It's about Time....Modern GDI OIL for Turbos

[A7xogg]

Sweet! More companies going to this before gf-6 is mandatory= less of a price hike

 

[Scotman2]

None of these next generation oils are made with bargain basement components. The engineering challenges to get a fluid to perform and last under the conditions they endure is a very heavy task. Long drain intervals, sludge resistance, low volatility, resistance to cavitation, stable viscosity under a wide range of conditions. Corrosion protection and reliable dispersion along with a host of other requirements. Compared to the very best oils of the last twenty years, this stuff is like a liquid version of superman. It won't be in the same league.

 

[apex1]

According to this short post by a company named Lube Tech, the first licenses for gf-6 labelling will be effective September 1, 2018. I wonder if the new Valvoline oil meets the standard but just cannot be labeled gf-6 until then?

http://lubetechblog.com/understanding-gf-6-oil-specs/

 

[TyphoonFiST]

According to this short post by a company named Lube Tech, the first licenses for gf-6 labelling will be effective September 1, 2018. I wonder if the new Valvoline oil meets the standard but just cannot be labeled gf-6 until then?

http://lubetechblog.com/understanding-gf-6-oil-specs/

I deal with this company on a weekly basis here in Mn....it will be interesting how this all unfolds with who will be the first.

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[Scotman2]

Yes, I forgot about that 'split spec' feature, and YES it is going to be an EXTREME base stock/additive challenge to get the proposed GF-6B 'fuel saving' 0W-5/7 and 0W-10 weight oils to meet those specs and not be excessively volatile, and carbon deposit forming in DI engine scenarios (besides all of the oil film boundary challenges!).

The GF-6A will be the one which meets/exceeds the various Dexos/Honda/etc. LSPI reducing needs/specs for the 0/5W-20/30/etc. viscosities, correct?

Yes. That's how i understood it to be. Spec 6A is the new improved spec in general, replacing gf5. Spec 6B is the new tech low viscosity/SFE stuff.

 

[Intuit]

None of these next generation oils are made with bargain basement components. The engineering challenges to get a fluid to perform and last under the conditions they endure is a very heavy task. Long drain intervals, sludge resistance, low volatility, resistance to cavitation, stable viscosity under a wide range of conditions. Corrosion protection and reliable dispersion along with a host of other requirements. Compared to the very best oils of the last twenty years, this stuff is like a liquid version of superman. It won't be in the same league.

It's usually a good idea to stand back and wait at least a year; let others be the guinea pigs. There are often unintended consequences that laboratory testing misses, dismisses or diminishes.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I wonder if the new Valvoline oil meets the standard but just cannot be labeled gf-6 until then?

I asked that precise question to the Ravenol tech this morning about their own mostly PAO base stock, DXG 5W-30, and he basically said yes, they FULLY expect this currently available oil to exceed those GF-6A specs once they are in effect, with only a label change to make it official.

 

[M-Sport fan]

None of these next generation oils are made with bargain basement components. The engineering challenges to get a fluid to perform and last under the conditions they endure is a very heavy task. Long drain intervals, sludge resistance, low volatility, resistance to cavitation, stable viscosity under a wide range of conditions. Corrosion protection and reliable dispersion along with a host of other requirements. Compared to the very best oils of the last twenty years, this stuff is like a liquid version of superman. It won't be in the same league.

Yes, I have serious doubts that even most GTL and Visom group 3+ base stocks, let alone plain old super hydrocracked group 3 base stocks will 'cut it' to allow these super low weight oils to meet these new standards.

 

[A7xogg]

I asked that precise question to the Ravenol tech this morning about their own mostly PAO base stock, DXG 5W-30, and he basically said yes, they FULLY expect this currently available oil to exceed those GF-6A specs once they are in effect, with only a label change to make it official.

Hmm, what about 5w20?

 

[A7xogg]

I asked that precise question to the Ravenol tech this morning about their own mostly PAO base stock, DXG 5W-30, and he basically said yes, they FULLY expect this currently available oil to exceed those GF-6A specs once they are in effect, with only a label change to make it official.

Hmm, what about 5w20?

 

[Scotman2]

5w20 will be a GF-6A. It will be interesting to see what happens with 10W30 and 10W40. I really don't see any cost or functional benefits to doing any major rework on these specs. They are unsuitable for any modern GDI engines. The heavier multi-viscosity oils are rapidly falling in demand.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Hmm, what about 5w20?

They (Ravenol) do make a good 5W-20, which I believe meets/beats our 945-A spec, but it is NOT one of their oils which is specifically aimed at reducing LSPI events.
They do also have a 0W-20 which is a LSPI reducing formulated oil, which I would consider using for the winter OCI in the future.

 

[M-Sport fan]

5w20 will be a GF-6A. It will be interesting to see what happens with 10W30 and 10W40. I really don't see any cost or functional benefits to doing any major rework on these specs. They are unsuitable for any modern GDI engines. The heavier multi-viscosity oils are rapidly falling in demand.

Yes, I suspect that the heavier weight oils will just continue on as SM/SN and GF-5 (at 'best') spec for older port injected use, and/or even carbed ancient ride use.
(Are the latest Coyote engines still port injected only? IF not, then maybe the various 5W-50s out there will also be formulated for DI use as well? )

 

[Scotman2]

Yes, I suspect that the heavier weight oils will just continue on as SM/SN and GF-5 (at 'best') spec for older port injected use, and/or even carbed ancient ride use.
(Are the latest Coyote engines still port injected only? IF not, then maybe the various 5W-50s out there will also be formulated for DI use as well? )

Gen 3 Coyote is GDI. I liked the gen2/Boss302 version a whole bunch. One or the other of those will be my next purchase.

 

[A7xogg]

They (Ravenol) do make a good 5W-20, which I believe meets/beats our 945-A spec, but it is NOT one of their oils which is specifically aimed at reducing LSPI events.
They do also have a 0W-20 which is a LSPI reducing formulated oil, which I would consider using for the winter OCI in the future.

Where did you see that? I can't find anything about which oils are lspi reduction and which arent

 

[CarmelSack]

Think we are all missing a very import fact. Oil does not touch the back of the valves, so how is it going to help deposit reduction.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Oil gets into the combustion chamber either as vapor/mist from the PCV system through the intake system, or measured amounts past the piston's ring pack, by design, in order to lubricate/protect the cylinder walls, or in the case of worn/faulty valve stem seals (both intake AND exhaust) onto the valve stems and therefore onto the backs of the valves.

THIS is why both a low volatility oil, and an oil with a detergent additive pack which does NOT promote deposits when burned in the chamber are paramount to keeping the intake valves functionally 'clean' in a DI engine.

It is the combustion by products from the even minute amounts of oil being burned in even a fully properly functioning modern engine which contributes to the causes of deposits.
It is NOT that any specific detergents/solvents in any of these oils are 'scrubbing' the backs of the valves (it is a PREVENTION measure these oils seek, NOT a 'fix' or remedial solution to an already existing deposit condition).

 

[Scotman2]

Think we are all missing a very import fact. Oil does not touch the back of the valves, so how is it going to help deposit reduction.

Please utilize the search feature. Oil mist is present in the intake and pcv systems. It has been the subject of conversation on an almost Biblical scale.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I'm going to apologize to everyone right now....I never thought this would get that technical and turn into BITOG. Just thought we would get some people to try it....I know I will.

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[M-Sport fan]

Hey, some parts of BITOG are useful and very informative, just NOT their how shall I put this, extremist ONE-SIDED, "General And Off Topic" forum. LOL