Oil catch can/Separator

[MOFiST]

that was very helpfull. thanks for the reply. would i be rite to think its impossible to vent to atmosphere on pipe 1 without removing the pcv valve all together, as it would never have a vaccum if u were to block off the manifold.

It won't vent as effectively out of the PCV either way even if you remove the valve due to no vacuum. Out venting PCV oil/fuel mist may be splashed into the engine bay also.
However a few guys are running this set up though like [MENTION=505]XuperXero[/MENTION] and I think re-rx7 does as well and both testify their cars run fine.

that was very helpfull. thanks for the reply. would i be rite to think its impossible to vent to atmosphere on pipe 1 without removing the pcv valve all together, as it would never have a vaccum if u were to block off the manifold.

 

[MOFiST]

Um, no. You're right, I wasn't clear that you can't tune away buildup. A custom tune will have your engine running more efficiently based on the octane that your engine actually sees.

Judging on [MENTION=1094]JPGC[/MENTION] and his valve build up you may be right as well. Atomised mist is getting through anyway and burning on the valves. Hard to say how much the catch cans are doing? They catch gunk I know but port cleaning may be the only real long term solution.

 

[dyn085]

Judging on [MENTION=1094]JPGC[/MENTION] and his valve build up you may be right as well. Atomised mist is getting through anyway and burning on the valves. Hard to say how much the catch cans are doing? I hope it does but port cleaning may be the only real long term solution.

The FoST community is starting to come around to understanding that as well, finally. Not that all of the OCC supporters are gone, but many people are beginning to understand their ineffectiveness. They see oil in their can and think things are all good, but that exact oil would have been drained back into the pan on the OEM system anyways. All you're doing with a catch-can is adding the manual labor and cost of the setup.

It gives peace of mind to some, but I would rather save the money and labor and just be aware of the fact that, at some point in time, I will be needing my valves cleaned if I keep the cars that long. That's the unfortunate part of DI ownership. The only way to keep the valves semi-clean would be through the use of an aux-fuel or meth setup, and even then you're going to have to do a lot of WOT to mitigate the issue.

Realistically-speaking, the Ecoboost engines are faring way better than most of its DI predecessors. At least we have that going for us.

 

[XuperXero]

It won't vent as effectively out of the PCV either way even if you remove the valve due to no vacuum. Out venting PCV oil/fuel mist may be splashed into the engine bay also.
However a few guys are running this set up though like [MENTION=505]XuperXero[/MENTION] and I think re-rx7 does as well and both testify their cars run fine.

Converted to closed loop today. Will report how it goes after running a while.

 

[dw2b22]

The FoST community is starting to come around to understanding that as well, finally. Not that all of the OCC supporters are gone, but many people are beginning to understand their ineffectiveness. They see oil in their can and think things are all good, but that exact oil would have been drained back into the pan on the OEM system anyways. All you're doing with a catch-can is adding the manual labor and cost of the setup.

It gives peace of mind to some, but I would rather save the money and labor and just be aware of the fact that, at some point in time, I will be needing my valves cleaned if I keep the cars that long. That's the unfortunate part of DI ownership. The only way to keep the valves semi-clean would be through the use of an aux-fuel or meth setup, and even then you're going to have to do a lot of WOT to mitigate the issue.

Realistically-speaking, the Ecoboost engines are faring way better than most of its DI predecessors. At least we have that going for us.

There is no provision even on a stock pcv setup for the oil to drain back into the pan it gets burned in the combustion process and burning oil will leave deposits no matter what type of oil you are running. Vta fist and Fost guys are catching oil in there cans with no side effects other than the guarantee of no oil coaking the turbo or building of oil deposits on the valves

That's not to say that it will prevent all of the build, up but it will help. I know of a ton of various cars all running vta with no side effects and they are still catching oil in there cans

 

[dyn085]

There is no provision even on a stock pcv setup for the oil to drain back into the pan it gets burned in the combustion process and burning oil will leave deposits no matter what type of oil you are running. Vta fist and Fost guys are catching oil in there cans with no side effects other than the guarantee of no oil coaking the turbo or building of oil deposits on the valves

That's not to say that it will prevent all of the build, up but it will help. I know of a ton of various cars all running vta with no side effects and they are still catching oil in there cans

You'll want to look at the system again. If the cars were burning the amount of oil that some claim to be catching, it would be a serious problem. Cars would be blowing white smoke all the time and owners would be trying to warranty due to oil consumption. As it stands, I've yet to hear those complaints.

I never said there were negative side-effects of running an OCC outside of the cost and the labor to install it and repeatedly check/dump oil. There's just not going to be a benefit outside of a false sense of security.

 

[dw2b22]

The most I have seen is 3-4 Oz in a period of 1500 to 3000 miles even triple that amount would never cause a car to smoke. S2000 and rotaries loose 1-2 quarts per oil change. they even have it in there owners manual. And they don't smoke... well at least most of them. Fist owners have reported less black suit or whatever it is on the rear bumper after a catch can install

 

[dw2b22]

I don't see how almost every modified car in almost every configuration use occ just for a false sense of security

Catch cans do work it is a matter of if vta or in line with a vacuum works better

 

[MOFiST]

You'll want to look at the system again. If the cars were burning the amount of oil that some claim to be catching, it would be a serious problem. Cars would be blowing white smoke all the time and owners would be trying to warranty due to oil consumption. As it stands, I've yet to hear those complaints.

I never said there were negative side-effects of runing an OCC outside of the cost and the labor to install it and repeatedly check/dump oil. There's just not going to be a benefit outside of a false sense of security.

I'm thinking the oil that was caught in the catch can is going to the intake manifold which in turn is going into the combustion chamber. So less oil onto the valves is less build up by my loose logic. Emptying the occ every 3k-5k miles isn't really that much work. And a decent occ isn't that much and can be reused on your next car as I have done.

 

[Chris G]

I'm thinking the oil that was caught in the catch can is going to the intake manifold which in turn is going into the combustion chamber. So less oil onto the valves is less build up by my loose logic. Emptying the occ every 3k-5k miles isn't really that much work. And a decent occ isn't that much and can be reused on your next car as I have done.

That's what I have gathered up to this point too but would be open to listen to others thought and logic

 

[dyn085]

Like I said, it's no bother to me if others want to do it. I have plenty of friends in the VW/Audi community with more experience than I do on it and they all have me the exact same recommendations-don't waste your money. If there was an appreciable gain in anything I would recommend it, but there's not so I don't. Like I said, even the FoST community is coming around to the same realization now after having been much more pro-OCC in the beginning.

This isn't the first year that Ecoboost has been in production, and in the six-seven years that they've been produced Ford has yet to install one OEM. I rarely use the 'OEM knows best' as a reason, but considering the amount this problem exists within the DI community you can be assured that, without a doubt, Ford put money into trying to solve this problem, and that is noted by how well the Ecoboost is doing with buildup compared to other manufacturers. If it was as simple as a $200 setup (which would ultimately be significantly cheaper for them because they are a manufacturer) you could pretty much guarantee that we would be seeing them from the factory.

I would feel differently if we had problems with fuel dilution. I would even say that it could be beneficial to people that commute such short distances that their oil doesn't get up to operating temperatures. Outside of that, the best defense for the majority of owners is going to be using a quality oil with a low-NOACK score, changing your oil when it needs to be changed (not too early or too late), and getting your oil up to operating temperatures as much as possible.

 

[dyn085]

I don't see how almost every modified car in almost every configuration use occ just for a false sense of security

Catch cans do work it is a matter of if vta or in line with a vacuum works better

Again, there are reasons to run an OCC. Fuel dilution? Yes. Excessive condensation due to excessive short trips? Yes. Trying to get maximum power out of your BT and want to ensure you are getting every possible bit of octane from your fuel? Yes.

Trying to combat buildup on intake valves? No.

 

[dw2b22]

Well I will have to disagree until there is absolute proof that oil being burnt in the combustion chamber does not prevent carbon build up. Another great reason would be to prevent the build up of oil in the intercooler and coaking of the turbo.

The most blowby the system will see is under boost when hose 1 will be useless therfore venting all the gasses/ oil directly into the turbo/intercooler via hose 2

Good discussion though

 

[CanadianGuy]

Well here is a lengthy article on the Ford ecoboost. Granted it is a few years old and about the 3.5. Bust since Ford is putting the ecoboost in everything they have vested interest to keep it working well.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/musc...d-bare-in-front-of-live-audience/489211124997

 

[dw2b22]

Yeah I have seen that but something about being tested for 150,000 miles on an indoor engine dyno doesn't simulate all the dirt and debris of the real world. My honda had less carbon build up after 326,000 miles than some of the focus st's have at under 20k

 

[dw2b22]

And the carbon issue are causing real world problems with hesitation and misfires in ecoboost engines

 

[CanadianGuy]

Yeah I have seen that but something about being tested for 150,000 miles on an indoor engine dyno doesn't simulate all the dirt and debris of the real world. My honda had less carbon build up after 326,000 miles than some of the focus st's have at under 20k

hmm you did read they used on on the "SCORE Tecate Baja 1000 in just over 38 hours" The engine was all over the place. Yes a lot in the lab but also in real world to.

 

[dw2b22]

Right they did test it in the real world but If if I recall it was only something like 14-15k. look I am not saying that they are bad engines just that they suffer from deposit build up. If you don't think that this much carbon build up on a intake valve will affect performance then... well I don't know what to tell ya

 

[CanadianGuy]

Don't get me wrong, i'm just providing information no vested interest, I prefer people to make their own mind based on what that have gathered. I plan on doing the OCC. I doubt the OEM would ever add one as the average person/oil shop would never drain it.

The one thing I think we can all agree is since Ford is putting ecoboost on everything including daily drivers they will improve the technology greatly AND eventually (i hope) provide a certified cleaning method.

 

[dyn085]

Yeah I have seen that but something about being tested for 150,000 miles on an indoor engine dyno doesn't simulate all the dirt and debris of the real world. My honda had less carbon build up after 326,000 miles than some of the focus st's have at under 20k

You're right, but dirt and debris isn't the issue. Also, was your Honda DI?

And the carbon issue are causing real world problems with hesitation and misfires in ecoboost engines

Nobody is disagreeing with the fact that there is buildup. Again, this is an inherent issue with DI engines.

For someone to be having issues at 20k I would want to know two things: 1) What is the average daily commute (i.e., short 5 mile trip in town, 30 mile commute on highway, etc.)? 2) Describe your break-in.

I've seen a lot of people post about how they're seeing oil in the intake tract, charge pipes, and FMIC. To me, this indicates a problem. Considering the relatively young age of these vehicles, that makes me wonder if break-in has a part in the oil issue people are trying to combat. I've also seen some pretty high-mileage cars, none of which have heard the sky-falling tales of catch-can requirement, and none of which are having misfire issues. This tells me that, like I keep saying, getting your engine up to temperature often is highly important.

Right they did test it in the real world but If if I recall it was only something like 14-15k. look I am not saying that they are bad engines just that they suffer from deposit build up. If you don't think that this much carbon build up on a intake valve will affect performance then... well I don't know what to tell ya

This isn't even remotely close to some of the MS3's at 20k.

Edit didn't work. Stupid Tapatalk.