Ford will not install my down pipe with out a $130 reprogramming fee

[jfdana]

There seems to be confusion regarding just how the Mountune/Ford and original Ford vehicle warranties interact. The Mountune site warranty FAQ states:

Performance Packs and Components are warranted for factory-supplied material or workmanship when correctly and completely installed on a late model Ford vehicle by an authorized Ford or Lincoln Dealer, Shelby American, Inc., mountune LLC or an automotive service technician certified by the Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (ASE). This Performance Packs and Components Limited Warranty begins upon installation and registration of the part(s) with Ford Performance and remains in effect for the balance of 36 months or 36,000 miles / 60,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start date of the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Installation of these select Ford Performance and mountune warranted performance packs and components by an authorized installer will NOT void your New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Engine, driveline and suspension concerns not caused by the use of Ford Performance or mountune parts remain eligible for warranty coverage according to the terms of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Ford Performance and mountune parts are aftermarket parts. The use of Ford Performance and mountune parts may impact the performance characteristics of other systems of the vehicle. Even when operating properly, Ford Performance and mountune parts, such as these, have the potential to adversely impact other systems of the vehicle. If an adverse impact is caused by a warranted Ford Performance or mountune performance pack or component, the period and coverage of this Ford Performance Limited Warranty applies to the repairs.

So:

1. The statement about not voiding the original Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty ["NVLW"] merely restates Magnuson-Moss;
2. Mountune and Ford state clearly that even the MP 215 can "adversely impact," i.e., damage, other systems;
3. In which case, the "Ford Performance Limited Warranty" ["FPLW"] not the NVLW applies.
4. The duration of the FPLW is 36/36 from when the car was first registered ("calculated from the start date of the NVLW").

There are two separate warranties, and Ford will apply the FPLW (superceeding the NVLW) whenever Ford determines that the Mountune parts have adversely affected any other system. 36/36 vs. 5/60 for power train failures which Ford attributes to the MP215.

 

[70sstrat08]

Why do you still insist that it is TWO warranties? The Mountune parts are combined into ONE Warranty with the Ford warranty, not separated.

Here is the definition of "in conjunction with" from the web.

Definition of in conjunction with

formal
: in combination with : together with

The concert will be held in conjunction with the festival. The medicine is typically used in conjunction with other treatments.

I don't claim to be an expert on warranties, I do know I checked with Mountune and Ford directly prior to buying my car or the MP215 and I registered it with the Ford Warranty email address. I also called and spoke to the Ford employee that registered me and asked questions about how it all worked. I was going on a 4500 mile trip and wanted to know what to do if I had problems. Fords answer was; "take it to a dealer, they will run the VIN and see the additional Mountune equipment is listed and covered under your Factory Warranty then repair it."

I am trying to share with you how it works, even provide references and cut and paste from the Warranty document so you don't have to rely on my post as fact. At this point I give up, you seem to not understand that once registered Mountune is out of it......try Ford Customer Care or Mountune maybe they can explain it better so you can understand it.

It just doesn't matter, I said you're right.
At this point I just apologise to the OP.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Zormecteon]

Oh, .... When I took it to the Ford Racing Shop, they had never seen a Fiesta. When I handed over the key fob, I was asked .."Where's the key?"... They had no clue about the proximity locks on the doors even, BUT they did have a direct contact at Ford Racing "CENTRAL" for a better word. .. They knew who to talk to and what to ask about all the warranty stuff, and the mechanic was .. a MECHANIC! He was excited to see something different than the Cobra Jets, Mustangs, and other HI-PRO stuff that usually rolls thru. .. .. When he was done he said .. (I had the Inter Cooler and Quick Shift done at the same time) that these parts were a joy to work with because everything fit perfectly, just like OEM stock should fit. He said most aftermarket parts need a little fettling, but these needed none. NONE. That's what sold me on using mountune parts to near exclusivity. Not that other suppliers aren't, but theirs are, every time.

 

[Intuit]

Take it from another perspective. If I were a manufacturer, I wouldn't cover *anything* that was potentially affected by *any* modification. What? You installed a 1200W stereo system? Why the hell should I pay for your alternator, battery, belt and the labor to replace it? Why the hell should I as a manufacturer, pay, when some dingbat modifies a product that operates well within it's engineered parameters and then proceeds to junk it ?

As a manufacturer, that is a cost I do not want to have to pass on to customers, because it limits my ability to competitively price that product. I have to staff all sorts of extra people ranging in pay-grade, from call center reps, janitors to lawyers and consultants, just to handle the claims processing and subsequent investigations that result there-of. Dealerships won't want to carry it because of the after-sale support costs that they may not get reimbursed for.

Personally, if I were to modify (or abuse) my vehicle, I would personally elect to assume all drivetrain related risks. Just asking Ford, whether or not they want to pay for it, costs them (read: customers) money.

 

[jmrtsus]

There seems to be confusion regarding just how the Mountune/Ford and original Ford vehicle warranties interact. The Mountune site warranty FAQ states:

Performance Packs and Components are warranted for factory-supplied material or workmanship when correctly and completely installed on a late model Ford vehicle by an authorized Ford or Lincoln Dealer, Shelby American, Inc., mountune LLC or an automotive service technician certified by the Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (ASE). This Performance Packs and Components Limited Warranty begins upon installation and registration of the part(s) with Ford Performance and remains in effect for the balance of 36 months or 36,000 miles / 60,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start date of the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Installation of these select Ford Performance and mountune warranted performance packs and components by an authorized installer will NOT void your New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Engine, driveline and suspension concerns not caused by the use of Ford Performance or mountune parts remain eligible for warranty coverage according to the terms of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Ford Performance and mountune parts are aftermarket parts. The use of Ford Performance and mountune parts may impact the performance characteristics of other systems of the vehicle. Even when operating properly, Ford Performance and mountune parts, such as these, have the potential to adversely impact other systems of the vehicle. If an adverse impact is caused by a warranted Ford Performance or mountune performance pack or component, the period and coverage of this Ford Performance Limited Warranty applies to the repairs.

So:

1. The statement about not voiding the original Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty ["NVLW"] merely restates Magnuson-Moss;
2. Mountune and Ford state clearly that even the MP 215 can "adversely impact," i.e., damage, other systems;
3. In which case, the "Ford Performance Limited Warranty" ["FPLW"] not the NVLW applies.
4. The duration of the FPLW is 36/36 from when the car was first registered ("calculated from the start date of the NVLW").

There are two separate warranties, and Ford will apply the FPLW (superceeding the NVLW) whenever Ford determines that the Mountune parts have adversely affected any other system. 36/36 vs. 5/60 for power train failures which Ford attributes to the MP215.

I agree with all you say.....either way you the consumer have a FORD Motor Company warranty covering your car....which pocket the expenses come from in Ford is completely transparent and is just an accounting/tracking method. It is hard enough to try and get the info out that your warranty is never voided and you have a Ford warranty not a "Mountune" warranty due to dishonest people like the "vendor" quoted in this thread.

A few weeks ago there was a thread claiming that each dealer decided whether to honor the "Mountune" warranty because someone asked a Service Manager if "they honored the Mountune Warranty" .......and the Service Manager answered correctly, no! If you have a Mountune Warranty that is between you and Mountune. If a dealer installs your Mountune RMM or FMIC and it fails that is not their problem, you will have to get a replacement from Mountune and pay the dealer to remove and replace it. As to Mountune paying your labor costs that again is between you and Mountune. Ford does not deal with Mountune for warranty coverage, if you register the qualified parts then Ford covers your Mountune parts.

Thanks for helping clear this up for everyone!

 

[70sstrat08]

I agree with all you say.....either way you the consumer have a FORD Motor Company warranty covering your car....which pocket the expenses come from in Ford is completely transparent and is just an accounting/tracking method. It is hard enough to try and get the info out that your warranty is never voided and you have a Ford warranty not a "Mountune" warranty due to dishonest people like the "vendor" quoted in this thread.

A few weeks ago there was a thread claiming that each dealer decided whether to honor the "Mountune" warranty because someone asked a Service Manager if "they honored the Mountune Warranty" .......and the Service Manager answered correctly, no! If you have a Mountune Warranty that is between you and Mountune. If a dealer installs your Mountune RMM or FMIC and it fails that is not their problem, you will have to get a replacement from Mountune and pay the dealer to remove and replace it. As to Mountune paying your labor costs that again is between you and Mountune. Ford does not deal with Mountune for warranty coverage, if you register the qualified parts then Ford covers your Mountune parts.

Thanks for helping clear this up for everyone!

Lol now it's ok to say it's two separate warranty's. Glad we finally got there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[jmrtsus]

It doesn't really mater to me about the "two" warranties. The discussion on two was referring to a Mountune and Ford warranty, not Ford to Ford. To me Ford is a single entity. If you want to drag each individual warranty out of your FORD Factory Warranty you will find that your tire warranty is a separate document, I don't have the Recaro's but on my BMW with them years ago you also had a Recaro warranty and I believe it was the same with my Indy Mustang with Recaro's......but again is transparent under your Factory warranty. To the rest of us you have a Ford warranty, not a Ford/ Mountune/BF Goodrich/ whatever other third party parts warranty. I could care less which pocket Ford picks to pay for it. It is simply more confusion to add to the discussion. In general we refer to it as our Factory Warranty ....not Factory Warranties. It is hard enough to get some people to understand they are covered by Ford, much less which pocket pays or how many invisible "warranties" may be involved. So if you are happy with "2" warranties so am I. 3? Go for it. 4 with Recaro's? Have at it. Just don't try to claim you have a Mountune AND a Ford warranty on your MP215 or that Ford voids your Factory warranty with the MP215 or I may need another heart pill!

As a retired business owner it angers me when people or in this case a Vendor outright lies trying to damage another company. Especially one that makes more products for our car than any other third party supplier. I have never seen the quality issues that plague other suppliers (P144C??) for our cars from Mountune. That was all I was trying to clear up was the misinformation concerning Mountune not debate which Ford Division pays for what repairs, all that matters is I am covered for ALL by my FORD warranty. Or to be factual multiple warranties within our FORD warranty if that floats your boat, LOL!

Again, I thank you for your input because you were willing to show the correct info, not just an "understanding", I am not trying to argue with you, all you said is correct, it is just semantics. There is much good info on our Forum, unfortunately lots of shady info, and members that find it easier to ask someone else rather than simply check with the people that make the device! Off to a back country road for a drive, snow has melted and the road are empty in E. TN! Time for Fifi to stretch her legs.

 

[Nfazz]

Dunno when modifying cars in the past the warranty was the last thing I worried about. If it broke I fixed it and or upgraded it. I find it to be a strange mentality to buy "warranty approved" aftermarket parts but pay crazy labor to install it. All in hope to keep the factory warranty in place? Is it really that big of a deal? If you blow a motor with all those parts installed, I'm sure it would be a fight just to get them to even think about covering it. Just install it your self, save the labor cost and use that money to cover any failures. If a engine failure would financially hurt you in big way, don't modify anything. Or go buy a faster car from the get go and don't modify it.

 

[jmrtsus]

Dunno when modifying cars in the past the warranty was the last thing I worried about. If it broke I fixed it and or upgraded it. I find it to be a strange mentality to buy "warranty approved" aftermarket parts but pay crazy labor to install it. All in hope to keep the factory warranty in place? Is it really that big of a deal? If you blow a motor with all those parts installed, I'm sure it would be a fight just to get them to even think about covering it. Just install it your self, save the labor cost and use that money to cover any failures. If a engine failure would financially hurt you in big way, don't modify anything. Or go buy a faster car from the get go and don't modify it.

The MP215 from Mountune only adds 18 HP to your ST. As to "crazy" labor you have options. My labor costs for installation was 1 case of beer to the mechanic that inspected my installation and signed the paperwork. If you have it installed by an ASE mechanic labor should not be more than 1 hour and the same at a Ford dealer. If the parts are on the approved list of Mountune they are covered. No debate they are listed on your Ford warranty and covered. Anything but the "selected" Mountune parts will not be. As to why the warranty, some of us are on a fixed income like me. I do not want a surprise $5000 bill for my ST engine if something does go wrong. So yes to me the warranty was a prime consideration. When I was still working I was like you, a new car was just a building block and I never worried about a Warranty but I am retired now so priorities change. Wrench on!

 

[Nfazz]

I can see where you are coming from. But even with these parts there is no guarantee without a doubt. Its still a roll of the dice and only a false sense of security with "approved parts". I wouldn't gamble my money on a manufacturer covering anything with aftermarket parts bolted on, approved or not. Dunno seems like playing with fire when you are using a manufactures warranty as a safeguard. Best of luck and i'm sure nothing will go wrong, mountune makes quality pieces.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I don't have the Recaro's but on my BMW with them years ago you also had a Recaro warranty and I believe it was the same with my Indy Mustang with Recaro's

Just as a side note (and I know you were only using them as an example to make a point ), but I personally would NOT trust Recaro to warranty ANYTHING, going by my past experiences with them and their (VERY expensive) aftermarket seats!

Now they may be better, or at least more 'receptive' with their OEM factory installed product, I don't know, but it DID cause me to not even consider that option when ordering this car, along with the ridiculous price tag for their 'name'.

 

[jmrtsus]

I can see where you are coming from. But even with these parts there is no guarantee without a doubt. Its still a roll of the dice and only a false sense of security with "approved parts". I wouldn't gamble my money on a manufacturer covering anything with aftermarket parts bolted on, approved or not. Dunno seems like playing with fire when you are using a manufactures warranty as a safeguard. Best of luck and i'm sure nothing will go wrong, mountune makes quality pieces.

Please take 5 minutes to look at the warranty easily found at Mountune or Ford and parts were even posted on this thread and learn the facts instead of trying to convince people their Ford warranty is in some way a doubtful document, somehow "bogus". You don't need luck, you have a legal document from FORD! There is no "false security"....... it is the only mods with security.

 

[jmrtsus]

Just as a side note (and I know you were only using them as an example to make a point ), but I personally would NOT trust Recaro to warranty ANYTHING, going by my past experiences with them and their (VERY expensive) aftermarket seats!

Now they may be better, or at least more 'receptive' with their OEM factory installed product, I don't know, but it DID cause me to not even consider that option when ordering this car, along with the ridiculous price tag for their 'name'.

I loved the Ford Recaro's in my Indy Mustang, and the BMW 320 iS, tried the Focus/Fiesta ST Recaro's and did not like them as they lost size and adjustments and were hard as a rock. The seats in the BMW lasted over 30 years! Never could afford their seats except in factory cars!

 

[M-Sport fan]

I loved the Ford Recaro's in my Indy Mustang, and the BMW 320 iS, tried the Focus/Fiesta ST Recaro's and did not like them as they lost size and adjustments and were hard as a rock. The seats in the BMW lasted over 30 years! Never could afford their seats except in factory cars!

I'm glad you had a great experience with them in your Bimmer.

But their 'Avus' material, SPD (now "Speed") aftermarket recliner seat mounted in my Z28 was disintegrating within 2 years of installation, and they REFUSED to warranty them, or even sell me the cover/cushions to repair them myself.
$850.00 flushed down the toilet!!! NEVER AGAIN will I trust their products, regardless of aftermarket, or factory installation!

 

[Quisp]

I've heard of shops that, even with a signed waiver, will not install EPA/DOT emissions illegal items unless the car leaves their facility on a flatbed/trailer/etc., since they could be considered complicit (by the EPA/etc.) in the violations IF you drive it off of their property onto public roads, and be looking at a $10K+ fine.

Yeap they even had people from epa going to shops asking for convertor deletes than nailing them if they did.

 

[RobbyD]

Dunno when modifying cars in the past the warranty was the last thing I worried about. If it broke I fixed it and or upgraded it. I find it to be a strange mentality to buy "warranty approved" aftermarket parts but pay crazy labor to install it. All in hope to keep the factory warranty in place? Is it really that big of a deal? If you blow a motor with all those parts installed, I'm sure it would be a fight just to get them to even think about covering it. Just install it your self, save the labor cost and use that money to cover any failures. If a engine failure would financially hurt you in big way, don't modify anything. Or go buy a faster car from the get go and don't modify it.

Is it really a big deal if I blow the motor on my 2000 mile new car?? Yea it is. And I do have a faster car in my garage that I drive on the weekend. My ST is my daily and I want it to be reliable. I don't mind spending the money on mountune parts and paying the ford dealer to install them. My original question was about why the dealer wants to charge me a fee when installing the downpipe and what they are really reprogramming. Didn't realize my question would stir the pot this much with everybody

 

[jmrtsus]

Is it really a big deal if I blow the motor on my 2000 mile new car?? Yea it is. And I do have a faster car in my garage that I drive on the weekend. My ST is my daily and I want it to be reliable. I don't mind spending the money on mountune parts and paying the ford dealer to install them. My original question was about why the dealer wants to charge me a fee when installing the downpipe and what they are really reprogramming. Didn't realize my question would stir the pot this much with everybody

Anytime the word Mountune comes up people come out to put them down.

I believe your dealer knows or suspects you have a non-Mountune "tune" and wants to charge you to set it back to stock. If you are going to have the downpipe installed take it to an independant muffler shop. I wanted the dealer to cut the resonator out before I picked my car up and of course they politely declined but did tell me where the closest Midas was. Within minutes of picking up the car it was gone. If you have options find a Ford dealer that is big into selling and installing Ford Performance Parts. Only 1 of the 3 around me does and will gladly mod my car and promise no warranty problems even with the Ford Racing (off road) parts which confirmed what a friend with a highly modded F-150 told me. Many dealers do not try to find reasons NOT to take Ford warranty money, and keep customers that support their parts and service departments happy in the process. Try to find one.

 

[Bretley]

Is it really a big deal if I blow the motor on my 2000 mile new car?? Yea it is. And I do have a faster car in my garage that I drive on the weekend. My ST is my daily and I want it to be reliable. I don't mind spending the money on mountune parts and paying the ford dealer to install them. My original question was about why the dealer wants to charge me a fee when installing the downpipe and what they are really reprogramming. Didn't realize my question would stir the pot this much with everybody

I think everyone's still fired up from the elections. Lol

 

[RobbyD]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. I brought my car to the Ford dealer yesterday to get my mountune downpipe, intercooler/charge pipes, and rear motor mount installed. I was happy with the price they gave me. I got out the door at $535. I got the car back and loaded the stage 3 93 map right away. I have to say I was not impressed at all. I really cant tell the difference between stage 1 and 3. The most noticeable difference was the motor mount and the much lower charge temps. Wow what a difference with the mountune motor mount! Feels soooo much better! So I guess the next step is getting a custom tune. (sorry for the crappy pics)

 

[Quisp]

The weakness of ots tunes is well documented here .