I hate torque vectoring!!!1

[spoon]

My driver front wheel turned gold after a wet day at Laguna Seca. Wet day. With all the nannies off. Crazy.

There's got to be a way to disable torque vectoring. I want to get rid of it altogether. It's just not worth it for me. I mean, I get it. It "helps". But I am more than willing to drive-around not having it by, oh, I don't know, adjusting my driving style or throwing more tire at the car or adjusting my alignment settings.

Anyone have any ideas? Anyone else want to kill torque vectoring on this car? Anyone else feel the same as I do? If there are enough of us, can we petition Ford to make it defeatable?

I'm pretty serious.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Are you running an LSD?

 

[spoon]

Are you running an LSD?

Oh that's right! Forgot about that. The LSD basically eliminates torque vectoring, right? Ugh man that is like $3k at least because I will be having a shop perform the labor, and of course while they are in there gotta do the ST200 final drive. Oh and since the transmission is out might want to think about uprating the clutch and flywheel also.

All this, just so I can track the damn car without frying brakes and cooking wheels? I really wish Ford would give us a firmware update so we can simply hit a button and turn it off.

 

[jeffreylyon]

I'm not quite sure how torque vectoring works, but I think that it's an extension of traction control except that it tracks either steering wheel angle (but I seem to recall that the FiST doesn't have a sensor) or lateral acceleration and fires the inside brake if it senses wheel spin. A LSD would reduce wheel spin and, thus, reduce torque steer brake input.

If, indeed, torque steer fires on wheel spin, maybe you need to work on your exits? I went to the Wilwood BBK before my first HPDE so I'm not sure if I'm easy on the exit (I really try to avoid wheel spin) or if the Wilwood brakes are able to shed more heat that the OEM brake, but I seem to heat evenly left to right.

I did an A/C school where another FiST owner was spinning the shit out of his inside on the exit of an oval and, after 5-6 laps, would come in smoking his inside brake and only his inside brake. I was a lot more careful on the exits and didn't notice any brake problems at all, and this was before my BBK.

 

[KKaWing]

Might wanna give the accessport a try. The new COBB traction control seems to replace the brake based "e/fake/brake-LSD" with a spark based limiter. It allows the AP to set a "slip limit" then retard power without closing the throttle and nipping at the brakes. I think stratified has a video as well as their own settings for it.

[video=youtube;czGc2ZAm-UE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czGc2ZAm-UE[/video]

 

[spoon]

[MENTION=3995]jeff[/MENTION]reylylon, You're onto something. I'd like to pinpoint how exactly our torque vectoring works. If indeed the system works off wheel spin, then I would agree with you for sure. But I have also heard that our TVC is tied to ABS, and detects difference in wheel speeds that way. Gotta find an answer.

With all that said, it was a wet day and there was some wheel spin. But enough to cook a wheel... you think? It wasn't like I was lighting up my tires through turns or anything like that.

 

[spoon]

Might wanna give the accessport a try. The new COBB traction control seems to replace the brake based "e/fake/brake-LSD" with a spark based limiter.

Thanks for the video, I will check it out. I do have an Accessport as well, so I will give it a firmware update and see what I can do about working with their traction system. [emoji106]

 

[Zerodameaon]

There is a ABS module for B-Spec racing that gets rid of the TV. IDK if the TV processing happens in there or the ECU but that module has a lot to do with this. I cannot tell you it is safe to use this on the street though, so do your research.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...e-Kit-and-a-Ford-Racing-Brake-Controller.aspx

 

[Zerodameaon]

There is a ABS module for B-Spec racing that gets rid of the TV, TC, and ESC. IDK if the TV processing happens in there or the ECU but that module has a lot to do with this. I cannot tell you it is safe to use this on the street though, so do your research.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...e-Kit-and-a-Ford-Racing-Brake-Controller.aspx

 

[ian.j]

i thought we had found out if you pull the plugs from the traction control ecu down next to the hand brake it disables it all but leaves the abs working?

 

[CanadianGuy]

Brake cooling kit?

 

[Siestarider]

I run Quaife, WW BBK, and CMB cooling sheilds with ducts to front facia. Quaife was my first serious mod because I hated TVC on track. Did brake cooling setup about the same time, cheap mod. No more TV issues.

I would still be on factory front brakes but my rotors wore beyond spec and I had the used WW kit on hand so mounted it

I did a runout from turn 5 at PBIR when dampers were adjusted for maximum traction, nailed the apex at full power, drifted beautifully to exit and perfect line to turn 6, dropped left rear wheel barely off pavement and incurred the snap oversteer spin from hell (under full throttle).

Moral is don't hit dirt/runout while drifting sideways. And don't forget that when tuning for traction, leave a little room for yourself on exits just in case it works better than you expected.

 

[spoon]

There is a ABS module for B-Spec racing that gets rid of the TV.

Bam. I think this is the ticket. Ford Performance lists the part no. M-2C405-FAB as NLA, but it seems we can still find it either on Ebay or at random performance shops. I will keep digging around on this one, as I think this is the way to go.

Brake cooling kit?

Brake cooling is definitely in the plans, but the system will be installed with the express purpose of eliminating brake fade. I don't want to put a band-aid over the TVC.. I just want it gone. Know what I mean?

I run Quaife, WW BBK, and CMB cooling sheilds with ducts to front facia. Quaife was my first serious mod because I hated TVC on track. Did brake cooling setup about the same time, cheap mod. No more TV issues.

Yeah, that's about the result that I would expect from that combination of mods, particularly the Quaife. The BBK and the CMB ducting to cool the brakes I'm sure do wonders for you when you brake late and deep, while the Quaife takes care of the TVC.

I'm going to look into that Fiesta B-spec ABS module - M-2C405-FAB

 

[M-Sport fan]

Is the TVC just SO embedded/encrypted into the various on board computers by Ford that NO even advanced, electronics engineer type of tuners can figure out how to 'write it out' of the programs/maps?

 

[spoon]

In the past hour I have done nothing but reading up on the FRPP B-spec racing ABS module part number M-2C405-FAB. It seems as though this module takes care of TVC completely, while at the same time providing a rewritten racing ABS program. In short, this is what we want, while still maintaining ABS functionality.

I would rather not brute-force my way into it by removing fuses or unplugging stuff, and boy do I wish it was something as easy as having a local Accesstuner wizard simply commenting out a line of code.

McRib 1s Back guy says that it's a quick and easy to perform swap into his ST (even though Ford lists the part as fitting only 2011-2013 non-ST Fiesta), but I have not confirmed that it actually worked for him. I'm still researching. I hope there's a happy ending.

 

[spoon]

Seems like that MotoIQ car (supposedly using the B-spec ABS module) might be the same car that McRib 1s Back guy is building? Anyway, I found the end of a thread where the guy didn't even use it! I'm not even sure he even installed it.

In the end, he ended up unplugging some airbag/restraint harness in the center console and got the TVC go go away while still maintaining stock ABS functionality. He probably got some other stuff to go away that were unintended but he doesn't elaborate.

I'm not sure I really want to do that.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^PLEASE let us know if you discover any more about this, as I also would consider that module since I want to retain ABS at all times, and might want the TVC/ESC/etc. able to be restored for BAD weather conditions (YEAR 'round driven car) with just a module removal.

 

[Siestarider]

Seems like that MotoIQ car (supposedly using the B-spec ABS module) might be the same car that McRib 1s Back guy is building? Anyway, I found the end of a thread where the guy didn't even use it! I'm not even sure he even installed it.

In the end, he ended up unplugging some airbag/restraint harness in the center console and got the TVC go go away while still maintaining stock ABS functionality. He probably got some other stuff to go away that were unintended but he doesn't elaborate.

I'm not sure I really want to do that.

I followed that build for months and was just flat when the Ford Racing Module would not work. There are some threads about this on here, I suspect if there is an electronic answer it will be new information from Ford Racing.

 

[Kazz]

Without electronic interference, the only way to minimize it would be to try not to use the accelerator as an on/off switch. Easy on the throttle, easy off. It's a much smoother, and actually, quicker way to drive. It's very important in autocross. Act like there's an egg under the go pedal. You will end up with more brakes, more tires, and quicker times.

 

[spoon]

I appreciate that, but we are not even clear yet on if TVC operates on wheel spin or on other parameters. Personally, I think the system operates on wheel speed difference and a yaw sensor or something. Can anyone confirm which is the correct case?

My inputs are smooth, no worries there. And yes this happened on a wet day so there indeed was some wheel spin. But frankly, I find it ridiculous that the driver has to modify their driving style anyway just to avoid frying their brakes and wheels. I mean, doesn't that sound stupid?

What's the next suggestion... Don't drive this car on a wet track because at any hint of wheel spin you will fry the brakes and wheels and cost thousands of dollars worth of damage to your car and its components? I mean, am I the only one that finds that ridiculous?

I want this damn TVC out of my life.