Valvoline "Modern Engine" synthetic oil

[M-Sport fan]

Basically, the titanium additive is a lower cost, but still very effective anti-wear, anti-friction replacement for various forms of molybdenum.

The latest form of moly, the 'trimer' stuff, is also VERY effective, and as such requires much less of a ppm concentration in a given add pack formulation than the older 'dimer' type of moly which (I believe) is what Red Line, Torco, and others still use in their add packs.

The oil I am going to use next uses tungsten in combination with trimer molybdenum in it's anti-wear/anti-friction add pack.

 

[VuDoo]

Those are awfully HIGH NOACK volatility numbers for oils which are supposedly geared towards use in (T)GDI engines.

The oil I want to use in the spring has a NOACK number HALF (or less) of those listed above.

Since owning the ol' ST I have been trying to learn about oils and doing the best I can to keep up with maintenance. While I do not claim to know everything, I don't think that a Noack of 11 or 12 is that high and is common for "most" oils on the market. If it were in the 15+ range, then I would agree and would probably advise against running that oil. When choosing oils such as brand, oil type, Noack rating, etc, are all important things to consider. However, I believe that some of these factors really come into play on how hard you run your car and how often you are changing the oil. If you are tracking the car every weekend, or constantly pushing the limits of the car, this type of activity increases the duration that the oil is exposed extreme temperatures. This in turn, changes the behavior of oil. Activity like this would require more frequent oil changes to prevent any issues down the road. For me a Noack of 12 is just fine for some spirited driving mixed in with my daily driving and I would have no issues changing oil out on a 7000 mi interval. Obviously, If I were to take the car to the track a few weekends I would probably change the oil MUCH sooner.

It is just like a set of tires. You have 2 sets of the same exact tire. You track, or spirit drive one set and drive around town on the other set. The ones you track will obviously wear out faster just because of the conditions they are put under. Can you get an LSPI event from oil alone? Nobody knows for sure. I haven't read of a FiST engine suffer from this fate yet. Older Mazda's with similar engines, sure they had major issues. Nor have I yet hear of an extreme case of carbon build up on valves on our cars, CC or not. But then again I might have missed something. Again, I am not an expert by any means I am just trying to piece all these little tid-bits of info together. I have gone from Mobil1 to Liqui Moly Special Tech AA for the past 2 years. And doing a quick comparing the of the spec charts of Liqui Moly and the new Valvoline there were very few differences. LM had a higher flash point. Just my 2cents.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Basically, AGREED!

These oils with a higher NOACK percentage most likely do NOT also have a very high calcium content, so they have that going for them (as far as LSPI prevention goes).

The new formulation Amsoil Signature Series oils have a low NOACK (some as low as 4.1%!! ), (probably as a result of them using a big PAO content percentage, and maybe even some POE content in these oils' base stocks) but they still have a crazy high starting TBN (@12.5) which usually indicates a very high calcium content detergent/dispersant additive pack, but maybe they found a way around using much, if any calcium, since they market this oil's new formulation as being FOR T/GDI power plants, just like Valvoline does for the oil pictured above.

The one I am going with (Ravenol DXG) has a low NOACK (6%), PAO/POE base stock, a very modern 'tech' anti-wear/anti-friction additive pack with trimer molybdenum and tungsten, and a VERY high flash point of 492*F (one of the highest I've ever seen, even among most pure racing oils!), and IS marketed as a low LSPI and low intake valve deposit formation oil.

It's only real drawback is a low(ish) starting TBN @ 8.3 (again, probably due to less calcium in it's detergent/dispersant pack to lessen the chance of LSPI), so this means that it may have to be changed out a little more frequently than some of the high starting TBN/'long life'/long OCI oils like the Amsoil Sig Series, Mobil 1 EP, Castrol EP, etc.

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

Way too much science in this thread for me to understand

 

[VuDoo]

Way too much science in this thread for me to understand

LOL, I would agree.

Noack is basically the evaporation of a lubricant when exposed to a high temperature environment. Oils have varying sizes of molecules. The evaporation usually effects the lighter/smaller molecules. Once they burn off or evaporate, your left with a thicker oil. The lower the Noack number (%), the less evaporation occurs.

"What does all this mean?" you say. Just that most synthetics with a low Noack(%) have less to burn/evaporate and probably contain molecules that are more "uniform." There is also the possibility large amounts of viscosity improvers were added to help prevent shearing. In either case, as we continue to run ANY oil, day in and day out, the viscosity will eventually change and the oils ability to effectively lubricate will eventually fail no matter the stabilizers or additives used to prevent this.

There is NO perfect oil. There is ALWAYS a give-and-take, and most data regarding an oils composition and what not, are available if you ask, but typically withheld by the manufacture. As such, Data is scarce. Bottom line, use synthetic. Change the oil frequently based on your driving habits. Regular routine maintenance is really the key when it comes to not only our type of engines, but any modern engine with tight tolerances that produces high pressure high heat environments. IMHO.

 

[Intuit]

I never changed my oil because it "wore out". I've always changed it because it has achieved a certain level of "dirty". Regardless of how much lubricant evaporates, if your oil is coming out looking like the Swamp Thing's great, great, grand father, it's not lubricating as effectively. It's like Palmolive vs Fast Orange.

 

[M-Sport fan]

LOL, I would agree.

Noack is basically the evaporation of a lubricant when exposed to a high temperature environment. Oils have varying sizes of molecules. The evaporation usually effects the lighter/smaller molecules. Once they burn off or evaporate, your left with a thicker oil. The lower the Noack number (%), the less evaporation occurs.

"What does all this mean?" you say. Just that most synthetics with a low Noack(%) have less to burn/evaporate and probably contain molecules that are more "uniform." There is also the possibility large amounts of viscosity improvers were added to help prevent shearing. In either case, as we continue to run ANY oil, day in and day out, the viscosity will eventually change and the oils ability to effectively lubricate will eventually fail no matter the stabilizers or additives used to prevent this.

There is NO perfect oil. There is ALWAYS a give-and-take, and most data regarding an oils composition and what not, are available if you ask, but typically withheld by the manufacture. As such, Data is scarce. Bottom line, use synthetic. Change the oil frequently based on your driving habits. Regular routine maintenance is really the key when it comes to not only our type of engines, but any modern engine with tight tolerances that produces high pressure high heat environments. IMHO.

BRAVO!! VERY well stated!

Sorry about this, but some more "science"; As far as viscosity index improvers go, that is a whole 'nother 300 page topic on bitog, with NO ONE agreeing on anything about them.
But generally, what my understanding is, oils with sky high viscosity indices (i.e.; 200 and greater) usually use the latest, greatest, highest tech, all but shear proof VI improvers added to their formulas, which usually already have a high VI due to the nature/composition of their premium base stocks.

Most of the oils we are discussing here do NOT have crazy high VI ratings, possibly because the formulators/tribologists who design them do not want to even take the chance that even these super premium VI improvers would shear, and therefore make the oil as a whole more volatile, which of course we do NOT want to happen in a turbo GDI (or ANY GDI) engine.

Most of these oils do get whatever decent VI they do have as a result of using premium, naturally volatility resistant, base stocks, and most likely have very little (to none) VI improvers added to their formulations.

 

[Adub]

BRAVO!! VERY well stated!

Sorry about this, but some more "science"; As far as viscosity index improvers go, that is a whole 'nother 300 page topic on bitog, with NO ONE agreeing on anything about them.
But generally, what my understanding is, oils with sky high viscosity indices (i.e.; 200 and greater) usually use the latest, greatest, highest tech, all but shear proof VI improvers added to their formulas, which usually already have a high VI due to the nature/composition of their premium base stocks.

Most of the oils we are discussing here do NOT have crazy high VI ratings, possibly because the formulators/tribologists who design them do not want to even take the chance that even these super premium VI improvers would shear, and therefore make the oil as a whole more volatile, which of course we do NOT want to happen in a turbo GDI (or ANY GDI) engine.

Most of these oils do get whatever decent VI they do have as a result of using premium, naturally volatility resistant, base stocks, and most likely have very little (to none) VI improvers added to their formulations.

Found this link with more information on the Ravenol oils. The other 2 tested in this post have a relatively low NOACK and the poster recommends the FDS as his first choice.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4546429/Ford_WSS-M2C913-D_oil

And here is another forum post about it translated from German.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://oil-club.de/index.php%3Fthread/358-ravenol-dxg-sae-5w-30/&prev=search

And finally a whole forum thread here translated from russian:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.oilchoice.ru/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D108%26t%3D2853%26start%3D30&prev=search

Here is also a full list of DEXO 1 Gen 2 oils that are designed for low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) protection, particularly for small displacement turbo-charged engines (What the Ravenol DXG is, for those that don't know)

http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/

 

[M-Sport fan]

Found this link with more information on the Ravenol oils. The other 2 tested in this post have a relatively low NOACK and the poster recommends the FDS as his first choice.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4546429/Ford_WSS-M2C913-D_oil

And here is another forum post about it translated from German.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://oil-club.de/index.php%3Fthread/358-ravenol-dxg-sae-5w-30/&prev=search

And finally a whole forum thread here translated from russian:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.oilchoice.ru/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D108%26t%3D2853%26start%3D30&prev=search

Here is also a full list of DEXO 1 Gen 2 oils that are designed for low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) protection, particularly for small displacement turbo-charged engines (What the Ravenol DXG is for those that don't know)

http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/

I do not necessarily want a higher ZDDP level oil, (especially when combined with a higher NOACK, which then could put that additive into the combustion chamber, and therefore onto the intake valve backs) and also would rather not use an SL rated oil (unless it is a super stout, basically shear-proof, Motul 300V, MPT 30K, or Red Line product for open track use).

The DXG STILL looks like the best bet in a 5W-30 for our app, again, with all of the benefits listed in my posts above.

Remember, those folks discussing these oils on that post on bitog are mostly in Oz (Australia) which has it's OWN specific recs/specs due to the excessive heat there (think DEATH VALLEY here!), and they are also NOT driving OUR cars.

 

[Adub]

I do not necessarily want a higher ZDDP level oil, (especially when combined with a higher NOACK, which then could put that additive into the combustion chamber, and therefore onto the intake valve backs) and also would rather not use an SL rated oil (unless it is a super stout, basically shear-proof, Motul 300V, MPT 30K, or Red Line product for open track use).

The DXG STILL looks like the best bet in a 5W-30 for our app, again, with all of the benefits listed in my posts above.


Remember, those folks discussing these oils on that post on bitog are mostly in Oz (Australia) which has it's OWN specific recs/specs due to the excessive heat there (think DEATH VALLEY here!), and they are also NOT driving OUR cars.

Where are you planning on purchasing it? Based on the dexo1 license number they only carry gen1 here in the states and not gen 2...

 

[M-Sport fan]

Where are you planning on purchasing it? Based on the dexo1 license number they only carry gen1 here in the states and not gen 2...

Blauparts told me that they have it in stock, unless they were lying to me?

 

[Adub]

Blauparts told me that they have it in stock, unless they were lying to me?

They said it was gen 2? On their website it has the old license number for Gen1...maybe they didn't update it.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I thought this was a thread about Valvolines new fancy boutique oil? Getting a little of track here dont any of you think so?

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^IF it is going to be available on the shelf at Sino Mart, it can hardly be labeled a "boutique oil". LOL

But yes, it has expanded into a discussion of any of the oils aimed directly at use in turbo GDI engines, which maybe is not such a bad thing.

 

[CGLENN27]

^^^IF it is going to be available on the shelf at Sino Mart, it can hardly be labeled a "boutique oil". LOL

But yes, it has expanded into a discussion of any of the oils aimed directly at use in turbo GDI engines, which maybe is not such a bad thing.

I've actually learned a lot while reading this post. I'm glad I started it. I always liked to read blackstone reports and such but they kinda "dumbed" things down for some of us who don't really know much about this stuff but I really enjoy hearing and learning new things.

 

[VuDoo]

It is definitely an eye opener as to what people look at when choosing to use a specific oil. Everything these days are a gimmick, marketed to make the consumer think less and feel good about their purchase.

I feel good giving my kids soda made from 100% juice, never-mind the 21g of sugar added.

It would be interesting to see side by side reports of the same brand of oil but of a regular synthetic and this newer modern engine oil just to see why it is so special.

 

[danbfree]

Castrol Magnatec 5w-20 Full Synthetic (Gen2) with Bosch Premium Filtech, both for $22 on Amazon, change every 5000 miles, rinse, repeat...

 

[danbfree]

Also, to add, if higher NOACK means there is more to burn/evaporate off, wouldn't a GDI-T motors natural oil-thinning properties over time help to off-set this? With this my 3rd GDI-T car in a row but none kept long enough to experience issues with carbon buildup, I'm wondering if this new "Modern Engine" oil REALLY does anything to help specifically with DI carbon build up or can we just run any decent full synthetic and change it halfway frequently, like 5k miles... There is also the new "API SN Plus" standard for DI-T engines, I think we should maybe look more into using oils that meet that, and this "Modern Engine" oil meets that already... Then again looks like DEXOS Gen2 is pretty much the same standard, hmmm.

Good info here: http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/education/know-your-oil/what-you-need-to-know-about-api-sn-plus.html

 

[M-Sport fan]

Also, to add, if higher NOACK means there is more to burn/evaporate off, wouldn't a GDI-T motors natural oil-thinning properties over time help to off-set this? With this my 3rd GDI-T car in a row but none kept long enough to experience issues with carbon buildup, I'm wondering if this new "Modern Engine" oil REALLY does anything to help specifically with DI carbon build up or can we just run any decent full synthetic and change it halfway frequently, like 5k miles... There is also the new "API SN Plus" standard for DI-T engines, I think we should maybe look more into using oils that meet that, and this "Modern Engine" oil meets that already... Then again looks like DEXOS Gen2 is pretty much the same standard, hmmm.

Good info here: http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/education/know-your-oil/what-you-need-to-know-about-api-sn-plus.html

The SN+ rating came about because of the Dexos 1 gen 2 anti-LSPI spec.

A higher NOACK percentage means the oil has more 'light ends' in the base stock composition, which DO 'volatize' much more easily/quickly than a more stout base stock, LOWER NOACK oil.
Excessive fuel dilution would only exacerbate this volatility, and make it worse yet.
It is absolutely NOT a 'gimmick' to seek out the lowest NOACK/volatility (and maybe even lowest sulfated ash as well) oil you can afford for turbo GDI use.

The oil I want to use once it's available here (Ravenol DXG) will not cost much more (IF any more at all) than the Amsoil Signature Series oils with their Preferred Customer pricing (which would be my second choice, as long as it's their latest, LSPI preventative version, re-formulation of the Sig Series).

 

[Adub]

The SN+ rating came about because of the Dexos 1 gen 2 anti-LSPI spec.

A higher NOACK percentage means the oil has more 'light ends' in the base stock composition, which DO 'volatize' much more easily/quickly than a more stout base stock, LOWER NOACK oil.
Excessive fuel dilution would only exacerbate this volatility, and make it worse yet.
It is absolutely NOT a 'gimmick' to seek out the lowest NOACK/volatility (and maybe even lowest sulfated ash as well) oil you can afford for turbo GDI use.

The oil I want to use once it's available here (Ravenol DXG) will not cost much more (IF any more at all) than the Amsoil Signature Series oils with their Preferred Customer pricing (which would be my second choice, as long as it's their latest, LSPI preventative version, re-formulation of the Sig Series).

Based on some longer and more extensive oil research I have done (trying to figure out what the best oil I should get for my car), I came across some additional information where they tested NOACK levels and LSPI. Based on the tests, NOACK levels had little to no correlation with respect to LSPI. In fact, lubricants with around the 10-11% NOACK marker had the lowest LSPI. The biggest cause of LSPI seems to be calcium. Oils with more Molybdenum and Phosphorus additives help counteract LSPI. Link to study: https://www.slideshare.net/AftonChemical/afton-chemical-the-impact-of-low-speed-preignition-on-next-generation-engine-oils Image:
(From slide 38)