Transmission Fluid Change

[TyphoonFiST]

Who sells this Ravenol? Thought whoosh did...but I think they only deal in motul from looking at the website.

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[XR650R]

Who sells this Ravenol? Thought whoosh did...but I think they only deal in motul from looking at the website.

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I got it online. About $17 a qt, IIRC.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I got it online. About $17 a qt, IIRC.

Where @?

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[XR650R]

Looks like the price went up a little. https://www.amazon.com/RAVENOL-J1C1...524411681&sr=1-1&keywords=Ravenol+mtf+75+w+80

Oh, wait. https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAVENOL-MA...928942&hash=item5680b59675:g:KawAAOSw44BYmIYu

 

[Intuit]

Not really sure what they mean there. The bottle says Ford WSS-etc., among others, which is what's specified.

On a different site, a poster quotes:

• WSD is a 75W90 while WSS is a 75W80. The only oil that meets specs in the US is the Motorcraft XT-11-QDC. Castrol offers an approved oil outside the US but has no plans to import it here.

I bought 3L of Castrol's 75W-90 SynTrans TransAxle fluid.

The WSD spec that was mentioned is for the 5-speed manual transmission that accompanies the 1.0L EcoBoost, "IB5" transmission.

Note that the description for the IB5 says "Manual Transmission Fluid". The description for the B6 says "Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid" instead of manual.

 

[Intuit]

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There could be a bit of a "capacity controversy" going on.
The factory put in 1.6, but it may actually take >2L?
This may explain why the fluid seemed so worn out, and the clacking noise as the transaxle is loaded?? (could be differential or axle shafts - yet to confirm)

Search "(B6)" in the 2016 owner's manual.
https://owner.ford.com/tools/account/how-tos/owner-manuals/sitemap.html

============
On page 241 it lists:

• Manual transmission fluid (B6) 1.7 qt (1.6 L)*

On page 242 it lists:

• WSS-M2C200-D2
• Motorcraft Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid
• XT-11-QDC

===========
On page 238 it lists:

• Manual transmission fluid (ib5) 2.2 qt (2.1 L)*

On page 239 it lists:

• WSD-M2C200-C
• Motorcraft Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid
• XT-M5-QS

============

The first serial is the specification. The second serial is the Ford part number for the Motorcraft fluid.

I checked the 2016 Service Manual and it matches the Owner's Manual on the spec and part numbers, for both the "B5/IB5" and "B6" transmissions. So this is good.

Owner and Service Manuals do agree on spec and part serials but they differ slightly on capacities.

Onwer's Manual capacities:

• ib5 = 2.1L
• B6 = 1.6L

Service Manual Capacities:

• B5/IB5 = 2.3L
• B6 = 1.67L

Service Manual is more precise with a spec of "1.67L" on the B6, and adds 8.6% more fluid for the B5/IB5 at "2.3L". However, this is not the controversy.

Refill Instructions for Service Manual:
Put in fluid until it reaches the Fill Hole.

• B5/IB5 = 'It combines instructions as "B5/IB5" and says (via graphic only) "5-10mm" from fill hole.'
• B6 = "Remove enough fluid to be 1 in (20mm) below the fill hole."

As mentioned in the beginning, I got approximately 1.6L of the OEM fluid out. I didn't check the level before draining, but refilling with ~1.6L did not put the fluid anywhere near the manual spec 20mm/1" from the fill hole. I triple checked the Service Manual to make sure that I wasn't looking under the refill spec for the "IB5" instead of the "B6". I was able to confirm that I was not under the wrong section.

So I'm wondering whether the refill is actually ~2.1L and the factory + ford documentation goofed? Next person that refills, can you corroborate my observations?

Given that vehicle tilt makes a massive difference in fill "capacity" or distance from the fill hole, I did use a ground lever on the garage floor, and also measured the distance of the apex of the wheel well from ground.

 

[XR650R]

So, WSS is what they say, right? That's what I got.

 

[kivnul]

...So I'm wondering whether the refill is actually ~2.1L and the factory + ford documentation goofed? Next person that refills, can you corroborate my observations?..

So filling with the 1" below method you used about 2.1L? If that is the case I want to add 0.4-0.5L more to mine. (I did 1.6L last time, its what came out)

 

[Intuit]

So, WSS is what they say, right? That's what I got.

WSS yes. 75W-80 DCT TransAxle fluid. I wanted the heavier 75W-90 (not gear oil) stuff.

Can you confirm how much you get out, and how much you have to put back in to get it 20mm/1" from the fill hole?

 

[Intuit]

So filling with the 1" below method you used about 2.1L? If that is the case I want to add 0.4-0.5L more to mine. (I did 1.6L last time, its what came out)

Confirm whether it's the 20mm/1" from the fill hole before adding any. I want honest confirmation.

 

[XR650R]

WSS yes. 75W-80 DCT TransAxle fluid. I wanted the heavier 75W-90 (not gear oil) stuff.

Can you confirm how much you get out, and how much you have to put back in to get it 20mm/1" from the fill hole?

Haven't done it yet.

Now I'm scared to!

 

[kivnul]

Confirm whether it's the 20mm/1" from the fill hole before adding any. I want honest confirmation.

I can't get my fat fingers far enough in the hole to tell, and getting the car off the ground and level is hard with my equipment. Tis why I went with the measured method. =(

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Haven't done it yet.

Now I'm scared to!

There is a simple way to do this...measure what you took out and put that back in!

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[Intuit]

I can't get my fat fingers far enough in the hole to tell, and getting the car off the ground and level is hard with my equipment. Tis why I went with the measured method. =(

Garage floors are typically leveled. But you can confirm with a long bubble-style lever.

If you have small jack stands and a single low profile jack, you'll have enough equipment. I don't have a low profile jack and didn't use any jack stands, but was able to make do with left/right race ramps and two jacks.

Verify that the apex from top of wheel well to ground, match in height for front and rear. (mine did)
* Jack up the front via the cross member behind the engine.
* Insert your small jack stands on either side. (the higher you jack the front, the harder it will be to get under the back)
* Remove the jack.
* Take a measurement from the apex of the wheel well to ground.
* Jack up the rear.
* Take measurements to insure that the Apex to ground matches the front.

Your vehicle is now level. Be sure that your jack rolls as it's jacking up the rear. If it fails to roll, you're going to pull the vehicle right off the jack stands. (jack stands could damage something underneath)

I measured and marked 1" out from the tip of a screw driver. That was my "dip stick" of sorts. Could also unfold a paper clip and do the same. It was hard to see the fluid on it, but it was clear. Yours likely won't be clear anymore.

 

[M-Sport fan]

What does "Practice and tested in aggregates with filling" mean.......their site says nothing about meeting Ford specs.
To me "Practice and tested in aggregates with filling" is completely different from "meets or exceeds" the Ford specs. It simply says it will work in these applications.
" RAVENOL MTF-2 SAE 75W-80 is designed
based on synthetic base oils and specially coordinated additive treatment. This exceeds the needs of today's application requirements. " However a 75W-80 oil is not what is recommended in the manual, DCTC is correct? Maybe I am confused because I am used to seeing the "meets or exceeds" standards we see in the USA? Thanks for any clarification, I see many using Motul 300 but the Motul site states the DCTC is the correct one to use. May just stick with Motorcraft!

The CURRENT formula/bottles of the Motul DCT fluid also FULLY fulfill the manual's Ford WSS 200-whatever spec as well as the semi-synthetic, and FULL synthetic Motorcraft DCTs, and yes, the unobtanium HERE Castrol brew.

Ford WOULD have a VERY HARD TIME proving that a fluid like the Ravenol MTF-2 (which being a GL-4 fluid is actually A LOT more heat and mechanically shear RESISTANT than ANY DCTF, protects the gears, sliders, synchros, and bearings MUCH better than any DCTF could, and is splitting hairs close in cSt @100*C viscosity to those DCTFs) actually caused a B6 transaxle failure.

I already 'chanced' the non-spec Motul Gear 300, so I will also take my chances on the Ravenol MTF-2 when I change to that in the coming weeks.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Where @?

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Blauparts, based in Wisconsin, sells it directly on their site, and sometimes has discount codes/coupons available and offered (like the 17% off 'tax day' one I recently purchased my MTF-2 and REP 5W-30 from them with).

They currently are the sole, ONLY North American/U.S. distributor for Ravenol, so even when you use amazon or ebay, it goes through them.

 

[jmrtsus]

The CURRENT formula/bottles of the Motul DCT fluid also FULLY fulfill the manual's Ford WSS 200-whatever spec as well as the semi-synthetic, and FULL synthetic Motorcraft DCTs, and yes, the unobtanium HERE Castrol brew.

Ford WOULD have a VERY HARD TIME proving that a fluid like the Ravenol MTF-2 (which being a GL-4 fluid is actually A LOT more heat and mechanically shear RESISTANT than ANY DCTF, protects the gears, sliders, synchros, and bearings MUCH better than any DCTF could, and is splitting hairs close in cSt @100*C viscosity to those DCTFs) actually caused a B6 transaxle failure.

I already 'chanced' the non-spec Motul Gear 300, so I will also take my chances on the Ravenol MTF-2 when I change to that in the coming weeks.

Keep in mind the M-M act requires YOU to prove any fluids meet Ford specs.....not their burden. That is why in the US the containers have the usual statement of "meets or exceeds" by the companies selling the products. So there will be no M-M problems with Mobil or Castrol providing the proof of meeting the specs. I agree with what you are saying as to probably no harm with the others. But as we do have some trans going bad and if mine does I want no problems if the dealer knows what color the fluid is supposed to be unless I used a product that states meet or exceeds. I suspect it is the add packs and Synthetic oil that provides an economy (less friction) function to the Motorcraft product. I don't think the failures have been attributed to the oil that I have seen.

 

[Sprinkle_Star]

With my Celica, I would refill the transmission with gear oil only while all four tires were back on the ground. There was a drain hole and a fill hole, and I knew that there was enough oil inside once the oil started seeping out of the fill hole.

Is it not the same technique with the FiST?

 

[M-Sport fan]

Keep in mind the M-M act requires YOU to prove any fluids meet Ford specs.....not their burden. That is why in the US the containers have the usual statement of "meets or exceeds" by the companies selling the products. So there will be no M-M problems with Mobil or Castrol providing the proof of meeting the specs. I agree with what you are saying as to probably no harm with the others. But as we do have some trans going bad and if mine does I want no problems if the dealer knows what color the fluid is supposed to be unless I used a product that states meet or exceeds. I suspect it is the add packs and Synthetic oil that provides an economy (less friction) function to the Motorcraft product. I don't think the failures have been attributed to the oil that I have seen.

I hear you on that, but the way I understand the MM Act is that Ford would FIRST have to make a claim/establish PROOF that the FLUID itself was the cause of the failure/problem, and THEN it would be up to me to show/prove that the 'blamed' fluid met their specs in order for them to be bound and liable to fix/replace it.

IF it is a failure/problem TOTALLY unrelated to, and with NOTHING to do with the fluid used, they are still bound to the warranty.

It seems that Motorcraft offers TWO DCT fluids, a semi-synthetic blend, and a FULL synthetic.
The full synthetic's base stock might help a little bit with reducing friction, but that is more a function of any additive pack in it, and the semi-synthetic will be more susceptible to heat and mechanical shear than either their full synthetic AND any other full synthetic fluids of any type.

The actual viscosity of a given fluid will most likely have much more effect on friction (as drag) than the type of base stock, or even additives.

I would also venture to guess that most of the other full synthetic fluids use a better base stock composition (MUCH more PAO/POE content than group 3/etc., as I suspect is what whoever manufactures the full synthetic stuff for Motorcraft uses) than even the full synthetic Motorcraft (albeit, given the CO$T of that stuff, maybe not ).

BTW; According to the VOAs (virgin oil analysis) on bitog, the Kendall GT1 motor oil is NOT exactly what is in the various Motorcraft bottles (although yes, they ARE both made by the same company), as the tests of the Motorcraft oils show NO titanium content whatsoever.

Sadly, I also found out that the new formulation Dexos 1 Gen 2 versions of the GT1 oils (NOT the one you're using!) have little to no titanium content in their add packs either.

 

[XR650R]

With my Celica, I would refill the transmission with gear oil only while all four tires were back on the ground. There was a drain hole and a fill hole, and I knew that there was enough oil inside once the oil started seeping out of the fill hole.

Is it not the same technique with the FiST?

No. For some reason, the oil is supposed to be an inch below the fill hole. But how do you measure that? The easiest thing would be to just measure what comes out and put the same back in, as many have said.