Confused about oil weights...help !

[apav28]

Mornin All......I did a forum search but did not find an answer concerning proper oil weight
for my '14 FIST. Both manuals (regular & ST specific) say to use 5W-20 yet manuals for
2013 and 2015 say to use 5W-30. Is there a difference in the motors?..or just a Ford mistake?

Thanks much !

apav28

 

[jmrtsus]

My 2016 Manual says 5W20......was no ST in '13. Where did you find 5W30 in the 2015 ST Manual? I didn't see it online but it could be in several places.

I believe the 20W is for fuel efficiency and 30W will not hurt the car, possibly a miniscule change in MPG. I don't think Ford gave up oil performance for mileage. I do think that is why they use a Titanium additive in the recommended oil for the improved wear resistance. With the newer oils thickness is not always a good thing and has little to do with protection, how well the oil coats, clings, resists shearing and wear resistance is a function of the additives and the base stock as long as we are talking the top tier Synthetic or Blend oils. The thinner the oil the better it is for both power and efficiency. Opinions on oils are a whole different subject.......I would follow your manual and not stress over it, just use a top oil, change it often and get a larger oil filter like the Motorcraft FL400S.

 

[apav28]

Thanks !!

 

[KKaWing]

North American manuals list 5w-20 for the '14-'16. The '17s listed 5w-30 as well as the 5w-20 for "Canadians". The European/World FiSTs list 5w-30 as an alternative through all years.

 

[jmrtsus]

FWIW...... plain and simple it boils down to Titanium additives for Ford Hi-Po engines, the Race GT's run Castrol Edge EP and the US ST's, RS and Mustang GT cars run Kendal, the only two to offer titanium additives. Tests by the U.S. Government (NIST) confirmed it does indeed reduce wear and friction. Since it is almost impossible to find the Motorcraft Full synthetic or the same oil branded as Kendall GT Max anywhere except on the internet the easiest one to get is the Castrol Edge EP with Titanium wherever it is on sale. Currently $25 for 5 qt jug at wallyworld. The Kendall GT-1 MAX full synthetic can be had for less than $5 a qt. delivered online when on sale if you want it at your door for a case. As to weight I will stick to the recommended 5W-20 until I see a reason to switch and these two oils.

 

[Rico]

The 2017 Fiesta ST supplement does indeed mention both 5w-20 & 5W-30.
I'm not generally prone to OCD behavior, but engine oil appears to be an unfortunate exception. Been hunting for a low NOACK and low SAPS oil, for my FiST, that is both attainable at ~ $6/qt, and meets the Ford WSS spec. I use Mobil 1 ESP 0-30 (Napa, often on sale, $5.79/qt) in our MY 15 Forester XT (also a turbo DI engine), but this stout 'Euro', low SAPS oil is ACEA C3 spec, and thus, non-conforming for the ST. Think I will circle back to Castrol Edge EP, and swear off BITOG...at least for a good bit.
Appreciate the options in this thread.

 

[koozy]

For those in the west coast interested in the Kendall product, your local 99 cents only store may have them for $2.99 a quart.

I use Castrol Edge 0W-40

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[Intuit]

Hmmm... 0-40 sounds like something worth trying.

The lower number is cold, the higher is hot.

Ears see what the eyes cannot. Top-end noisy when cold? Go lower on the first number; thinner. Top-end noisy when hot? Go higher on the second number; thicker.

You also don't have to go straight 5w or straight 10w. You can mix viscosity ratings to suit your auditory observations and find the proper balance for the season's conditions.

Personal opinion, the synthetics always seemed to thin; louder on top-end noise for late-Sping and Summer street applications.

 

[speed_easy]

Titanium additives

so what you are saying is that a small concentration of titanium oxide, TiO2, can help reduce the amount of friction in the engine under load and wear over time? source

How does Kendall and Castrol Edge EP fare for NOACK and SAPS?

My understanding is there is always some sort of trade-off when it comes to engine oil and that a silver bullet solution is few and far between. Thoughts?

 

[jmrtsus]

I am repeating what the U.S. NIST tests and fleet tests found. Kendall's formula is patented so I can't confirm what the actual titanium compound is, so is Castrol's. Kendall was first years ago and Castrol just jumped in I think last year. Apparently keeping the metallic titanium in solution is the challenge to using it in motor oil, I thought the oxide was used as a paint pigment.

I found the NIST test online and also at least one fleet test. One of them has electron microphotographs of the titanium actually embedded in a cylinder walls iron pores which is what does the friction reduction by providing a smoother, harder surface.



I have to buy oil, these two oils are not any more expensive than those that do not offer this, a no brainer to me. Ford could specify and buy any oil, they chose these two and after research I can see why. I am an advocate of good oil, filters and frequent changes. I don't think any top tier oil is bad just some are a little bit better. Everyone has opinions on oil, I like to see data as opposed to anecdotal opinions we so frequently hear about oils. How many version of "xyz oil causes problems in every engine and they have to rebuild them "all the time" and my (mechanic, brother in law, shop owner, race car driver, Tarot card reader, Priest, whoever!) said........blah, blah, blah?

 

[M-Sport fan]

so what you are saying is that a small concentration of titanium oxide, TiO2, can help reduce the amount of friction in the engine under load and wear over time? source

How does Kendall and Castrol Edge EP fare for NOACK and SAPS?

Castrol (and some others) are infamous for not giving NOACK numbers, along with other specs (V.I., HTHSV, starting TBN, etc.) us 'oil nerds' would want to know.

I never tried to get the Kendall GT1 specs, so I have no idea on that.

Pennzoil and Amsoil are known FOR giving NOACK numbers (among many other specs) on their products.

I would not worry too much about SAPS numbers, even with a direct injected turbo (unless you have an excessive amount of oil getting past the valve seals and top piston rings, and into the combustion chamber).

In any case, the Castrol Edge EP IS a very good oil, which exceeds the Ford 945 A spec, and the general consensus is that it does have some group 4 and 5 base stock in it's formulation (besides the great titanium additive).

 

[Sekred]

I don't know about Titanium Oxide but Zinc phosphate use to be used in higher ppm until the API decided regulate and reduce the amount of zinc in engine oil because of its affect on catalytic converters. Zinc phosphate was used because of its excellent anti frictional/wear properties. Maybe Titanium is the new Zinc.

 

[jmrtsus]

I don't know about Titanium Oxide but Zinc phosphate used to be used in higher ppm until the API decided regulate and reduce its use because of its affect on catalytic converters. Zinc phosphate was used because of its excellent anti frictional/wear properties. Maybe Titanium is the new Zinc.

Not so sure about the "new", Kendall introduced the titanium additive in 2008. I believe it was 2011 that the U.S. NIST confirmed the various benefits claimed by Kendall. I know that the Motorcraft Oil was Kendall in 2014 but do not know if it was before that 2014.

 

[Intuit]

I don't know about Titanium Oxide but Zinc phosphate used to be used in higher ppm until the API decided regulate and reduce its use because of its affect on catalytic converters. Zinc phosphate was used because of its excellent anti frictional/wear properties. Maybe Titanium is the new Zinc.

Besides sounding "gimmicky", this is the reason I've always avoided "high mileage" dubbed oils.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I don't know about Titanium Oxide but Zinc phosphate use to be used in higher ppm until the API decided regulate and reduce the amount of zinc in engine oil because of its affect on catalytic converters. Zinc phosphate was used because of its excellent anti frictional/wear properties. Maybe Titanium is the new Zinc.

The titanium IS a direct anti-wear/friction replacement for ZDDP (as well as 'dimer/trimer' molybdenum, antimony, boron, etc.).
It can also act as a type of detergent/dispersant (like; calcium, boron, magnesium, etc.) depending on the titanium compound used.

But NO additive will have ANY effect at all on catcon health/life unless oil is getting past the valve seals/top rings, and getting dumped into, and burned, or partially burned in the combustion chamber.

ZDDP has been shown to be very caustic/corrosive to the engine's components themselves, in the VERY HIGH concentrations (like >2500 ppm) as found in some of the pure race oils (and maybe even ABRASIVE in much higher concentrations than 2500 ppm).
These oils are NOT put into engines where there is any catcon to worry about, AND the oil is changed out at a MAX of 500 mile intervals, or maybe 12-24 hours if used in endurance racing.
These engines are also torn down and rebuilt after every race/event, so the crazy ZDDP levels do not have a chance to do any harm.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Besides sounding "gimmicky", this is the reason I've always avoided "high mileage" dubbed oils.

Titanium may sound "gimmicky", but it is a real (and very effective) anti-friction/anti-wear additive, just like the moly/ZDDP/etc. the oil industry has been using for many many decades.

Definitely NOT 'snake oil'.

 

[Sekred]

The titanium IS a direct anti-wear/friction replacement for ZDDP (as well as 'dimer/trimer' molybdenum, antimony, boron, etc.).
It can also act as a type of detergent/dispersant (like; calcium, boron, magnesium, etc.) depending on the titanium compound used.

But NO additive will have ANY effect at all on catcon health/life unless oil is getting past the valve seals/top rings, and getting dumped into, and burned, or partially burned in the combustion chamber.

ZDDP has been shown to be very caustic/corrosive to the engine's components themselves, in the VERY HIGH concentrations (like >2500 ppm) as found in some of the pure race oils (and maybe even ABRASIVE in much higher concentrations than 2500 ppm).
These oils are NOT put into engines where there is any catcon to worry about, AND the oil is changed out at a MAX of 500 mile intervals, or maybe 12-24 hours if used in endurance racing.
These engines are also torn down and rebuilt after every race/event, so the crazy ZDDP levels do not have a chance to do any harm.

All engines burn oil, I am referring to tiny amounts every time there is a combustion cycle. Oil is continuously deposited and scraped of the cylinders walls by the piston rings, its needed for lubrication and some of it ends up being burnt in the combustion chamber. Oil makes its way down the valve guides as well, because its also needed for lubrication. More oil ends up down the intake valve guide because of IM vacuum. Zinc was reduced by API (ppm) to extend the life of CATS and this caused some flat tappet camshaft failures mainly during run in, think big cam push rod V8s.

 

[M-Sport fan]

All engines burn oil, I am referring to tiny amounts every time there is a combustion cycle. Oil is continuously deposited and scraped of the cylinders walls by the piston rings, its needed for lubrication and some of it ends up being burnt in the combustion chamber. Oil makes its way down the valve guides as well, because its also needed for lubrication. More oil ends up down the intake valve guide because of IM vacuum. Zinc was reduced by API (ppm) to extend the life of CATS and this caused some flat tappet camshaft failures mainly during run in, think big cam push rod V8s.

OF COURSE, but, is it enough oil being regularly burned in a 'healthy' engine to actually have a detrimental effect on the catcon(s)??

Most of the big cam pushrod, modern day V-8s have hydraulic roller lifters (unless modded/converted by their owners to solid roller lifters), so the need for ridiculous amounts of ZDDP no longer exists, except in all-out, FULL RACE type, engines, or vintage/classic musclecars which have completely retained their 'true to the period' valvetrains.

Besides, I have seen studies which show that very high concentrations of ZDDP can actually hurt the function of said roller lifters (whether solid OR hydraulic), since it 'wedges up' under the leading edge of the lifter's roller, and actually stops it from rolling on the cam lobes as it's designed to do.

At that point it becomes, essentially, a solid tappet lifter in function, and wears out/gouges a 'slot' into the cam lobe even quicker than a flat tappet would, regardless of how much ZDDP is in the oil.

 

[Intuit]

Titanium may sound "gimmicky", but it is a real (and very effective) anti-friction/anti-wear additive, just like the moly/ZDDP/etc. the oil industry has been using for many many decades.

Definitely NOT 'snake oil'.

Not sure if you honestly misunderstood or this was a strawman argument.

Actually "High Mileage" does sound gimmicky. IT is also a known fact that the additives they increase for "high mileage" oils are bad for catalytic converters.

 

[jmrtsus]

Not sure if you honestly misunderstood or this was a strawman argument.

Actually "High Mileage" does sound gimmicky. IT is also a known fact that the additives they increase for "high mileage" oils are bad for catalytic converters.

Known by who? Any info on this claim?