have the info. And don't expect some White Knight riding in to support you if you go to the free arbitration, not allowed. You can hire a lawyer and sue Ford in State or Federal courts but proof will still be your job not Fords.

This^^^ + your car is sitting in pieces and the bank still wants their money ,while you hash it out.

 

[Ford ST]

F-THAT....Just go get a second job PT or work 70-80 hrs a week like me.....then you can have all those things but little time to install it all!

I'm good I enjoy spending time taking care of my vegetable garden, playing with my dogs, spending time with my wife, helping out my parents, and going to the gym. I use to be a workaholic like you, but after working in a senior center for 2 years every old person told me don't work your life away. I give you credit for doing that, but I'll never do it again unless I have to.

This is a picture of my last yard project.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[jmrtsus]

This.

We don't have rollers/sniffer tests here for post '96/OBD 1 cars, so unless he gets a really alert service station grease monkey (we ONLY have 'privatized' inspections here), who would actually have to be implicitly familiar with these cars in order to tell the difference between the Whoosh catcon down pipe and the factory one, and then be willing to make a POINT/ISSUE out of it, he is FINE with the Whoosh (or any other converter equipped) down pipe as far as Pennsyltuckey inspection goes.

(OF COURSE, as long as there are NO emissions related dash lights/codes, or readiness monitors showing not ready beyond the allowed limits.)

The check Cats in TN, use a roll around mirror at the State run testing stations. Funny part was he looked under the drivers side behind the wheel........

 

[FiSTerTheGrouch]

I'm good I enjoy spending time taking care of my vegetable garden, playing with my dogs, spending time with my wife, helping out my parents, and going to the gym. I use to be a workaholic like you, but after working in a senior center for 2 years every old person told me don't work your life away. I give you credit for doing that, but I'll never do it again unless I have to.

This is a picture of my last yard project.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more. No amount of money is worth throwing my whole life away at a job(s).

 

[jmrtsus]

This^^^ + your car is sitting in pieces and the bank still wants their money ,while you hash it out.

That is why I have the MP-215 and will do no warranty affecting mods until my warranty is up. I will not go through it again. Over 4 weeks to get to arbitration and it was over in 10 minutes and I lost. M-M is at least a free way to dispute a warranty denial. Had I done it right I may have won. It took 4 weeks to get to arbitration from filing and we had the car fixed on our own $$ prior to arbitration. M-M was enacted mainly for the makers of car parts to insure your warranty would not be affected by using their filters, oil, belts blah blah blah. M-M will not get into arguments with mods. They will ask for specs to prove it is an equivalent part to the oem spec part. Occasionally the consumer will win in a M-M hearing. An informal conversation with the arbitrator revealed that most cases the car company wins because like you see on this forum people are told by people that do not know what they are talking about that it is the car companies burden to "prove" you part caused the problem. It is not, they provide evidence that their car works fine with the oem spec parts. YOU must prove what you used was correct for the car. That is easy with most reputable aftermarket parts as the parts company will provide you with the test data on their part showing it meets specs. I am always amazed at some modders going nuts because Ford will not work on their car engine after mods. How can people really believe you can add aftermarket parts to increase power and Ford will have to fix your engine? And the ones that rant and threaten to confront the dealer service people with M-M threats to fix their car are always good for a laugh. M-M is between the car company and you. The dealer has nothing to do with M-M. Both modding your car or keeping your engine warranted is everyone's choice and many mod from day one. Some people go to Vegas and win, but not many and seldom me! I bought a fiST because it was a factory hot rod. I also bought it because of the Mountune connection with the MP-215 and installed it as soon as it came in after purchase. The peace of mind was well worth the cost over a Cobb tune. I tell people that have problems and power increasing mods not to bother with M-M, you will lose in ten minutes. My case had zero to do with mods, just an aftermarket timing belt.

 

[jeff]

I'm good I enjoy spending time taking care of my vegetable garden, playing with my dogs, spending time with my wife, helping out my parents, and going to the gym. I use to be a workaholic like you, but after working in a senior center for 2 years every old person told me don't work your life away. I give you credit for doing that, but I'll never do it again unless I have to.

Smart man.

If anyone's looking for a great movie, go watch TRAIN TO BUSAN. 95% on Rotten Tomatoes and for good reason. Not only is it an A+ zombie flick, but it's a powerful tale of a man discovering the important things in life a little too late. Very good film even if you don't enjoy the horror/zombie genre, just watched it and it's had me thinking on deep things related to the post quoted above...

[video=youtube;pyWuHv2-Abk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyWuHv2-Abk[/video]

I am always amazed at some modders going nuts because Ford will not work on their car engine after mods. How can people really believe you can add aftermarket parts to increase power and Ford will have to fix your engine? I tell people that have problems and power increasing mods not to bother with M-M, you will lose in ten minutes.

Smart man.