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Mountune Fiesta MRX Turbo
- Thread starter Brura22
- Start date
"Turbine is for the exhaust side and is not custom made""Turbine is something that is acted upon by fluid" It is a standard GT2554R turbine wheel. I believe you are speaking in regards to the "Compressor wheel" in which yes it is custom. But unless they or their team have some serious CFD skills, I doubt they truly upgraded performance. (sorry just want people to know the correct nomeclature of turbo components),
I asked mountune directly for compressor maps, Inducer Measurment, Exducer measurments, Blade tip height and or the "E measurement" and the compressor wheel contour. The promptly ignored my request for that information. If they had used a CFD program to design the wheel, then they would have been able to provide compressor maps and data such as surge line, pressure ratio and Lbs Per Minute.
Just because it is "Billet" does not make it better. I sell around 15,000 turbos a year and have been certified by every turbo major vendor there is other than IHI and Mistubishi (bastards). Many people want "Billet wheels" but I generally steer them away for these reasons.
Billet is a very loose term and actually can hurt performance. Often times they are heavier than a cast compressor wheel which i am betting this one is infact heavier. It depends on the quality of the Billet as well. Generally with a Forged Milled aluminum wheel you can get a more aggressive blade profile, thinner outer bore and will be much stronger. Now if it was a FMW (Forged Milled Wheel) that was stronger, could hold up to over speed better and genuinely had a better Aero profile than the some 15 year old GT2554R then yes it could flow more. Generally when a company uses billet wheels, it is because it is cheaper to manufacturer a custom compressor wheel, then having molds made and having them cast from a foundry as well as much, much quicker. If they kept the same measurement listed below of the stock 2554R compressor wheel, more than likely it would just be better at surge reduction and noise more than anything. I also asked what kind of Balancing process they use for the rotating assembly, since every time you replace a major component of the CHRA, it is wise to do a re-balance especially the speeds that these turbos see. They also ignored supplying that information.
The stock GT2554R Compressor Wheel Specs=
Part #445347-0016 Model=T025 Trim=60 Exducer=54.00MM Inducer=42.11MM "E"= 9.96MM Length=24.48MM Blades=6 & 6 Contour=497974-0001 Bore Type=THRU-BORE Bore Diameter= 5.994MM Material=ALUMINUM
Turbine Wheel Specs=
Part #435813-0001 Model=BBT25 Stub Shaft Type=THRU-BORE Inducer=53.00 (MM) Exd=41.73(MM) Trim=62 Clip= 12.50 Blade Count=11 Casting Material=GMR 235
Since they are not using the factory actuator (the stock GT2554R has a straight rod that is non adjustable) I am un-able to provide any specs on it, but if I was to take a bet, something from Turbo Smart would fit. Something like this, depending on the MRX's rod length http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Pro...s/IWG75-Universal-150mm-rod-14-PSI-Black.html
Does anyone have the compressor cover off and is willing to get some quick measurements for me off the compressor wheel? Also measuring the Rod Length of the actuator?
I asked mountune directly for compressor maps, Inducer Measurment, Exducer measurments, Blade tip height and or the "E measurement" and the compressor wheel contour. The promptly ignored my request for that information. If they had used a CFD program to design the wheel, then they would have been able to provide compressor maps and data such as surge line, pressure ratio and Lbs Per Minute.
Just because it is "Billet" does not make it better. I sell around 15,000 turbos a year and have been certified by every turbo major vendor there is other than IHI and Mistubishi (bastards). Many people want "Billet wheels" but I generally steer them away for these reasons.
Billet is a very loose term and actually can hurt performance. Often times they are heavier than a cast compressor wheel which i am betting this one is infact heavier. It depends on the quality of the Billet as well. Generally with a Forged Milled aluminum wheel you can get a more aggressive blade profile, thinner outer bore and will be much stronger. Now if it was a FMW (Forged Milled Wheel) that was stronger, could hold up to over speed better and genuinely had a better Aero profile than the some 15 year old GT2554R then yes it could flow more. Generally when a company uses billet wheels, it is because it is cheaper to manufacturer a custom compressor wheel, then having molds made and having them cast from a foundry as well as much, much quicker. If they kept the same measurement listed below of the stock 2554R compressor wheel, more than likely it would just be better at surge reduction and noise more than anything. I also asked what kind of Balancing process they use for the rotating assembly, since every time you replace a major component of the CHRA, it is wise to do a re-balance especially the speeds that these turbos see. They also ignored supplying that information.
The stock GT2554R Compressor Wheel Specs=
Part #445347-0016 Model=T025 Trim=60 Exducer=54.00MM Inducer=42.11MM "E"= 9.96MM Length=24.48MM Blades=6 & 6 Contour=497974-0001 Bore Type=THRU-BORE Bore Diameter= 5.994MM Material=ALUMINUM
Turbine Wheel Specs=
Part #435813-0001 Model=BBT25 Stub Shaft Type=THRU-BORE Inducer=53.00 (MM) Exd=41.73(MM) Trim=62 Clip= 12.50 Blade Count=11 Casting Material=GMR 235
Since they are not using the factory actuator (the stock GT2554R has a straight rod that is non adjustable) I am un-able to provide any specs on it, but if I was to take a bet, something from Turbo Smart would fit. Something like this, depending on the MRX's rod length http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Pro...s/IWG75-Universal-150mm-rod-14-PSI-Black.html
Does anyone have the compressor cover off and is willing to get some quick measurements for me off the compressor wheel? Also measuring the Rod Length of the actuator?
Thanks for posting, your knowledge is greatly appreciated. How do you feel about a higher spring rate for the Wg? Would it help? THe Actuator rod looks to be two pieces with a adapter in the middle added for length. The actuator rod is also curved as it leaves the WG, mimicking the ATP 2860r 20-22 psi actuator. Since it uses the comp cover from its bigger brother. I still believe this turbo shouldnt die off as much as it does. If the gate doesnt work, this turbo is a huge fail.
This is the style
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-025&Category_Code=WGT
This is the style
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-025&Category_Code=WGT
Without seeing a compressor map, or even knowing inducer or exducer measurements it is hard to tell. Theoretically a stiffer sprung wastegate should increase boost capability. But there is going to be a limit, which will just put the turbo into overspeed and just stop creating boost and start creating heat exponentially. If they kept the compressor wheel the same size of the 2554R that has 27lbs per minute rating, it maybe all she has in her! Not to knock Mountune too hard since I do have some truly nice parts made by them on my vehicle, but I also need to question how they have setup the actuator. I am wondering if the actuator setup is allowing too much flex under hard pulls allowing the wastegate to move too much either in the linkage and or bracket. Though the bracket does look fairly sturdy. I have not found an A/R rating publish for the turbine housing and while I highly doubt it is the issue, but something to think about, is that maybe there is a back pressure issue not allowing the rotating assembly to exceed past a certain speed. If the turbine housing was designed with two tight of a volute, it may be not allowing enough exhaust gases through to push it further.
The simplest solution is to try a stiffer internal wastegate setup from Forge or Turbosmart. If it has any positive affects on creating more boost pressure than it will then be a test of "What is the true limits of this turbocharger". I think that if this turbocharger, if built correctly, has the potential of being decent but there are concerns for me, which is why I have held off on ordering it. If they were to go through the trouble of putting a billet wheel on, having housings both turbine and compressor side cast and just kept the compressor wheel size the same, it would be disappointing.
The simplest solution is to try a stiffer internal wastegate setup from Forge or Turbosmart. If it has any positive affects on creating more boost pressure than it will then be a test of "What is the true limits of this turbocharger". I think that if this turbocharger, if built correctly, has the potential of being decent but there are concerns for me, which is why I have held off on ordering it. If they were to go through the trouble of putting a billet wheel on, having housings both turbine and compressor side cast and just kept the compressor wheel size the same, it would be disappointing.
Yeah I can't to that. 300/300 on pump gas seems pretty good though. After really thinking about it this turbo and the spool up it has makes this much more drivable than the x-47. I can launch this car much harder and still get traction and the boost carries longer than the x-47. I don't want get into a pissing match over the x-47, but I have to believe if the guys a Mountune felt the 11 blade setup they built worked well in this turbo they would not have built it right? You wouldn't build junk then sell it. My buddies in Raleigh he used to drive a 450 cobalt and swears by this setup and I have never owned anything buy a supercharged setup. Maybe the 11 blade works better on the smaller turbo who knows. I just wanted to point out that the Mountune 2554r is not the same as the atp.
Oh yea the the t25 DSM comes to mind when talking about getting beyond a compressors efficency range. Chopping air instead of compressing it. On the bracket i wondered the same thing. The rod is LONG. Looks to have the spacer in the middle that allows it to still remian stiff.IT just connect the two rods. Very odd.
11 blade was intially for OEM specs. It's quiet and not prone to surge. It will not flow better.
You can upgrade the WG. You just cant upgrage the one on it.
11 blade was intially for OEM specs. It's quiet and not prone to surge. It will not flow better.
You can upgrade the WG. You just cant upgrage the one on it.
I'll have to take your word. Just because Mountune doesn't want to give you their maps doesn't mean it's junk right? Without challenging your knowledge which I can't do, it is not the same turbo as the one atp sells which was my point. No need to get into semantics.
Not sure I agree on your weight of materials but will go with you know more about turbos than I do 😀
Not sure I agree on your weight of materials but will go with you know more about turbos than I do 😀
By all means I do not know everything about turbochargers, though I am working on becoming "that guy who does". I do not mean to come across that way, unfortunately I just come across as such. I had to get help from a gentlemen who has been doing dealing with turbos for 53 years just on Tuesday who thoroughly made me feel inept on turbo info. But I do love learning and being proven wrong. 
And absolutely not, just because Mountune does not post compressor maps doesn't make it junk. They started with good bones which is a Garrett CHRA. But why tout the compressor wheel and not give specifics other than 11 blade and billet.
I will try to dig up some pictures that I have of the compressor wheel and material being used weight comparission I did for my and one of my co-workers own little self enjoyment. Billet aluminum generally is a denser per square inch material than cast aluminum because of the pourous nature of the casting process. Which is why Billet "generally" is stronger If manufacturers were flow forming compressor wheels then it would be a different story. So when you add a denser material, you will add mass, unless you can remove more mass then what was added. It can be done if you really shave away material away from the compressor wheel hub and the back face of the hub as well as making thinner blades.
I must also add that most billet compressor wheel manufacturers such as KTS and Wicked Wheels make the wheel taller (sticks further out the compressor outlet than normal) which again adds mass and does not add performance normally.
I should say I am a concerned hopeful that the MRX from mountune brings higher numbers than it has. I think a wastegate change will truly be that deciding factor. Sometimes my turbo knowledge is my hindrance and makes me doubt that smaller companies can produce something better in quality, performance and reliability than an OE like Honeywell turbo technologies or Borgwarner.
And absolutely not, just because Mountune does not post compressor maps doesn't make it junk. They started with good bones which is a Garrett CHRA. But why tout the compressor wheel and not give specifics other than 11 blade and billet.
I will try to dig up some pictures that I have of the compressor wheel and material being used weight comparission I did for my and one of my co-workers own little self enjoyment. Billet aluminum generally is a denser per square inch material than cast aluminum because of the pourous nature of the casting process. Which is why Billet "generally" is stronger If manufacturers were flow forming compressor wheels then it would be a different story. So when you add a denser material, you will add mass, unless you can remove more mass then what was added. It can be done if you really shave away material away from the compressor wheel hub and the back face of the hub as well as making thinner blades.
I must also add that most billet compressor wheel manufacturers such as KTS and Wicked Wheels make the wheel taller (sticks further out the compressor outlet than normal) which again adds mass and does not add performance normally.
I should say I am a concerned hopeful that the MRX from mountune brings higher numbers than it has. I think a wastegate change will truly be that deciding factor. Sometimes my turbo knowledge is my hindrance and makes me doubt that smaller companies can produce something better in quality, performance and reliability than an OE like Honeywell turbo technologies or Borgwarner.
The back plate being used makes me think otherwise in terms of the wastegate being able to upgrade the wastegate. It appears that it could support a different universal waste gate bracket, but the long rod needed will make it difficult. Possibly a BorgWarner EFR wastegate actuator will work since their wastegated turbine housings are extremely long.
Thread Starter
#617
By all means I do not know everything about turbochargers, though I am working on becoming "that guy who does". I do not mean to come across that way, unfortunately I just come across as such. I had to get help from a gentlemen who has been doing dealing with turbos for 53 years just on Tuesday who thoroughly made me feel inept on turbo info. But I do love learning and being proven wrong.
And absolutely not, just because Mountune does not post compressor maps doesn't make it junk. They started with good bones which is a Garrett CHRA. But why tout the compressor wheel and not give specifics other than 11 blade and billet.
I will try to dig up some pictures that I have of the compressor wheel and material being used weight comparission I did for my and one of my co-workers own little self enjoyment. Billet aluminum generally is a denser per square inch material than cast aluminum because of the pourous nature of the casting process. Which is why Billet "generally" is stronger If manufacturers were flow forming compressor wheels then it would be a different story. So when you add a denser material, you will add mass, unless you can remove more mass then what was added. It can be done if you really shave away material away from the compressor wheel hub and the back face of the hub as well as making thinner blades.
I must also add that most billet compressor wheel manufacturers such as KTS and Wicked Wheels make the wheel taller (sticks further out the compressor outlet than normal) which again adds mass and does not add performance normally.
I should say I am a concerned hopeful that the MRX from mountune brings higher numbers than it has. I think a wastegate change will truly be that deciding factor. Sometimes my turbo knowledge is my hindrance and makes me doubt that smaller companies can produce something better in quality, performance and reliability than an OE like Honeywell turbo technologies or Borgwarner.
And absolutely not, just because Mountune does not post compressor maps doesn't make it junk. They started with good bones which is a Garrett CHRA. But why tout the compressor wheel and not give specifics other than 11 blade and billet.
I will try to dig up some pictures that I have of the compressor wheel and material being used weight comparission I did for my and one of my co-workers own little self enjoyment. Billet aluminum generally is a denser per square inch material than cast aluminum because of the pourous nature of the casting process. Which is why Billet "generally" is stronger If manufacturers were flow forming compressor wheels then it would be a different story. So when you add a denser material, you will add mass, unless you can remove more mass then what was added. It can be done if you really shave away material away from the compressor wheel hub and the back face of the hub as well as making thinner blades.
I must also add that most billet compressor wheel manufacturers such as KTS and Wicked Wheels make the wheel taller (sticks further out the compressor outlet than normal) which again adds mass and does not add performance normally.
I should say I am a concerned hopeful that the MRX from mountune brings higher numbers than it has. I think a wastegate change will truly be that deciding factor. Sometimes my turbo knowledge is my hindrance and makes me doubt that smaller companies can produce something better in quality, performance and reliability than an OE like Honeywell turbo technologies or Borgwarner.
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That would be awesome. I think it would clear up a lot of doubts for people. I think for a good amount of people it will be enough horsepower as is. You seem to be quite content with its power levels and performance. But for the people who want just that much more without going the tubular manifold and full turbo route, this might be the ticket depending on exactly what the turbo is.
Thread Starter
#619
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...uct_Code=SPECL-BRACKET-9000&Category_Code=WGT
will probably solve any "bracket" problems people have with this WG
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-036&Category_Code=WGT
also maybe http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-032&Category_Code=WGT
will probably solve any "bracket" problems people have with this WG
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-036&Category_Code=WGT
also maybe http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-032&Category_Code=WGT
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