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Thank You Ford for destroying the Fiesta ST. RIP 2014-17

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Thread Starter #101
Sounds more like a "best case scenario" than a better example. [:)] While there are some exceptions, in general Noodles is right in that regard.

One of the exceptions is when one plans to resale the vehicle within three or five, maybe seven years. Obviously the more you can get back on it, the less you'll have to roll into the next vehicle loan.

The other good example of where resale value comes into play, is if a wreck occurs. You're a little less likely to be upside-down on the value of the vehicle and insurance is less likely to "total" it, versus repair it. In the event the company decides to total the value, a higher aftermarket value will fetch a higher return. That will be more money down on the replacement. (but still a big fat net loss none-the-less)

As to whether the Fiesta ST in nearly sixty years time, will ever be anything like that best case scenario, we really really doubt that. I suspect it will ultimately be as valued as the 1.8L Ford Escort GT is today. I suspect they're able to squeeze more out of these engines, in part due to their "low friction" design elements.[/QUOTE


"1.8L Ford Escort GT" When is the last time they created an entire national rally circuit just for a Ford Escort GT? Those two cars are NOTHING a like. The FIST is a revolutionary car and it could have been more had Ford chose to drive its performance further forward.
 


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Ford has a hot little hatchback called the Focus ST. Why would they make a second car that is almost a mirror copy just a little smaller?

Aren't we glad they did!

Maybe a FiRS would work for them!
Really? The Focus ST is archaic and has been replaced by the FIST everywhere. They even chose to replace it at the national rally circuit and even Ken Block's team switched over years ago. The Focus ST is just to much of a porker. It's a daily driver not a high performance back roads burner like the FIST.
 


Intuit

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"1.8L Ford Escort GT" When is the last time they created an entire national rally circuit just for a Ford Escort GT? Those two cars are NOTHING a like. The FIST is a revolutionary car and it could have been more had Ford chose to drive its performance further forward.
Are you sure?
The Ford Escort is an economy vehicle. The GT merely upgraded the engine, suspension, wheels and some aesthetics.
The Ford Fiesta is an economy vehicle. The ST merely upgraded the engine, suspension, wheels, brakes and some aesthetics.
Sound familiar?
As stated, whether the Fiesta ST in nearly sixty years time, will ever be anything like your best case scenario, we really really doubt that.

This is a pretty nice rally build by the way...
http://www.feoa.net/threads/rally-escort-gt-build.84566/
 


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Thread Starter #104
Are you sure?
The Ford Escort is an economy vehicle. The GT merely upgraded the engine, suspension, wheels and some aesthetics.
The Ford Fiesta is an economy vehicle. The ST merely upgraded the engine, suspension, wheels, brakes and some aesthetics.
Sound familiar?
As stated, whether the Fiesta ST in nearly sixty years time, will ever be anything like your best case scenario, we really really doubt that.

This is a pretty nice rally build by the way...
http://www.feoa.net/threads/rally-escort-gt-build.84566/
Dude when you upgrade the engine, suspension, wheels and brakes there is a pretty big difference. Plus that argument can be made with any manufacturer or almost any car out there. Besides you forgot about the chassis. There are numerous variations between the chassis on a ST and vanilla. The ST has smaller ARB, different Twist Beam, the bolt pattern holes are different in various places all over the sub frame, bushings, powertrain, master cylinder, etc.

You would spend an insane amount of $ if you were to attempt to swap every single part to make a vanilla an ST.
 


jmrtsus

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Ford WRC team uses Fiesta......Focus team does Rallycross. Focus outsells Fiesta by a wide margin, far from dead!


Andreas Bakkerud earned the Ford Focus RS RX six podium appearances, three wins, and finished third overall in the 2016 Drivers? Championship.
 


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Ford WRC team uses Fiesta......Focus team does Rallycross. Focus outsells Fiesta by a wide margin, far from dead!


Andreas Bakkerud earned the Ford Focus RS RX six podium appearances, three wins, and finished third overall in the 2016 Drivers? Championship.
WRC vs Rallycross seriously? Not even remotely in the same class. And they actually created a 2WD nationally rally class just for the FIST it was so good. Not to mention you can't use the majority argument for any argument. There are more fat people in America so of course the FOST is going to be a more popular DD, but you would also have to put 2 massive linemen in the back seat of a FIST to even come close to the difference in weight between the two. Look at Europeans much thinner and more athletic builds and look what they prefer. The FIST. Just sayin. And I'm American too.
 


jmrtsus

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nQUOTE=cctman;220062]WRC vs Rallycross seriously? Not even remotely in the same class. And they actually created a 2WD nationally rally class just for the FIST it was so good. Not to mention you can't use the majority argument for any argument. There are more fat people in America so of course the FOST is going to be a more popular DD, but you would also have to put 2 massive linemen in the back seat of a FIST to even come close to the difference in weight between the two. Look at Europeans much thinner and more athletic builds and look what they prefer. The FIST. Just sayin. And I'm American too.[/QUOTE]

The EU market is not even close to the US market. They are taxed on displacement and pay much more for gas....right now gas in Italy is about $6.50 a gallon. So, $70 a fill-up? As to the change to the Fiesta in WRC you will find the explanations at the Ford performance site, change in rules. Focus sales has nothing to do with "fat people"........OMG. Have you spent any time in Europe much less driven there? I have and if you think all European are skinny I got a bridge to sell you. Why do you think 5-600 cc engines have been common in Europe for 60 years and it has zip to do with waistlines. My first car was a 1959 Fiat 600D. It all has to do with sales, marketing and needs, and since the Fiesta holds the records for sales in its segment I tend to think Ford knows what they are doing. If you do a little research on what it takes just for the EPA certifications on a car you will see why Ford cannot make a Fiesta RS for the US market nor the world market.. Add to those costs the crash testing, design, engineering drawings, production line robotics programming and training, the supply side parts production, parts distribution, maintenance manuals, dealer training and the cost of stocking parts for 20 years or so. And there are a hundred more to add to the list. So, as Ford has said there will be no RS Fiesta......no matter how much some people want one you will have to build it yourself. If Ford could make money they would build it, they are after all in business to make money.
 


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"The seventh generation Fiesta is still based on Ford?s global B-car platform, but on top of the tweaks received by the standard car to improve grip, plus the new model?s wider track, the ST?s chassis has been further tuned by Ford Performance."

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/fiesta/97192/all-new-2018-ford-fiesta-st-revealed-specs-pictures-and-video

If handling is indeed better with the same weight and more power...it could be a huge winner!
 


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...The Lotus Elise shouldn't even cost that much to be honest but at least they had the right idea.
You should read up on the Elise/Exige construction methods used and the materials used and you'll understand where the cost comes from.
 


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You should read up on the Elise/Exige construction methods used and the materials used and you'll understand where the cost comes from.
That may be, but the TOY engines do not justify their cost, and if I had the coin for one, that would be the first thing out of those cars. ;)
 


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That may be, but the TOY engines do not justify their cost, and if I had the coin for one, that would be the first thing out of those cars. ;)
Yeah, again, the Toyota engine has nothing to do with the cost of the Elise/Exige...in fact, the car IS affordable BECAUSE of the Toyota engine. I am absolutely baffled that anyone would dog on that engine in that car as it's literally perfect...crazy, but to each their own.
 


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Yeah, again, the Toyota engine has nothing to do with the cost of the Elise/Exige...in fact, the car IS affordable BECAUSE of the Toyota engine. I am absolutely baffled that anyone would dog on that engine in that car as it's literally perfect...crazy, but to each their own.
Like I said IF, I had the coin for one of those cars (since to me, they are UN-affordable even with your beloved "perfect" power plants in them), something MUCH more powerful would go into it.

Some do not believe that EVERY/ANYthing which comes from the Nippon Giant is the absolute 'epitome of perfection', just because it is the popular opinion of the masses (which I think is "crazy" and "baffles" me to no end). [nono]
 


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Some people like reliability and balanced power and handling. Some look only at quarter mile and zero to sixty times.
IF I paying that much for a car, I want it ALL! [driving]

If I wanted a 'momentum' type car, I would get a current MX-5, or used S2000, for less than HALF the cost.[wink]

Besides, there are plenty of other power plants BESIDES everyone's beloved TOYota I-4s/V-6es which ARE "reliable", contrary to mass public opinion.
 


M-Sport fan

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WHY does it necessarily HAVE TO BE a Nippon company's engine to everyone on here, are OUR current engines that horrific to all of you?? [dunno]
 


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WHY does it necessarily HAVE TO BE a Nippon company's engine to everyone on here, are OUR current engines that horrific to all of you?? [dunno]
I said that partly in jest.

But considering Lotus started using the Toyota motors in 2005, what were the American alternatives at the time? I can think of the supercharged 2.0L from the Cobalt SS and the turbo 2.4L from the SRT4.

One also has to consider supply chain in the UK, which I imagine Toyota having the upper hand in that regard.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
 


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IF I paying that much for a car, I want it ALL! [driving]

If I wanted a 'momentum' type car, I would get a current MX-5, or used S2000, for less than HALF the cost.[wink]

Besides, there are plenty of other power plants BESIDES everyone's beloved TOYota I-4s/V-6es which ARE "reliable", contrary to mass public opinion.
very true, the 4g63 was a great engine
 


M-Sport fan

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very true, the 4g63 was a great engine
...as was/is the GM Ecotec as used in their domestic models/Opels/Vauxhalls (yup, DESPITE Top Gear's HATRED of them!!), and in the Caterham Super 7s. [wink]
AGAIN, it does not HAVE TO come from an import/Nippon manufacturer as so many on here (and ALL of the JDM YO!, import only fanboyzz) insist it must.
 


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