PumaSpeed's x-47R Turbo / 100th Turbo Milestone

[M-Sport fan]

I already have my x47r here in the states. I plan on installing it within 2 weeks. Will be tuned on 91 and e30. Tune + will be my tuner. I am jumping from my trusty ole x37 to the 47r. I'm sure the power will be a noticeable change. I'll keep you all informed on the progress. The x37 is already spoken for so don't ask...lol.

Are you staying with the standard 11 psi actuator?

 

[PBST03]

Are you staying with the standard 11 psi actuator?

Yes the standard 11.

 

[Based]

we only run 11 psi at the most and have never killed a unit even flat out..

ok I am a noob... Can you just explain what you mean by only running 11 psi? I just don't understand how a wastegate spring dictates max boost... Or how a spring not opening up until 17 psi can kill a turbo.


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[PBST03]

ok I am a noob... Can you just explain what you mean by only running 11 psi? I just don't understand how a wastegate spring dictates max boost... Or how a spring not opening up until 17 psi can kill a turbo.


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If there is too much tension on the spring, it may not open under high boost to relieve pressure. That added build up of pressure can destroy turbos. A lighter spring like the 11psi spring is just right for x37s and 47s. If that helps at all. The 11psi spring is good for generally 26 to 28 pounds of boost in my experience. The 17psi spring takes a lot more boost and may not open under 26 to 28pounds of boost, causing back pressure and all sorts of issues inside turbo.

 

[Pumaspeed]

If there is too much tension on the spring, it may not open under high boost to relieve pressure. That added build up of pressure can destroy turbos. A lighter spring like the 11psi spring is just right for x37s and 47s. If that helps at all. The 11psi spring is good for generally 26 to 28 pounds of boost in my experience. The 17psi spring takes a lot more boost and may not open under 26 to 28pounds of boost, causing back pressure and all sorts of issues inside turbo.

Thats pretty much correct.

The following is based on an actuator set with 1-3mm of pre-load

The Turbo smart actuators are very progressive, an 11 psi actuator will start to open if 11psi of boost is allowed by the ecu to pass the boost solenoid. at 12 psi it will open another mm or two at 13psi another mm or 2 all the way to 23psi at which time it is fully extended to allow manifold presure to bypass the turbine shaft

So approximately 11-12 psi worth of travel on the actuator rod.

If a 17 psi actuator is installed then by the Turbosmart progressive actuator rule above (11-12 psi of travel), the unit will start to open at 17psi and at 11-12psi later 29 psi is fully open.

an X47 type of unit is made to constantly run 1.8 bar 25-26 psi..

just for information but what if you have a boost leak or vacuum pipe leak, with a 17 psi actuator the wastegate gate is pretty much locked shut and could be over spinning the turbo to destruction if a non mechanically sympathetic driver be using the car


Ohn most of the progressive road cars we tune in the UK we run either stock actuator which is full open by E11 psi or a Turbosmart 7 psi.
11PSI are for the real enthusiast but if my choice where available 10 PSI is where its at for the EURO type ECU..

 

[Tune+]

Not sure if it is this thread or another thread, but people keep asking why we sell 17psi actuators for the X37/X47. We don't, we never have, and we never will. The pressure is too high. People are getting us confused with DHM/SourSkittle/Cyborg, they put 17psi actuators on their turbochickens. Our actuators are catered to the turbo specifically to be mid-stroke at target boost pressure so it has room to go up and down if need be. All of our X37/X47/X47+ tunes are targeted to 23-24psi on pump gas, and 25-26psi on E30/Race-Gas/Methanol.

ISH tried selling our actuator as a 17psi actuator. He was shot on site, he is dead now. :-D

Good luck with the X47R, looks like one of the first ones arrived to my customer and we will be tuning it soon.

 

[Based]

Thanks guys for the information! That really helped me!!

Also: On the pumaspeed website there is an option for the 17psi one. It might be better to just remove the option.


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[Tune+]

Thanks guys for the information! That really helped me!!

Also: On the pumaspeed website there is an option for the 17psi one. It might be better to just remove the option.


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lol

 

[Based]

lol

What? I read your post. But the option is there on the pumaspeed site

It says either "standard actuator", "turbosmart 11 psi", or "turbosmart 17 psi". Is the standard actuator the 11psi one that is made specifically for the turbo? I always thought that the standard actuator was that you just take the actuator from your stock turbo and use it for the x47.

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[Tune+]

What? I read your post. But the option is there on the pumaspeed site

It says either "standard actuator", "turbosmart 11 psi", or "turbosmart 17 psi". Is the standard actuator the 11psi one that is made specifically for the turbo? I always thought that the standard actuator was that you just take the actuator from your stock turbo and use it for the x47.

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It was in response to your comment, not anything you did wrong. I found it funny that they suggested against something and had it as an option on their website.

 

[M-Sport fan]

It was in response to your comment, not anything you did wrong. I found it funny that they suggested against something and had it as an option on their website.

That's the way I understood your emoji choice.

The 17 psi could be a misprint, with them meaning to type 7 psi.

Either way, it should be corrected, quickly.

 

[Based]

It was in response to your comment, not anything you did wrong. I found it funny that they suggested against something and had it as an option on their website.

Oh ok lol yeah it is odd. They should just take it off. Less trouble for them.

And also I'm on my phone so I can't see the emoticons. I can only see the code for it so all I saw was lol

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[Based]

I just checked the website and they have removed it


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[XLR8]

Itching to see numbers on 93.....

 

[Blown]

Itching to see numbers on 93.....

+1

No E85 near me

 

[XLR8]

+1

No E85 near me

Yup. I was in hopes that the Sonoco near me would have 100 octane but even that is a no go. After selling my rebuilt C39 I have been lurking. I'm really looking at the MRX (as I always have been) and the new X47R. I may or may not pair one with a ported manifold or the Pumaspeed quickspool. Like others have said, the elephant in the room with hybrids is always reliability. I have owned dozens of Garrett turbos and they take the abuse. The only advantage I am seeing from the X47R is packaging, which is minor, and spool.

I grew up building Rx7's and turbo rotaries. One of the things I incorporated along that journey was pre-turbo water/meth injection. Preturbo has a lot of benefits if done correctly. Mainly, it extends the efficiency range of a compressor map. You can take a smaller framed turbo with fast spool, and make bigger power. It does this by super-cooling the air at the source, the compressor. The system I built did not use an electronic pump. It derived from an Australian that had great success with it. It uses boost and an industrial air atomizer to feed the mix into the intake pipe. Boost pressurizes a tank and feeds the air side of a nozzle. The meth mix goes into the other side of the nozzle. The water is controlled by a solenoid on a boost switch. The nozzles put out sub-20 micron which does not contribute to compressor wear. it is also advantageous because there is no pump to fail. The only electronic parts are a million cycle Bosch solenoid and boost switch.

Anywho, I have considered incorporating a system like this on the FiST. Time will tell.

 

[Dazzle]

Itching to see numbers on 93.....

Just read through this thread and people were talking about this at the back end of August. No progress since then?
Really interested in what this Turbo will do this side of the pond!?

 

[jeff]

Itching to see numbers on 93.....

Just read through this thread and people were talking about this at the back end of August. No progress since then?
Really interested in what this Turbo will do this side of the pond!?

I too have been following this thread along with the MRX thread. With both I ask, what's going on? All the talk and folks have ordered, it's been months, there is so little data and info out. How is the X47R different from the X47 or X47+? Are there any dyno results months later? Not being a jerk here, but it seems to me when you invest thousands in a turbo setup and get tuned you usually hit a dyno to see what you've achieved. I'm surprised that there's so little info here about this. I installed my X47and then went through 4 separate tune revisions, then drove 3 hours one way to a dyno, then posted results, all within maybe 2-3 months start to finish. So it's possible. Anyone?

Anyone?

 

[DaveG99]

I've heard that the x47r does not make any more power than than regular x47. And this is from a well known tuner

 

[jeff]

I've heard that the x47r does not make any more power than than regular x47. And this is from a well known tuner

I've heard that it's not any better from my tuner, who prefers the X47 as the best fit, quote from closed Vargas thread:

...for now our turbocharger of choice is the X47, not the + or the R, just the X47. It is the best combination for the stock turbine and compressor housing. Until new housings are casted, the limitations will forever be the stock housings.

Having said that, the X47 + and R do make more top end power, I believe, maybe 10-15hp. Whether or not that's too noticeable is the question. I've ridden in a car with the X47R with Puma's header (aka tubular manifold) installed as well, it was definitely a bit more crazy than my car with the X47. Not sure if it was the R or the header, probably both, but I think there is a difference. However I have also read in a few places that the bigger turbine in the R causes slower spooling. Not sure if that is true or not; in the car I rode in, maybe the header made up for it.

Side note, I can't confirm this but I think the X47++ is the same turbo as the X47R, only the R has the red housing. All these models are getting confusing, but I think that's the case.

Now, some copy and paste from Puma's website:

*****
We have used 3 configurations all listed below, all of which use the unique 45.1mm Turbine shaft with varying angles of clipping to the blades to add extra flow.

X- 47 (290-300whp) - Billet alloy wheel size 43.0mm tips 56.56mm base circle 53.00mm
X- 47 Plus (300-310whp) - Plus Version Billet alloy wheel size 45mm tips 59.34mm base circle 56.00mm
X- 47R (315-330whp) - Plus Version Billet alloy wheel size 45mm tips 59.34mm base circle 56.00mm

The new X-47R model features an fully hard anodised grey compressor cover and some new internal developments which will add extra flow to the Exhaust side. It also features the New Spec Race Red the Compressor wheel with red annodising which will feature in all further Larger spec X-47 variants.
*****

The X47++ is not listed anywhere, so I think it is the same as the R, only after they sold the ++ model they quickly did the paint job and relabeled it an R. However it says there are "new internal developments", who knows what that could mean, but apparently that is what distinguishes the + from the R, and birings 15-20 more HP.

I could be wrong but that's how it all makes sense to me. Really until we see dyno charts side by side to compare these 3 options, it's all speculation.