Possible issue with mountune springs??

[kevinatfms]

Well, this thread is about a progressive spring, I wouldn't be talking about getting one if that wasn't what I want... Yes, Swift are the best linear, but I have no intentions of tracking the car hence why the progressive rate, which DO help a little with handling over stock, just not as much as a linear like Swift... Have you tried to race specifically with Eibach before?

I have. I ran all this auto-x season on the Eibachs and everyone who drove the car said the same exact thing that I have...the Eibachs are pure crap.

The progressive rate works if you start at an acceptable rate. 90lbs-in is not one of them. Its too soft of a start point. You lose quite a bit of turn in to start then it increases in rate so fast that you go from grip to push instantly. If they started at the factory rate and increased to 210-220lbs-in this would quell the body roll, not increase it. You might gain a little bit of mechanical grip starting at the softer rate but lose it once the car shifts the balance to that tire. This then increases push to the point of upsetting the car.

I have tried every tire pressure setting i can in the back to quell the understeer and get more rotation. I think Eibach went too soft up front trying to increase mechanical grip while also alleviating the main complaint with the factory suspension(the rough ride).

 

[danbfree]

I have. I ran all this auto-x season on the Eibachs and everyone who drove the car said the same exact thing that I have...the Eibachs are pure crap.

The progressive rate works if you start at an acceptable rate. 90lbs-in is not one of them. Its too soft of a start point. You lose quite a bit of turn in to start then it increases in rate so fast that you go from grip to push instantly. If they started at the factory rate and increased to 210-220lbs-in this would quell the body roll, not increase it. You might gain a little bit of mechanical grip starting at the softer rate but lose it once the car shifts the balance to that tire. This then increases push to the point of upsetting the car.

I have tried every tire pressure setting i can in the back to quell the understeer and get more rotation. I think Eibach went too soft up front trying to increase mechanical grip while also alleviating the main complaint with the factory suspension(the rough ride).

I replied to your other post too, it's 109ft-in not 90, just so we have the right numbers... But good input to know, I'm glad I'm getting the ones with the best ride!

 

[kevinatfms]

I replied to your other post too, it's 109ft-in not 90, just so we have the right numbers... But good input to know, I'm glad I'm getting the ones with the best ride!

Oy. You try to correct me with a snarky ass comment then fuck up the “semantics”. 109lbs-in is what you mean.

Either way, crap rates to start with and hurt ultimate performance. I’d say they are even worse than the stock springs for anything but ride comfort.


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[danbfree]

Oy. You try to correct me with a snarky ass comment then fuck up the “semantics”. 109lbs-in is what you mean.

Either way, crap rates to start with and hurt ultimate performance. I’d say they are even worse than the stock springs for anything but ride comfort.

Ya, nice language and it's "snarky" to simply correct the false numbers you just throw out there without researching? LOL... and nice try on the thread jacking a progressive spring thread in the first place, sheesh.... SMH.

 

[kevinatfms]

Ya, nice language and it's "snarky" to simply correct the false numbers you just throw out there without researching? LOL... and nice try on the thread jacking a progressive spring thread in the first place, sheesh.... SMH.

Did i thread jack? I said the progressive rates were crap. The thread title of the other thread is "first mod...eibach pros". Eibach makes progressive rate springs.

Me warning the OP with knowledge that the springs are crap is right on point with the thread.

With the rest of your posts about ride comfort maybe you should have bought an SE or SES?

 

[danbfree]

Did i thread jack? I said the progressive rates were crap. The thread title of the other thread is "first mod...eibach pros". Eibach makes progressive rate springs.

Me warning the OP with knowledge that the springs are crap is right on point with the thread.

With the rest of your posts about ride comfort maybe you should have bought an SE or SES?

YES, you thread jacked because no one asked about track handling at all, they had already made up their mind and bought the springs already... how is it helping to jump in and telling someone their springs are crap? Do you not get that?!?!?

And saying I should buy an SE just because I want a more forgiving ride in freaking 4 door daily hatch is flat out mentally disabled level of stupid! And to stalk my other posts about ride comfort? Quit harassing me and get lost already!

 

[kevinatfms]

YES, you thread jacked because no one asked about track handling at all, they had already made up their mind and bought the springs already... how is it helping to jump in and telling someone their springs are crap? Do you not get that?!?!?

And saying I should buy an SE just because I want a more forgiving ride in freaking 4 door daily hatch is flat out mentally disabled level of stupid! And to stalk my other posts about ride comfort? Quit harassing me and get lost already!

Did i say track handling to begin with? Nope. I said that what ive found through many, many autocross runs is that the Eibach springs make the car more of a handful. The OP can decide from there if he wants to continue to use the springs. People write all the time on forums of good and bad experiences with products and it helps better the community. Your bullshit does not.

Oh and if you want a better ride get an SE or another brand vehicle. You bought an ST not some mundane hatch. You know exactly what you were getting into when you took the car on a test drive.

Cant handle people doing a little research on you then GTFO and find a forum for the "safe space" you so obviously require.

 

[Xaendeau]

Hey hey now, no one cares. This is a spring thread, PM yourselves if you wish to continue this.

 

[Xaendeau]

Getting back on topic. These seem to be a good choice for daily drivers, light track use, and canyon carving, but it seems to be a let down in autocross.

Good to know, I am looking to buy a set of springs for autocross first, streetbility second, and track third. Swift Springs was mentioned. Do people think it is the best linear spring of the choices we have?

 

[kevinatfms]

Getting back on topic. These seem to be a good choice for daily drivers, light track use, and canyon carving, but it seems to be a let down in autocross.

Good to know, I am looking to buy a set of springs for autocross first, streetbility second, and track third. Swift Springs was mentioned. Do people think it is the best linear spring of the choices we have?

I would take anything except for daily driving out of the equation for the Eibach springs. I think Mountune increases the front and rear rates versus the pro kit springs. I do know they are higher in final rate though compared to the Eibach. Im sure Danthedickheadbfree will let us know the rates here soon.

I don't really think anyone else on the market has a spring that fits the needs of the people wanting a more motorsport derived setup. Swift is about the closest thing you're going to get at the moment. And i believe are the only company short of coilovers to offer a linear rate set of springs. ST has a nice set of springs but the front rates seem really high at 288lb-in and i cant confirm if the fronts are linear or progressive(ST hasnt gotten back to me).

I am now waiting for the Swift springs to show up and will get them installed on the B8's before the next auto-x event I plan on attending in the end of July.

 

[Xaendeau]

I would take anything except for daily driving out of the equation for the Eibach springs. I think Mountune increases the front and rear rates versus the pro kit springs. I do know they are higher in final rate though compared to the Eibach. Im sure Danthedickheadbfree will let us know the rates here soon.

I don't really think anyone else on the market has a spring that fits the needs of the people wanting a more motorsport derived setup. Swift is about the closest thing you're going to get at the moment. And i believe are the only company short of coilovers to offer a linear rate set of springs. ST has a nice set of springs but the front rates seem really high at 288lb-in and i cant confirm if the fronts are linear or progressive(ST hasnt gotten back to me).

I am now waiting for the Swift springs to show up and will get them installed on the B8's before the next auto-x event I plan on attending in the end of July.

Hey, thanks for the information. Appreciate it. Well, I already have koni yellows, so I'll be looking into Swift and ST for springs. I could just go with coilovers, but I would feel bad about the lovely yellows I would have to replace. Shame we don't have a Ground Control Systems product for this car. I believe a lot of people would buy them. I wonder if anyone has talked to Ground Control yet about this platform.

 

[kevinatfms]

Hey, thanks for the information. Appreciate it. Well, I already have koni yellows, so I'll be looking into Swift and ST for springs. I could just go with coilovers, but I would feel bad about the lovely yellows I would have to replace. Shame we don't have a Ground Control Systems product for this car. I believe a lot of people would buy them. I wonder if anyone has talked to Ground Control yet about this platform.

IIRC, there is a thread on the GRM forum with someone who has contacted them multiple times. Dont know the outcome but it would be great to see. Would make picking the specific rates much easier.

 

[BRGT350]

Eibach:
OE rate: 30 N/mm (172 lbs/in)
Pro-Kit progressive rate: 19-30 N/mm (109-172 lbs/in)
OE wheel center to fender: 340 mm (13.4 in)
Pro-Kit wheel center to fender: 320 mm (12.6 in) (0.8")

OE rate: 24 N/mm (137 lbs/in)
Pro-Kit progressive rate: 10-25 N/mm (58-143 lbs/in)
OE wheel center to fender: 340 mm (13.4 in)
Pro-Kit wheel center to fender: 323 mm (12.7 in) (0.7")

Mountune:
5% (front OE springs 172lbs/in mountune 181lbs/in)
Ride height reduction Front 1.1"

5% (rear OE 137lbs/in mountune 144lbs/in)
Ride height reduction Rear .8”

 

[danbfree]

Did i say track handling to begin with? Nope. I said that what ive found through many, many autocross runs is that the Eibach springs make the car more of a handful. The OP can decide from there if he wants to continue to use the springs. People write all the time on forums of good and bad experiences with products and it helps better the community. Your bullshit does not.

Oh and if you want a better ride get an SE or another brand vehicle. You bought an ST not some mundane hatch. You know exactly what you were getting into when you took the car on a test drive.

Cant handle people doing a little research on you then GTFO and find a forum for the "safe space" you so obviously require.

Look, the point is you started using foul language and got butt-hurt because you were quoting wrong numbers that could give people the wrong impression and I simply corrected you and not in a snarky way either... There is definitely room for debate, but some people just want a little more give on their daily drive and most feedback says that even the Eibach helps with body roll over stock, but yes, initial turn in and perhaps all-out racing it's not the best choice. I completely agree that Swift is the only way to go if you want track handling AND livable for daily street use too, those ST are indeed too stiff unless it's a dedicated track car. Looking at them I don't see the curves a progressive spring would, highly doubt either end is progressive... Anyway, we pretty much agree here, sorry if you think I was snarky just by correcting your numbers, but you also helped by confirming they are the best for daily comfort and I appreciate that!

 

[danbfree]

Eibach:
OE rate: 30 N/mm (172 lbs/in)
Pro-Kit progressive rate: 19-30 N/mm (109-172 lbs/in)
OE wheel center to fender: 340 mm (13.4 in)
Pro-Kit wheel center to fender: 320 mm (12.6 in) (0.8")

OE rate: 24 N/mm (137 lbs/in)
Pro-Kit progressive rate: 10-25 N/mm (58-143 lbs/in)
OE wheel center to fender: 340 mm (13.4 in)
Pro-Kit wheel center to fender: 323 mm (12.7 in) (0.7")

Mountune:
5% (front OE springs 172lbs/in mountune 181lbs/in)
Ride height reduction Front 1.1"

5% (rear OE 137lbs/in mountune 144lbs/in)
Ride height reduction Rear .8”

Yep, Mountune is a step more aggressive than Eibach for sure... The specs, that can be found, on Cobb are EXACTLY the same as Eibach but they charge $70 more, no thanks, but there is a chance Eibach made them a touch more stiff to differentiate from their own... but if anyone wants progressive but also a step more aggressive than Eibach, Mountune is the way to go, if you are going track/autocross I'd go with Swift.

 

[BRGT350]

Yep, Mountune is a step more aggressive than Eibach for sure... The specs, that can be found, on Cobb are EXACTLY the same as Eibach but they charge $70 more, no thanks, but there is a chance Eibach made them a touch more stiff to differentiate from their own... but if anyone wants progressive but also a step more aggressive than Eibach, Mountune is the way to go, if you are going track/autocross I'd go with Swift.

Yeah, I still say for a street lowering springs that provide the most improvement for the money, the Mountune springs are it. I would say that anything over the 5% stiffer spring rate that you need to start dialing in some uprated dampers. If you are building a track or serious autocross car, I would not use a set of lowering springs. At that point, I would be looking at a matched set of replacement springs and dampers or a matched set of fully adjustable coil-overs and adjustable spring perches. If you are really getting serious, double adjustable dampers. You would be at the point of fine tuning corner weights, suspension geometry, and damper rates. For me and my one autocross a year, the Mountune springs and factory dampers are perfect. Having autocross on both stock and Mountune springs, I did not notice any decrease in handling with the Mountune springs. I am so rusty with only getting out once a year that springs aren't my limiting factor.

I would also shy away from the Eibach or Cobb springs, if you wanted to really get into autocrossing or track use. They are great for street use, but I would imagine they are make the over damped factory dampers even more pronounced. I have installed dozens of different springs over the years and the Mountune springs are probably the first set that I was happy with right out of the box. Usually, I end up doing springs and then finding dampers and then finding stiffer springs and better dampers. It is expensive and sucks. When you finally get it right, it is a nice feeling. With the Mountune springs, they are right when you install them (unless yours sits higher than stock, then they are not right).

 

[danbfree]

Yeah, I still say for a street lowering springs that provide the most improvement for the money, the Mountune springs are it. I would say that anything over the 5% stiffer spring rate that you need to start dialing in some uprated dampers. If you are building a track or serious autocross car, I would not use a set of lowering springs. At that point, I would be looking at a matched set of replacement springs and dampers or a matched set of fully adjustable coil-overs and adjustable spring perches. If you are really getting serious, double adjustable dampers. You would be at the point of fine tuning corner weights, suspension geometry, and damper rates. For me and my one autocross a year, the Mountune springs and factory dampers are perfect. Having autocross on both stock and Mountune springs, I did not notice any decrease in handling with the Mountune springs. I am so rusty with only getting out once a year that springs aren't my limiting factor.

I would also shy away from the Eibach or Cobb springs, if you wanted to really get into autocrossing or track use. They are great for street use, but I would imagine they are make the over damped factory dampers even more pronounced. I have installed dozens of different springs over the years and the Mountune springs are probably the first set that I was happy with right out of the box. Usually, I end up doing springs and then finding dampers and then finding stiffer springs and better dampers. It is expensive and sucks. When you finally get it right, it is a nice feeling. With the Mountune springs, they are right when you install them (unless yours sits higher than stock, then they are not right).

Great info man... but if the Mountune are 1.1" drop and stiffer over the Eibach's 0.8" drop and softer rate, shouldn't the factory damper handle the Eibach well too? Not that I really care about longevity that much, I figure the factory dampers will be shot by 40k miles anyway, just curious...

 

[kevinatfms]

Look, the point is you started using foul language and got butt-hurt because you were quoting wrong numbers that could give people the wrong impression and I simply corrected you and not in a snarky way either... There is definitely room for debate, but some people just want a little more give on their daily drive and most feedback says that even the Eibach helps with body roll over stock, but yes, initial turn in and perhaps all-out racing it's not the best choice. I completely agree that Swift is the only way to go if you want track handling AND livable for daily street use too, those ST are indeed too stiff unless it's a dedicated track car. Looking at them I don't see the curves a progressive spring would, highly doubt either end is progressive... Anyway, we pretty much agree here, sorry if you think I was snarky just by correcting your numbers, but you also helped by confirming they are the best for daily comfort and I appreciate that!

You just wont shut your mouth...SMFH. If you cant handle the foul language then go to your safe space. The internet is not it.

Again, you state that Eibach helps with body roll. It does not. It induces MORE body roll with a softer initial rate. I might have gotten the initial rate number wrong but the fact that 109lbs-in does not reduce body roll. Initial turn in is worse than stock, body roll is increased and the car has very unpredictable push that you can feel on a backroad.

Im not talking about all out racing either. Im talking canyon carving, autocross, highway off ramps, HPDE's. Everything the Fiesta is supposed to shine at.

 

[Ford ST]

You just wont shut your mouth...SMFH. If you cant handle the foul language then go to your safe space. The internet is not it.

Again, you state that Eibach helps with body roll. It does not. It induces MORE body roll with a softer initial rate. I might have gotten the initial rate number wrong but the fact that 109lbs-in does not reduce body roll. Initial turn in is worse than stock, body roll is increased and the car has very unpredictable push that you can feel on a backroad.

Im not talking about all out racing either. Im talking canyon carving, autocross, highway off ramps, HPDE's. Everything the Fiesta is supposed to shine at.

Absolutely the Fiesta ST is not a comfort car was never meant to be, if that's what you want you got the wrong car. With that said if someone wants to make their car softer go ahead, I have no problems with that. Do I think it's a rough ride, god no anyone who does should drive my work truck, they would be in tears. I personally have no issues with your language. Statistically people who uses four-letter words are more honest and trustworthy.

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[BRGT350]

Great info man... but if the Mountune are 1.1" drop and stiffer over the Eibach's 0.8" drop and softer rate, shouldn't the factory damper handle the Eibach well too? Not that I really care about longevity that much, I figure the factory dampers will be shot by 40k miles anyway, just curious...

Without getting seat time, my gut feel is that the Eibach springs may be too soft for the factory dampers. If increasing spring rate by 5% balances the factory dampers, then decreasing it should make the car feel over damped. I would say the Eibach springs are a good match for the Ford Racing Fiesta handling pack dampers. Those are between a standard Fiesta and the ST. Anything stiffer than the Mountune, then I would move to higher performance dampers.