Oil catch can/Separator

[MOFiST]

Yep. I know about the baffled passage the crank vent has. So yeah it's good to know it's doing it's job. Cheers Dave [emoji14]

 

[GoMax]

As I said, I see how some air can be siphoned through that hose under load but I wouldn't think much.
I have had my intake tube off many times and I have never seen it wet.

Did you know that there is a factory oil separator on the engine?
I would post a picture but I am at work an no access to the shop manual.



Dave

Dave,

No need to post pics, I have seen several pics posted (thanks Rodmoe) of the oil separator (maybe even in this thread).
I do appreciate the help / advice.

 

[rodmoe]

Ok let me understand the two blue lines may or may not need OCC's as the allow oilly air into the intake which is bad for combustion and makes a mess of heat transfer valve stems and what not.. we all agree oil vapor in the intake Bad..
Ok as marked in the pic the YELLOW line allows oily air to be pulled up from the crank case baffle where I bet A lot of the oil vapor and crud comes from due to the blow by Turbo engines must see under full boost. And we all know nature abhores a Vacuum so the air must flow from the engine crankcase vent in the center on the cam/valve cover to the area of lower pressure in this case either end of the cam cover where there would be a vacuum pulled by the intake of the Turbo or manifild (under closed throttle conditions or NO boost under boost the pcv check valve should close to prevent boost pressure into the cam cover.
So to be totally safe I would have to say the two blue line could use either a Vent to Atmosphere or Oil Catch Cans solution if you are looking to most or alot of the oilly residue out of the intake.

Now looking at this if you block off both intake paths and vent to Atmosphere does the ECU see the lose of air because under vacuum it must pull a good amount of air through those openings.. not a big deal it must know as it still runs right ? lol
food for thought good discussion here too btw

 

[CanadianGuy]

Ok let me understand the two blue lines may or may not need OCC's as the allow oilly air into the intake which is bad for combustion and makes a mess of heat transfer valve stems and what not.. we all agree oil vapor in the intake Bad..
Ok as marked in the pic the YELLOW line allows oily air to be pulled up from the crank case baffle where I bet A lot of the oil vapor and crud comes from due to the blow by Turbo engines must see under full boost. And we all know nature abhores a Vacuum so the air must flow from the engine crankcase vent in the center on the cam/valve cover to the area of lower pressure in this case either end of the cam cover where there would be a vacuum pulled by the intake of the Turbo or manifild (under closed throttle conditions or NO boost under boost the pcv check valve should close to prevent boost pressure into the cam cover.
So to be totally safe I would have to say the two blue line could use either a Vent to Atmosphere or Oil Catch Cans solution if you are looking to most or alot of the oilly residue out of the intake.

Now looking at this if you block off both intake paths and vent to Atmosphere does the ECU see the lose of air because under vacuum it must pull a good amount of air through those openings.. not a big deal it must know as it still runs right ? lol
food for thought good discussion here too btw

I suspect that a 3 way catch can could work for the 2 blue lines or are they under different pressure/timing?

 

[OCDFist]

My #2 hose from the valve cover to the intake tube was dry @ 4,000 miles. I'd say that hose won't see oil until many many miles down the road and blow-by becomes an issue. Venting this line to atmosphere and blocking the intake tube port has not changed anything on my car, smell or otherwise. I like having the pcv tube connected to vacuum vs VTA for now, because my car is under vacuum 98% of the time. I just need to get a can on there & catch the oily vapor.

7.3L Powerstrokes have the same sort of tube going to the intake airbox and were wet all of the time. Different animal, though. GM LS engines also have a huge intake-cleaning issue after a certain number of miles, if I remember correctly.

 

[rodmoe]

I suspect that a 3 way catch can could work for the 2 blue lines or are they under different pressure/timing?

The cam cover is open so they see the same pressure provided the check valve holds

Here is the underside drawing of the cam cover looks open to me

 

[D1JL]

From past experience.
I do know that the PCV is a metered vacuum leak.
Using a different valve or leaving it disconnected may turn on the MIL.
Venting things to atmosphere could also set a code.

These new cars are very touchy as they are designed not to be tampered with by people like us.



Dave

 

[MOFiST]

Dave has a point I think might be more of an issue for the non US MAF tuned cars. This is a sealed system from factory and anything VTA can bring in unmetered or lose metered air. MAF tuned cars are very sensitive to this from my part experience.

 

[rodmoe]

Dave has a point I think might be more of an issue for the non US MAF tuned cars. This is a sealed system from factory and anything VTA can bring in unmetered or lose metered air. MAF tuned cars are very sensitive to this from my part experience.

Yup thats what I was thinking too..

 

[RAAMaudio]

I pulled my DIY intake off as pulled the Cyborg, manifold, etc to ship it all out and there is a bit of oil in #2 and a bit inside the intake tube heading to the turbo inlet, not a great deal but there is some present.

2.2k total miles, 1k break in, 400 or so hard track use and tuning runs.

 

[dw2b22]

Hello first post... yay but just to add my 2 cents I installed a occ vta from hose 1 (pcv to intake mani) and 2 days later I inspected hose 2 (valve cover to intake) and noticed a small amount of water with some oily residue floating on top. Probably less than a 1/3 a teaspoon

 

[OCDFist]

Dave has a point I think might be more of an issue for the non US MAF tuned cars. This is a sealed system from factory and anything VTA can bring in unmetered or lose metered air. MAF tuned cars are very sensitive to this from my part experience.

true stoy, don't do any venting to atmosphere on a mass-air car unless the ecu knows it.

 

[dw2b22]

I haven't read of any trouble in the Fost or fist pages of guys running vta... unless I missed something

 

[Sekred]

This is a great picture, Thanks Sekred for the image!
There are two Vent lines to discuss here.

#1 is on the left in the picture. It goes from the PCV Valve near the back of the engine, along the vent hose, and into the Intake Manifold.
This vent hose is where we have all been installing our OCC's, for good reason. During low boost or no boost (idle) conditions, the majority of the Crank vented Oil goes along this path. Putting an OCC here helps to pull that airborn oil out of the system, preventing it from hitting the back of our intake values (hence - hopefully - preventing carbon build-up on our intake valves)

#2 is on the right in this picture. It goes from the Valve Cover to the Air Intake (just upstream of the turbo).
This vent hose is where oil goes when we are under boost @ the intake manifold.
I'm NOT SAYING the valve cover is under pressure.....
Under boost, we have a HUGE Vacuum on the Air Intake side, and oil vapor is pulled from the valve cover into the air stream headed towards the turbo (and more importantly - our inter-cooler).

I can understand the need (and desire) for an OCC on line #1. It keeps excess oil from entering the intake, and carbonizing our intake valves.
There is clear evidence from users that these OCC's do capture airborn oil.
For line #2, having an "oily" airstream (let's ignore that its HOT air coming from the Valve Covers) headed to the turbo - and then into the Intercooler - seems like another bad situation.
Especially if we want to keep oil out of our air stream (both under vacuum and under boost)

Question: Wouldn't adding a second OCC to line #2 protect the inter-cooler from getting gunked up with oil residue? .... and out of our intake Valves?
I believe this line is not under pressure (when we are under boost), so the OCC would act similar to the OCC in line #1 (?)

The CFM Baffled Valve Cover vent might / should allow you to remove line #2, and just Vent the air to atmosphere. However, if you don't want to VTA, I think installing a second OCC in line #2 would be important.

I already plan to install an OCC on line #1. Worth it to do so in line #2?

-- Max

Hi Max

In theory you could use a catch can in line 2. How much oil you collect really comes down to how long the engine is under boost when the PCV valve is closed. Now your typical road car spends a lot more time running with manifold vacuum with the PCV valve open. If your competing at track days with more boost application you will get more blow-by venting through line 2 and more oil mist finding its way into the turbo/intercooler and intake manifold.
Keep in mind that the PVC system is designed as a closed-loop system and is very effective at purging blow-by/condensation and unwanted contaminants from the crankcase.
The problem with running 2 catch cans is cost and finding enough room in the engine bay for a second catch can.

 

[dw2b22]

That's what I got. Anybody see any problems with that design If you are vta

 

[GoMax]

I pulled my DIY intake off as pulled the Cyborg, manifold, etc to ship it all out and there is a bit of oil in #2 and a bit inside the intake tube heading to the turbo inlet, not a great deal but there is some present.

2.2k total miles, 1k break in, 400 or so hard track use and tuning runs.

RaaM,

Knowing you, that means your car has been run under high boost quite often, and subsequently high vacuum on line #2.
Given you've seen oil there (and ultimately down the turbo / intercooler ), perhaps it makes sense to have a second OCC IF YOU ARE OFTEN UNDER BOOST.
Its probably not called for under daily driving, hmmm...

-- Max

 

[dw2b22]

Here is my setup ignore the lack of clamps this is just mock up. I have noticed oily water in my intake hose hence the duel setup

 

[XuperXero]

Dave has a point I think might be more of an issue for the non US MAF tuned cars. This is a sealed system from factory and anything VTA can bring in unmetered or lose metered air. MAF tuned cars are very sensitive to this from my part experience.

Running catch can to VTA. No issues on my car here. No MIL, no choking, no loss of power. Runs like stock.

 

[MOFiST]

Running catch can to VTA. No issues on my car here. No MIL, no choking, no loss of power. Runs like stock.

I think in certain configurations it could be a problem but yeah in your case obviously it isn't. The area I was thinking was that vent cap actually. It could potentially draw unmetered air through pipe 2 into the engine. However if you did what dw2b22 did a few posts back and plugged the intake it actually might work though as only blow by will vent to atmos. It would be interesting to try but I'm not in any rush to.

In your case perhaps the amount of air exiting in the blow by is not enough to cause the system any concern.

 

[D1JL]

Running catch can to VTA. No issues on my car here. No MIL, no choking, no loss of power. Runs like stock.

That is good to hear.
My other thought is that the P in PCV stands for Positive.
That is Positive Crankcase Ventilation.

Not only is VTA not smog legal but how is it as efficient in removing dangerous gasoline vapors out of the oil pan.

I don't know if any of you have ever seen an oil pan blow up?
I have.



Dave