Fiesta ST200 (UK ST180) High Pressure Fuel Pump

[Jamie Ross]

My gut feeling is that it’d be a waste of money/time, but could be worth the certainty. I’d say I’m 99% sure it wouldn’t help much. Other platforms may have their stuff figured out, but I think it’s still comparing Fuji apples to Honey Crisp apples. Slightly different technologies, fueling strategies, cam profiles, ECU architectures, etc etc etc...

Plain and simple, the HPFP becomes a problem before the LPFP becomes a problem. But, maybe the community has just been traveling down the road of a mistake made long ago?

I have questions for you, though. If you’re convinced, why don’t you do it? If you knew all of this why did you buy aux fuel?


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I actually did all this research because I didn’t want to run an aux fuel or meth injection. But if my car is leaning out at 285who on 93oct (octane limited ) then it would not support 285whp on e40, let alone the 330-340whp the turbo will make on E40 and 7.000rpm.

That and a deal on a AUX came along. I actually bidded on a ZZP injector controller on eBay but got sniped with 5sec left, lol. And while meth injection would do the job, it’s too much hassle to have a tank to fill and check all the time. I looked at buying a meth controller that can control a Fast acting valve and use methanol injectors ( basically I was going to use the LPFP line like an aux fuel, the variable flow FAV and two solenoids. One solenoid would open at 4500rpm and feed the FaV, and the second solenoid would open at 6,000rpm and by-pass the FAV for full flow to a 2nd meth nozzle. All said and done, it was going to cost about $550-$600. I bought the aux fuel for $500.

ZZP also talked a bit about the MPFI would actually be “not as good” as a single injector for certain setups. The injector Pulse Width can only be so fast. Long story short, 4 injectors would end up injecting too much too fast and you can’t slow it down anymore. Of course, the MPFI pays huge dividends on the high HP end of things. But if your only needing a little bump in fuel, 1 small injector is great.

Unfortunately for me, I don’t have access to a lift or anyone with a lift. I guess if I had no choice, like a bad fuel pump, I’d make it happen in the driveway. But that’s not my case.

But if I was one of the 100’s of people with a hybrid, right at that 300~ hp area, I’d def be interested. The 5th injector might be a waste of $900 to fuel an extra 25-35hp.

Issac you have any interest in the G25-550 ?

 

[Sekred]

Is there a point where the fueling needs of the 4 injector port systems would demand a higher output LPFP to supply both it AND the HPFP?

Yes, you are correct.

 

[Hijinx]

I actually did all this research because I didn’t want to run an aux fuel or meth injection. But if my car is leaning out at 285who on 93oct (octane limited ) then it would not support 285whp on e40, let alone the 330-340whp the turbo will make on E40 and 7.000rpm.

That and a deal on a AUX came along. I actually bidded on a ZZP injector controller on eBay but got sniped with 5sec left, lol. And while meth injection would do the job, it’s too much hassle to have a tank to fill and check all the time. I looked at buying a meth controller that can control a Fast acting valve and use methanol injectors ( basically I was going to use the LPFP line like an aux fuel, the variable flow FAV and two solenoids. One solenoid would open at 4500rpm and feed the FaV, and the second solenoid would open at 6,000rpm and by-pass the FAV for full flow to a 2nd meth nozzle. All said and done, it was going to cost about $550-$600. I bought the aux fuel for $500.

ZZP also talked a bit about the MPFI would actually be “not as good” as a single injector for certain setups. The injector Pulse Width can only be so fast. Long story short, 4 injectors would end up injecting too much too fast and you can’t slow it down anymore. Of course, the MPFI pays huge dividends on the high HP end of things. But if your only needing a little bump in fuel, 1 small injector is great.

Unfortunately for me, I don’t have access to a lift or anyone with a lift. I guess if I had no choice, like a bad fuel pump, I’d make it happen in the driveway. But that’s not my case.

But if I was one of the 100’s of people with a hybrid, right at that 300~ hp area, I’d def be interested. The 5th injector might be a waste of $900 to fuel an extra 25-35hp.

Issac you have any interest in the G25-550 ?

It’s a solid piece, but I already have a 2867r Gen II to replace my Gen I.


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[Jamie Ross]

I’m super exited to see how the Gen2 does on your car !! Who is doing your tuning ?

 

[McGee-01]

Pumaspeed have a big market and in the UK they are know around the forums as Pumashite ! I know of X47R's going bang after 200 miles and several USA clients have found themselves out of turbo and pocket as Pumaspeed in the UK earns its UK forum name... The VT330R is a massive difference in quality like a Rolls Royce of turbos.. I dont think you can get pictures on here but I will risk a link to Oulton Park race circuit in the UK with a 20 min vid and around 17.10 there is a drawn in BMW M4 getting mashed.. Now at only 302whp (347ish HP) my car isnt the most powerful out there but the delivery is very linear and handling is very good... Camera is still in set-up mode so shows kms in speed and all the light was wrongly set, it does show the power well enough though.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHF4sqtUeKg

 

[McGee-01]

I think the simple question is... What is the direct plug play upgrade LPFP? given where the car is now I think I will be the one to try this maybe first lol... Hopefully the UK will have supply of whatever suggestions are made.. I am currently trying to get a spread of pictures onto Google so that they can be shared via a link..

 

[Jamie Ross]

Ok... while I have posted “walbro 340lph” many times, it may or may not be the best option, lol. I’ve actually had a focus fuel pump assembly in my hands and it’s a lot of hard plastic. It’s a neat design, but hard plastic. And even the focus fuel pump ( which maybe the same as ours, but prob not) is really physically small. Like the size of a mouse. (Not a rat, not a computer mouse, a small mouse that you might get at a snake feeding store ). The best thing I could recommend ( because it’s what I would do ) is check your local ford dealer pricing on a new assembly. My focus buddy got his for $80 brand new. If not, all fiesta fuel tanks are the same. You could buy one from a salvage yard from any ole fiesta.

From the focus pump I looked at, the power and ground wires powering the pump are a JOKE. The are like 16AWG. So I’d recommend if/when you upgrade the pump, look at a way to upgrade the power wires to something a little more capable. And for all the old school guys like me thinking “DSM re-wire” where you use the factory fuel pump power wire to turn on a relay that has 8 or 10AwG power cable going to it, not so fast. The ford pcm uses a Kenny Belle “boost-a-pump” type control from the factory where it feeds the fuel pump like 10V at idle and can increase the voltage to the fuel pump as fuel demand rises ( which it should be able to get upto 14.2-14.4V since the cars charging system gets that high ). That in it’s self is likely a big factor in why we can push the stock pump pretty far. If you use that wire to turn the relay one (and not power it ) to simply will only have 0V or 12V.

A vendor could prob make some reasonable profit selling a fuel pump assembly with an upgraded pump already fitted, larger power/ground wires. And then do like a $50 core if you send in old fuel pump assembly in.

 

[Jamie Ross]

https://m.ebay.com/itm/2014-2016-Fo...Fiesta&hash=item4657bb024c:g:Z4EAAOSwMVdYERpk

 

[M-Sport fan]

Someone on here (forgot who it was) was talking about using one of the Deatsch Werks high output, in tank, LP fuel pumps, with MUCH modification/adaptation of course.

 

[Jamie Ross]

https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/20155972_705295656346664_2919523512588037681_n.jpg?oh=e7414a280bda024657f2bb73017c450e&oe=5AB61C3F

Stratified duel fuel pump setup for the Fost

 

[Jamie Ross]

I don’t think anyone should rule out using an inline external pump that only comes on during high demand.

 

[Nevermind]

In Australia we suffer from shit fuel quality compared to the US and UK and lets not mention the warmer weather lol, Ive been running WMI not tuned with good gains Ive also been trying to improve fuel quality by adding Methonal to our 98 octane (which I think is = 93 US). After the festive break ill hopefully have dyno testing results.

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[Sekred]

I don’t think anyone should rule out using an inline external pump that only comes on during high demand.

You cannot install a inline pump in a GDI system. Under no circumstances should you do this. There is no regulated (pressure relieve valve) return line to the fuel tank. Whats going to happen if you do this?. When ever the inline pump runs, pressure will build because it has no where for the fuel to go except to the HPFP. If the inline pump supplies more fuel than the HPFP can use (and it will, a lot more depending on engine load/RPM) and there is no relieve valve in the system, what do you think is going to happen?. Pressure on the outlet side of the inline pump will build until something blows off, probably a hose.

 

[Jamie Ross]

that’s why you hook it to a 20psi pressure switch. It only comes on at 20psi. BMW 335i guys have been doing it for years.

 

[McGee-01]

OK, there seems to be a drift from my original listing. So lets spice things up a bit ;-)

STRATIFIED X4tra Fuel System on ST200 Fiesta?

Those who have contributed so far thanks and as you know I am trying to overcome some of the fuelling restrictions.

I run a hybrid turbo from AET Motorsport (similar to X47R but better) along with all the air/turbo pipework to maximise flow with stage 3 cooling. I understand that the HPFP is maxed out and without more fuel power is obviously limited. I also note in the Stratifield article that they are suggesting an in tank LPFP upgrade with injectors but again don't understand how this will help when the HPFP is still the same?

I am trying to avoid a 5th injector set-up so think that this STRATIFIED X4tra Fuel System might be the answer.. My car is used on track mainly and very occasionally on road. Anyone done these mods??

 

[M-Sport fan]

It's (the X4tra system) so new that most who actually have one here in the states have only just received it, and are probably installing it as we speak.
Tuning and 'getting the bugs out' will take even longer yet, sadly.

As far as anyone even purchasing one for installation on a Brit/Euro MAF based ST, maybe contact some of your local clubs/car groups?

 

[Jimb0]

Ive bought the aux fuel with the extra injector, i have eu fiesta and in januar og febuar i will install this to my selfbuilded gen2 gtx2860R kit, hopefully this will work. We will see when the time comes

 

[DvC]

OK, there seems to be a drift from my original listing. So lets spice things up a bit ;-)

STRATIFIED X4tra Fuel System on ST200 Fiesta?

i watched the 1st one get installed yesterday. Its not ready for the market. dont buy till the bugs are worked out.

 

[felopr]

You know i have read 4 pages and no one has talk about injector sizes, i mean, those the stock one work pass 320hp? ask yourself, we are asking stock 170hp car injectors to work on a 340hp ish system, that is double what the car came from factory.
I dont know if you can see injector duty cicle in the AP( maybe you can i havent look) but imagine, what if the injectors are at 90%-100% duty cicle at those high RPM.
just think about it, what is after the HPFP? the injectors, if the injectors are open all the time ( 100%-90% duty cicle) then the pressure at the HPFP is going to drop , since there is no resistance for the HPFP build pressure on. Onless the flow (LPFP) is greater to overcome this and this is not the case since Jaime said the LPFP drops alittle bit of pressure at those high RPM.

This is my opinion, i am not a tuner, just doing a educated talking about it. If you are going to talk about the fuel system, you got to talk about the injectors too since it is part of the fuel system, it doesnt end at the HPFP.

 

[BADWOLF]

You know i have read 4 pages and no one has talk about injector sizes, i mean, those the stock one work pass 320hp? ask yourself, we are asking stock 170hp car injectors to work on a 340hp ish system, that is double what the car came from factory.
I dont know if you can see injector duty cicle in the AP( maybe you can i havent look) but imagine, what if the injectors are at 90%-100% duty cicle at those high RPM.
just think about it, what is after the HPFP? the injectors, if the injectors are open all the time ( 100%-90% duty cicle) then the pressure at the HPFP is going to drop , since there is no resistance for the HPFP build pressure on. Onless the flow (LPFP) is greater to overcome this and this is not the case since Jaime said the LPFP drops alittle bit of pressure at those high RPM.

This is my opinion, i am not a tuner, just doing a educated talking about it. If you are going to talk about the fuel system, you got to talk about the injectors too since it is part of the fuel system, it doesnt end at the HPFP.

Injector size, when dealing with di engines, actually isn't a big deal. There is constant back pressure, due to them being closed more often than open, as they can only inject for a micro second each stroke.

That's why the very first thing done when upping hp in di motors is port injection. It's easy and proven. Not to mention the added benefit of cleaning the carbon/oil build up on the intake valves.

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